Two Minute Trader System Review

| October 11, 2016 | 315 Replies

Product Name: 2 Minute Trader

Author: The ‘Markiteer’ team

Company Name & Contact Details:
Markiteer Ltd – a subsidiary of Waverley Media Limited
Waverley Farm,
Waverley Lane,
GU9 8EP, 


BRAND NEW SYSTEM reveals how in literally just a couple of minutes a day USING ONLY YOUR SMARTPHONE, you can ‘cream off’ around £500 to £1,000 every month TAX-FREE from the horses WITHOUT knowing a thing about racing or EVER having to watch it!!

In fact, the best part is, the profits are made long before any horse even starts to run!!!

Price: £79.96 every month

Money Back Guarantee: 30 days

What Do You Get?

– Horse Racing Trading service

Where to buy:

Brief Summary:

2 Minute Trader from Markiteer Ltd is a horse racing trading service. The team behind the service will do all the research to find suitable and potentially profitable horse racing trades and then they will send notifications to you via email telling you all the details you need to place the trade.

If you have any experience of Two Minute Trader, please share them below…


Tags: ,

Category: Betting, Horse Racing, Horse Racing Tipsters

Comments (315)

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  1. JohnU says:

    @ blue – reference your comment 27 th September which you say was awaiting moderation, – it still seems not to have been sorted ( maybe worth a reminder to Michelle). Would you care to give us the gist of what you were saying – would appreciate your view.

    @soccanut any chance you could epand on your 4 th October post please? I couldn t place itx in any context – sorry if ive missed the point! 🙂

    @ zagger many thanks for your comment, which i am sure will help some people.

    Very disappointing to not get reactions from any other what i might term ‘successful with PATe’ posters. Will see what additional comments are made over the next week or two, including hopefully the one from ‘blue’ and then decide whether to post again.

  2. soccanut says:

    re “awaiting moderation”

    Delays probably caused by the fact that since June, only the forums part of MMR has remained in existence.
    I spoke with Agora and they are going to e-mail me when they’ve investigated.

  3. mad one says:

    …..There have been no reviews on m.m.r for a month, has Michelle been put on the dole? 😉

  4. Maynard says:

    mad one, I was just going to say the same. It’s like a graveyard around here. WAKE UP MICHELLE!!

  5. aldo212 says:

    Holidays perhaps? Hopefully not out of business!

  6. TheBaker says:

    Thought that Mr Lowe’s latest offering – “2 Minute Trader” might have been put up for review.

  7. mad one says:


    ….yip, I seen that also, seen it on a trading fb site

  8. Tim Lowe says:

    @TheBaker & @mad one

    I’m no wiser than you on why there are tumbleweeds blowing through here and lots of posts awaiting moderation. There’s one of mine dated September 28th still pending.

    Not sure if I have the energy for a new thread here anyway!

    Please just be aware that the Facebook page you mention is NOT my page or in my control so people asking questions there are NOT talking to my company.

    Tim Lowe

  9. jerrycash says:

    Stay well clear of 2minutetrader guys. Lost a lot of money already using this system.Prices are nearly always worse than when you receive them the night before so you can’t make a profit in the exchange the next day, only a loss. I will not be using this anymore and just asked for a refund….stay well clear.

  10. Tim Lowe says:

    Utter nonsense. If you followed the instructions you’d be several hundred pounds in profit already. If you’d like to tell me what horses and prices I can easily show everybody what you could have achieved.

    Tim Lowe

  11. PEPPIDOG says:

    What has this thread got to do with 2minute trader?

  12. c19rta says:


    First day of 2mintrader banked me £200 profit on 50 stakes

  13. PEPPIDOG says:

    It would be interesting for you to list those winners c19rta re the odds you backed and layed at…..seeing as this thread is now hijacked I may as well join in.
    £200 is a great return. How many bets were placed and odds would be nice. Thanks

  14. erd2 says:

    This is not the only service doing this type of thing.

    Bookie Blowout by Mike C is the same.

    They work but as with everything and as stated by Tim you will lose some but win more if you stick at it.

  15. leestuartevans says:

    jerrycash can you give us call in the office at Waverley about 2 min trader. I’ve had a lot of users making very large returns this week , but I’ve also spent time on the phone with people who THINK they have read the manual but haven’t really. I’m more than happy to spend some time on the phone so you can get this right. On £50 stakes in the first week we’ve made more than £500 and some users made much much more. We’ve also only had 3 losing trades out of 24 signals in our first week.

    erd2 Bookie blowout is similar in concept but different in the way it chooses horses. Also bookie blowout has little finesse with the horses chosen and they can often be at high odds which flag you up very fast as an arber with bookies, 2 min trader follows the ‘mug punter’ pack and is designed to cleverly keep you below the radar from the bookies. As a case in point I’m 5 months in with one bookkeeper that I bet more than £100 per night with every night and yet they gave me a free bet yesterday for no reason at all so they clearly still see me as a mug punter.

    For those that are super curious I’m posting a video later on the the member site of me showing how I will be teaching users to turn losing trades into winnning trades just before the off of the race. Last night I videoed a £17 loss trade becoming a £7 win, an advanced method we will be teaching members once they are confident with this trading method.

  16. leestuartevans says:

    Tim Lowe thinks its not very fair for us to start discussing this product on an unrelated thread so he is going to ask MMR if they can create one for 2 Min Trader.

    In the meantime I thought Id save everyone a lot of time reading through the inevitable 200 comments that happen when a new product comes out from a select few users that try to unpick something and prove it cant possibly work before actually trying it out themselves ( ahem Tony Langley Football Hedging) and cut to the chase on the areas that some users on here will decide will be an issue with this product . I’ve had lots of queries from users and for the benefit of all I thought Id share the Q and A we’ve had so far.

    Liquidity is not an issue and we often see at least one bookie still offer best price 90 mins after we signal a trade. those with losing trades have failed to follow the rules and backed at lower prices ignoring the manual and videos out of laziness to not go the bookmaker/ bookmakers we tell them to in the email.

    Liquidity is not an issue on the exchange the next day , we give users a 2 to 5 hour cash out window and there is usually £150k plus matched in this timeframe.

    We give extensive rules to avoid being gubbed , something very few matched betting products do these days, in particular we are often backing horses that are favourites when the exchange offers better value ! for a lot of reasons that are made clear in the manual we do a superb job of giving users a long term product that avoids limited accounts rather than the up front fee and run type arbing products that get you gubbed in a matter of weeks.

    we do not rely on free bets to make our profits

    we do not back on the exchange the night before because the liquidity is ludicrously weak and you avoid the safety net of best odds guaranteed with the bookies should the horse drift.

    users with previous betfair experience are skim reading the manual because they think they know what they are doing . Users with no prior betfair experience have definitely done the best this week because they learnt from scratch and read the manual in full.

    do not use betdaq or smarkets they are too weak in liquidity and betdaq are owned by ladbrokes who will flag you as an arber and then tell the other bookies

    amazingly we are regulalry backing with paddy power and laying with the betfair exchange despite them being the same company . We expected Paddy to gub us the moment we tried with them but instead the opposite happened. Our belief here is the corporate decision that an arber like me makes betfair over £200 a month in commission and money money is either in their betfair bank account or their paddy bank account which is a win win either way. This is a very unusual and new situation to see and i now suspect paddy power do not tell other bookies who the arbers are for fear of losing so much exchange commission if they get shut down.

    do not back with betfair sportsbook and then cash out or try to lay with the exchange youll simply get your sportsbook account limited ( and yes i know this from all the different ways we spent testing this product to the limit this year pre launch)

    Use your smartphone and not your PC or laptop. use a web browser on your phone NOT an app and never accept cookies on your phone. VPS , hide my arse Ghosrty etc etc simply flag you up as someone hiding your IP, bookies aren’t stupid and are instantly suspicious.

    stakes are limited to a max of about £100 for sensible reasons , and I trade daily with a £500 overall bank and £50 stakes. Despite this you can definitely make £500 to £1000 or more per month PROVIDED YOU FOLLOW THE RULES.

    the product does not pick the selections in the same way as bookie blowout or any other arbing back to lay horse product out there . We use some very very clever software we developed that monitors betting activity online at all the major bookmakers and looks for volume of bets early on the night before as an indicator of a bet that will steam all day the next day . we get this right 70% of the time.

    its utter rubbish to say that only a few bets the night before will push a bookie price down. I have extensive knowledge from 2 insiders at 2 major bookies ( who work there now not anecdotal stuff from the glory years a few years back when bookies actually ran a balanced book) . bookies often run sportsbook as a loss these days and regularly run unbalanced books. check their annual reports. Its all about the casino and slots these days and they use the betting to feed in new customers. There is a laughable myth among arbers that betting the night before is a big no no. Its rubbish. the reality is that our members are betting on a favourite the night before not any old horse. We are simply lost in the throng of other gamblers. Furthermore if bookies banned everyone betting the night before on a favourite they would have no customers. remember bookies lay out exposure these days on the exchange if they feel too unbalanced.

    The second myth that needs exposing is the ‘ spread your bets around a bookie so you dont get gubbed myth ‘ This one is also rubbish . If you bet reasonably regularly for the same stakes each night with a bookmaker on favourites what you are actually doing is looking like a regular gambler that never shops around for price . If you only use a bookmaker every now and then you are MORE likely to be gubbed because you look like a savvy gambler looking for best price. I have only two main favourite bookies i do almost all my bets with …. and neither are limited .

    The argument that you’ll get gubbed for always getting better price than SP is also flawed. This week of 24 selections 6 have gone on to win at HIGHER SP.. and thats just the winners. Our members are getting in and out on a steaming horse before it readjusts before the race to the price the last minute gamblers are actually happy with . many many favs actually drift considerably pre race.

    So all in all…. We’ve spent a lot of time behind the scenes making a very very robust product that gives you a long term opportunity for trouble free unlimited betting provided your follow the rules to the letter. Given the low monthly cost and the 100% moneyback guarantee why not give this product a try for a few weeks and see for yourself? We’ve seen some monster profits this week for users including a belter of a day yesterday where one guy I was on the phone with made around £600 profit from three £100 stakes.

    finally due to the nature of best odds guaranteed im getting users claiming a trade was a losing trade when they havent read the manual properly and not checked what they actually won in their bookie accoutn against what they thought they had won. In one case a user I spoke to who said he had a number of losses and was overall down was actually £300 in profit and didnt even realise due to the BOG payouts.

    You can find the product easily searching online. Hopefully we can continue a great discussion on a relevant thread and in the meantime current members can get hold of me by contacting Waverley on email or phone if they need any help or have any questions .

  17. PEPPIDOG says:

    Ok Tim. On the thread now. Thanks for the link. Will be looking at this thread over this week and see if any others have an opinion. But I think, with the money back guarantee that is in place, then there should only be small losses if the thing goes south. Looking at the claimed returns though I can see me jumping in soon as an average of £20-£30 per day for a few minutes work cannot be sniffed at

  18. TheBaker says:

    Received the mailshot and watched the video. Unable to comment on the quality of the selections (no reason to doubt them) but the first question I asked myself was – “For how long will it be possible for susbcribers to get bets on when the chosen bookie(s) twig on to the fact that they are “arbing”?” It might well be that the service provider gives advice about “staying under the radar” but other, similar services (Profit Maximiser etc.) have well documented accounts of subscriber’s accounts being closed or seriously limited. If there is a new way to regularly get bets of, say, £50 on with Bet365 then good luck to all.

  19. Tim Lowe says:


    I believe the answer to your question is in my reply on another thread where I said:

    “It is incredibly simple to use and PROVIDED YOU READ THE MANUAL AND FOLLOW THE INSTRUCTIONS TO THE LETTER there is no reason for anything to go wrong.

    People worry about their bookie accounts getting gubbed. We tested so many variables on this and used people who work for the bookies to guide our research, since when we have not lost a single account in 5 months of using the system practically daily and the best part of 400 trades.

    We are backing favourites or near favourites the night before and laying off the next day at the exchange.”

    One of the key things here which differentiates us from other apparently similar systems is the use of horses which will already have a lot of interest in them and thus a lot of money on them rather than a load of money suddenly turning up on an outsider for no apparent reason, other than an arbing opportunity.

    Tim Lowe

  20. c19rta says:

    On it for about a week now I’m about 300 up after today’s selections. Mainly due to BOG. I seem to be able to get 13 quid profit due to odds dropping on one horse but lose 6 quid each on the other 2 hoping for a BOG to provide some profit. Will report back after a month or so. Not complaining about BOG though! 50 stakes with 365 only. It’s the only bookie I have left that isn’t promo banned

  21. PEPPIDOG says:


    So are you saying you are only winning one in three? Is it only BOG that get’s you the profit?. Not exactly what it says on the tin then?

  22. Tim Lowe says:


    Would it be possible, just once, for people on here, you in particular, to investigate and consider before jumping to conclusions and sniping from a position of ignorance?

    This product, so far, is BETTER than it says on the tin.

    Several things to consider, it’s 10 days since the first trades were placed and you cannot look at, in c19rta’s case, one week’s figures and say that is statistically representative of what will happen over time.

    We don’t know how many trades he’s taken but if it’s 4 then so what, but if it’s 20 then he MUST have made a mistake somewhere because I can tell you that in week one we had 27 selections of which 23 were winning trades. These are another forum’s independent figures although mine are the same.

    The most common mistake is people taking the back bet at lower odds than recommended and then struggling to make money with the lay.

    I would also remind you that the tin said to expect to make £500-£1000 per month (of which BOG is clearly a factor we expected and take account of) and c19rta says he’s made £300 in a week so, regardless of anything else, that is BETTER than the tin says.

    @c19rta – Please call Lee in my office (01252 784390) because unless you’ve only taken a few trades you should be winning more times than you say you are.

    Tim Lowe

  23. PEPPIDOG says:

    Oh behave man. What the hell is wrong with you. You sell this product. I look to see by asking those that have taken the plunge some questions about how it works and performs. Asking you I only get one point of view…and a complete biased one obviously. By asking others I get a viewpoint from the other side so that I can then make a balanced informed decision as to whether to sign up or not.

    So please Mr Lowe, let us on a review site communicate with each other to get a honest view rather than you keep butting in with your sales crap every time you get threatened on here by people wanting to know the truth. Get it?

    Good God man… take a break

  24. rinti says:

    Mr. Lowe and Mr. Lee,

    can I start with a 100 bank and for 1 month following ALL the selections make enough to cover subscription and actually some profit.

    Also are you confident you can replicate the results from the trial and in the future this will continue to make money.

  25. rinti says:

    Also forgot do you need to use BOG bookmaker or as long you get the asvised price it does not need to be BOG?

  26. Tim Lowe says:


    Actual results, fully detailed results in fact are hardly ‘sales crap’.

    What is ‘wrong with me’ is that you don’t ask questions. You snipe from the sidelines and make ludicrous and unpleasant observations. You now talk of ‘taking the plunge’. That massive £35 plunge which c19rta took and he’s only made £300 in his first week.

    As for me ‘butting in’ on a review site, everybody is entitled to have their say, not just the people you want to hear from. On which point you might just think about the economics of running such a site.

    I can promise you that constant moaning from the same old names is the death knell, not the lifeblood.

    Tim Lowe

  27. Tim Lowe says:


    You can easily cover the subscription in a month if you took a decent number of the selections. You would not have to take all of them. As I recall, we only had one or two big BOG payouts during testing and have been fortunate to have a lot more since we launched which does make it even nicer but you don’t need BOG to make a profit. It’s just rather nice to have it if you can.

    Tim Lowe

  28. MagnumPI says:

    regards the mobile phone thing do you have to run this off data or is wireless ok?

  29. PEPPIDOG says:

    For goodness sake Tim. Go sit in the corner and have a word with yourself.
    You claim I don’t ask questions? That is exactly what I am doing. They are just questions you do not like. I just choose not to ask them to you but from and unbiased standpoint. I see nothing wrong with that so please give it a rest. I am only looking for clarity on this product and that not to come from tthe “markiteer* himself. Something wrong with that?
    As you say, everybody is entitled to their say. So please let others have theirs and stop having a pop at them when they do and if they do not fit in with what you wish to see written here. It just maybe Timothy that not everybody agrees with you for whatever reason and review sites like this allow us to discover the reasons why, if any.
    Now hopefully you will let this rest and allow people to discuss this with an investigative nature. From my previous posts you will see that I can see that this could very well have legs, assuming that your software can select thse particular horses. Let us now please be able to just ask questions from those that have purchased. Let them give an honest appraisal without you trying to sell it over and over again. We understand it, some of us think it could be well good. Please let us now discover for ourselves. Ok? Jeesh

  30. cwilliams says:

    Seeing as this thread has turned into the usual slanging match between Tim & those usual culprits who want to slag off every product that he produces, let me give my views.

    I’ve been using the selections for a short while &, in my opinion, this works. I plan on producing a review video on my blog soon.

    If you aren’t prepared to spend even one month’s subscription payment (and, for a product from Tim, £35 per month is an absolute bargain!) and use the method yourself, then don’t bother with it & go off and find some other thread to pollute with your negativity.


    You don’t seem to realise that it is posters like you that has caused MMR to effectively stop reviews. I’ve mentioned before on another thread that this site would not exist if MMR did not make money from the products they review. Threads that are simply full of criticisms by people who aren’t users of the product are of no value. And that’s why earlier posts by mad one & maynard are quite correct when they note that reviews have dropped to near zero.

  31. Tim Lowe says:


    The objective is to give the bookies as little information about yourself as possible so the ideal is to use the data connection on your phone.

    If you are going to a wifi that is different from any you have ever used for a bookie in the past then its fine.

    So let’s say you moved house and haven’t bet since then, that wifi would be fine BUT if you have had every bookie account known to man connected from your current home wifi then it may well have been logged and is best avoided.

    If that were the case then you could usually change your IP address by turning off your router overnight (they cache for a few hours). Check it easily by searching on Google for ‘what’s my IP’ before and after you turn the router off overnight.

    If it doesn’t change then you may have a fixed IP address and can ask your ISP to change it for you.

    None of it is difficult and frankly shouldn’t be necessary were it not for bookies being loath to let people make money but currently it’s what we have to do!!

    Tim Lowe

  32. PEPPIDOG says:


    So you suggest we just blindly take Tim’s word for everything? Sorry but that ain’t gonna happen fella.

    A review is a review. Not just a thread where someone can just make claims that cannot be challenged and investigated. I have only asked questions on here to c19rta as he is involved personally. I have not come on here to criticise nor to be shot down by Tim and yourself by wanting to find out more. If you do not ask you do not find out. I am not sure what part of that some people just don’t get

    However, seeing as you asked so nicely I will not comment anymore on here and wait to see the review you post. Coming from an unbiased viewpoint I look forward to it

    However, in parting I would just like to say I meant no negativity. Merely to dig down and get to the nitty gritty as to whether the system would provide enough return for the effort

    I sincerely wish all that are involved good luck

  33. pabrmu says:

    I,ll add my tuppenys worth.
    I signed up on 1/10 and have traded all selections since then, which number 36.Of these, there have been 9 minus trades,which is above the percentage claimed.
    I am only paper trading and the nominal profit stands at £263. This includes 1 BOG of £102 and 1 of £25.
    This is trading at £50 back bets.
    This dosen’t seem as good as some on here, but I am pleased with it.
    The only point I will stress is you really have to be quick when you receive the emails as the prices do not stay as quoted for long.
    I think that I will also need a bit more help with the reduction factor, but will contact Lee soon.
    I also have to state that Lee has already broadcast a new video that will very much help cut down losses, so this is an ongoing thing.

  34. PEPPIDOG says:

    At last. Excellent pabrmu. Many thanks

  35. Tim Lowe says:


    Regarding BOG etc, I have just done a full review of all selections so far.

    Firstly, as the manual says, BOG is of course an integral part of the system but it’s not why it is profitable, it simply makes it more profitable – in other words it’s the icing on the cake.

    You may expect plenty of BOG wins since we are picking favourites and near favourites. Across every selection we have ever made both in testing and since launch, we have about one in three races where the horse we have chosen to trade has won the race.

    During testing we only had 6 BOG wins, i.e. 6 occasions where a trade MIGHT have made a small loss if the horse had not won the race.

    I say MIGHT because you may have cashed out for a profit earlier in the day and then the price may have drifted out afterwards or the price may have drifted early on and the BOG effectively turned a small loss into a big win.

    It’s impossible to say which would happen to any particular users BUT if we assume ALL BOG payouts are losing trades then instead of £1,868 we only won £1,427 over 327 trades in 4 months.

    If I redo the strike rate removing the BOGs I get 68.25%.

    Since we launched this product almost 2 week’s ago we have had an unusually large number of BOG wins which have made the figures much better than we advertised was possible. We have several theories on why this might be but all I will say is that it would be wise not to rely on it always being that way.

    We have advised 41 trades so far and as of this moment two are still waiting to be cashed out but look to be winning trades at present.

    We’ve had 8 BOGs in those 2 weeks so we are pretty good at picking horses which will win races at highish odds!!

    However, looking at facts so far, BOGs only happen when the price drifts AND the horse wins, apparently unexpectedly given the high price, so again, some people will have cashed out for a profit early in the day and some people will have waited until closer to the race and perhaps cashed out for a loss or smaller profit.

    We have had 5 losing trades and 8 BOGs. If we assume that all BOGS would have lost (which is not true but is the only logical assumption) then our strike rate so far is 68.29% which is close enough to the test results of 68.25% for me to say that the selection criteria is working exactly as expected and sold.

    If I remove all BOG profits then we still have a profit of £146.65 with £50 stakes after less than 2 weeks and with 2 trades today yet to cash out.

    Total possible profits to date including those BOGs with £50 stakes is £721.13 so everything is as expected and advertised except we’ve had way more BOGS than previously which has made (almost) everybody happy!

    Tim Lowe

  36. pabrmu says:

    When I said that the 9 minus trades were above the percentage claimed, I meant to say that this represents a better than the percentage claimed, if you see what I mean!!

  37. Tim Lowe says:

    A Comment on Speed

    pabrmu points out that: “The only point I will stress is you really have to be quick when you receive the emails as the prices do not stay as quoted for long”

    This is correct, particularly on the first selection of the evening.

    We’ve been tracking the rate of descent of the prices and found that it is pretty much the case that the prices hold longer, the later the selection so the early ones fall quickest and the later ones fall slowest.

    What this means for users is that, mostly, if you miss the early ones you will still get a selection later which will hold its price for longer.

    Tim Lowe

  38. pabrmu says:

    When I said that the 9 minus trades were above the percentage claimed, I meant to say that this represents a better than the percentage claimed figure, if you see what I mean!!

  39. Tim Lowe says:


    Yes I do see as you’ve had a winning trade rate of (36-9)/36 so 75% wins which is better than I advertised which was 70.7%.

    Brilliant 🙂


  40. c19rta says:


    I will contact Lee mate. I have a log of when I started doing it and back all the horses that get emailed out bar one which I missed the other day. I only use 365 so some odds are .25 lower than others.

    The first one in today’s selection is a prime example of what keeps happening for me. Backed at 3s, 11.30am it was 2.7 so I put a lay in at 2.6 now fast forward an hour it’s 3.3 to lay.

    I’ll email Lee tonight anyway. Hoping for some BOG today!

  41. JK says:


    Which bookmakers are used for this service? The reason I ask this is because Bet365, Paddy Power, William Hill, Sky Bet, Ladbrokes and Betfred have all restricted my account. I only have a few accounts open such as Coral and Bet Victor so was wondering whether this would be worth doing for me?

  42. prutbrk says:


    Could I possibly ask a question based on your recent comment regarding using a phone to place bets therefore giving nothing away about yourself?
    Surely even using a phone the bookie knows all about you from details you gave when setting up the account?
    Would they not know just by the fact you have logged into your account? I am a little confused on this point. I have numerous accounts that I used doing Bonus Bagging but have laid dormant for a while. They would still know me though no matter how I logged in…would they not? Thank you

  43. Tim Lowe says:


    Coral and BetVictor are fine, the rest you mention we also use but obviously that’s no good for you. Friends/family maybe can help?


  44. Tim Lowe says:


    No, its not that they know your number, it’s whether or not they can use tracking software on you, which doesn’t load on phones but does on computers.

    Also, you don’t call them, you use the smartfone to log onto the internet and thus their websites so your phone is invisible to them.



  45. rinti says:

    A last question from me Mr. Lowe

    Do users know in advance and which time emails(selections) are sent so they can be prepared and act fast ?

    Or is it different every day

  46. prutbrk says:

    Sorry Tim. I must be a little thick as I am not just getting this. I was not meaning to call them. I meant when I log into my account they will straight away know who I am. Be it by pc or a mobile phone. I am not sure what they would be tracking also. Appreciate your help with this

  47. Tim Lowe says:


    Yes when you log in they know who you are BUT crucially, when you log in on your computer they install some software called iesnare which tells them by circuitous means) which OTHER bookies and maybe exchanges you have accounts with so they then know you have multiple accounts, how often you use them and so on.

    Iesanre is how they get around laws which prevent them just telling each other about their customer’s accounts.

    But iesnare does not install on your phone, so they only know you have an account with them.

    I hope this helps.



  48. Tim Lowe says:


    It is different everyday, as our software tracks activity not form, and they become suitable to trade, however never earlier than 6pm.

    Another good reason top use a smartfone as you will be best placed to get the early ones.



  49. prutbrk says:

    I see Tim. Thank you. However I think that could be a little late then if they have been snooping. Horse, stable door and bolted spring to mind

  50. Tim Lowe says:


    If you have not already had any issues with restrictions etc then there is a way to clear Iesnare from any computers and then you can move on with smartfone etc, relatively secure in the knowledge that you have escaped their attention.

    Tim Lowe

  51. prutbrk says:

    No restrictions that I am aware of. As I said. I only opened them to snipe the welcome bonuses. Have had a little history on the exchange but only used Bet 365 for some small hedging bets if things needed safegurding. But no bets over £20 and a maimum of 20 over a year period I would imagine.
    Ooops.. they aren’t reading these threads are they? 🙂

  52. RJM says:

    I have no problems with “iesnare”.

    There are ways to check and get rid of it if you have had the misfortune of one of our dear friends invading your privacy.

    Just search with your favourite search engine.

  53. g_w87 says:

    There has been some absolute sh1te sprouted in this thread already.

    When ever a trade takes place someone will gain money and someone will lose money. FACT.

    leestuartevans stated on the 7th of October at 11.09am

    ‘Liquidity is not an issue and we often see at least one bookie still offer best price 90 mins after we signal a trade.’

    That is purely because people are backing favourites at a higher price and most probably because of value in that selection. He then goes on to say

    ‘its utter rubbish to say that only a few bets the night before will push a bookie price down. I have extensive knowledge from 2 insiders at 2 major bookies ( who work there now not anecdotal stuff from the glory years a few years back when bookies actually ran a balanced book) . bookies often run sportsbook as a loss these days and regularly run unbalanced books. check their annual reports. Its all about the casino and slots these days and they use the betting to feed in new customers.’


    ‘we do not back on the exchange the night before because the liquidity is ludicrously weak’

    complete and utter bull. Why would bookmakers give away free money on unbalanced books? If said is true and a few bets won’t push bookmakers prices down then there must be a significant amount of money being placed on these selections. Hence, all the liquidity has been or is take on the exchange and the only liquidity available is through a bookmaker. They ain’t going to be there offering the same odds for a prolonged period of time when they know they have to reduce their liability and slash their odds – this is evident as their prices are reduced as you state. If they did leave their prices the same, they would leave themselves at a greater liability ( and also allow people to arb them the following day ) when the markets establishes itself the following day – as the markets on betfair are of greater representation of what the market believes shall win.

    Let me pose this question on here. How would you define what an ARB is to somebody who hasn’t a clue about betting?

    It would most probably be something like this
    ‘An arb is a selections of bets on all possible outcomes of an event where the odds guarantee profit, independent of the result/s.

    Using horse racing as an example, backing then laying a horse off – can be done seconds, minutes, hours or even days apart and going back to what I originally said that when a trade takes place someone loses money or someone gains money, it doesn’t take a genius to work out that when you’re placing a bet the evening before and laying it the following day that the bookmaker is the one losing money and you’re the one gaining their money does it? No that’s correct that’s what happens and bookmakers allow this because they run unbalanced books because they only care about the money they make from slot machines, casino game etc. also the fact they reduce their odds the evening before to stop this being done…

    I smelllll 5h1teeeeeeee!

    look at any professional trader, you can only win from value and when the bookmakers are giving it out, they ain’t going to let it continue. System is decent but you will eventually be restricted – some longer than others and a little bit of good advice for longevity of accounts but if longevity is 6 months then fair play.

  54. Tim Lowe says:


    You forget a couple of things, if you read the bookmaker’s end of year financial reports they let slip that they cannot always run a balanced book for a very simple reason.

    They HAVE to be competitive to get any punters to place bets with them and people look at Betfair as part of their comparison. As soon as money is matched in Betfair, no matter how stupidly, the bookies are faced with competing or not taking any money.

    They are saying that they no longer have odds compliers but instead track the online markets.

    An analysis of all bets to date shows that across all bookies we made an approximate 10% net loss and thus the profits were made in Betfair, not by taking money from bookies.

    However that is not the case by bookie or by months, in other words some months we win a lot with the bookies or one particular bookie and other months the reverse.

    Thus, overall we don’t attract their attention when betting on favourites and losing money to them.

    Tim Lowe

  55. c19rta says:

    Hasn’t been great so far this week.. I could count on one of my hands the amount of time odds dropped and I locked in a 10/20% profit – rest is BOG.

    First horse resulted in a £14.99 loss – similar to the 1st from yesterday.

    Will give it until the end of the month or the profit earned from BOG is wiped out.

  56. c19rta says:


    I would be interested to know in the “testing” period of how many horses actually dropped in price. Lee says to lay at 11am or up to an hour before the race. At 11am there is no money in the markets, less than 10k. Getting a 50 stake matched at that time ends up in a loss or breakeven. It is difficult to even get it matched when there is only 30 quid on the lay side, never mind if it was a 100 stake.

  57. Tim Lowe says:


    Have you spoken to Lee as we discussed because this isn’t right to he honest?

    That’s said this isn’t a 100% strike rate, it’s 70% and so far since launch we’ve had 46 trades of which 8 were losses so we are due some losers.

  58. Tim Lowe says:


    You need to put it on and wait. A snapshot at one moment is not an indication of anything. You really do need to speak to Lee as you shouldn’t be thinking this way 🙂


  59. Tim Lowe says:


    Over 4 months we did 327 trades. 220 of those dropped in price and made a profit as shown. In addition there were just 8 BOGS. We didn’t record the pre-race outcome of the 8 BOGS but anecdotallly we think that 3 or 4 turned a loss into a profit.

  60. c19rta says:


    No I haven’t, been too busy mate, will email him tonight. I’ll update my log tonight and send that to Lee as well.

    19k matched on the 17.50 race and the odds are 3.3 to lay, backed at 2.5 last night. This just seems to have been a regular occurrence since I have started and that was a week and a half ago.

    There has been around 3 or 4 BOGS since I have started so I guess we have got lucky if over 4 months you only had 8!


  61. jacob07072002 says:


    I agree, mate, I’m having exactly the same problem. It can’t be both of us, right?

  62. Tim Lowe says:


    You’d be surprised. You’re both FHS users and they seem to struggle the most.

    We take every trade ourselves and whilst you might think we have an advantage clearly we have none where the lay is concerned. Many, many people having zero issues so it will he easy to fix.

  63. Tim Lowe says:


    OK please do call him because it will be something simple. I see all the trades we do and it’s not a big issue for us.


  64. ribboco says:

    well here we go again ,nearly signed up yesterday will have to see how this pans out, But what can I do now to make some money, I know I will check out matt Houghton see if anything is doing there , I will now do my first lol, there done it now

  65. c19rta says:


    Any need for that FHS comment? I could write a lot about FHS and people struggling but I havent. Maybe because people only learned that tony did not take certain scores up like the emails told you to do. Why was this not put in the final versions, are we supposed to guess when to take 3-2/2-3/3-3 up?? We are now told to wait but nothing has ever suggested you to wait.

    This system does not need any brains to do. Back the horse sent out and lay it. Another 10 quid loss today. 500k matched 5 mins before the off on the 5.50 race where the price went from 3s to 2.2….

  66. c19rta says:

    Only learned this a month or two ago! Was supposed to say.

  67. Tim Lowe says:


    Nothing insulting meant by my comment. It was a truism as the people doing best are those who’ve no experience at all. Oddly those who should do it easiest seem to be the ones struggling at present.


  68. c19rta says:


    Just for the record I haven’t complained about struggling at FHS once.

    I’ll email Lee tonight with my log of trades anyway and he can see how I have done.

  69. jacob07072002 says:


    what’s the matter, Tim, don’t like criticism?

    If I wish to share my opinion, on here, with potential buyers, then that is my right. What I do not appreciate, as a paying customer of FHS and this, is you coming on here trying to belittle me.

    What c19rta says is absolutely correct, by the way.

  70. Tim Lowe says:

    @C19rta abd at @jacob07072002

    I have no idea what either of you are on about. It is true that the people who have had most issues with 2 minute trader are those already using FHS. No idea why but it’s fact. I have sausages nothing to belittle anybody. Suggest you read my words again.

  71. Tim Lowe says:

    Said nothing.

  72. c19rta says:

    Tim are you losing the plot? You commented on my post at 6.23 now you claim you have no idea what I am talking about….

    Whether I have FH or not, this system from Lee is very easy to understand to anyone who has done a lot of back and laying on horses. I assume that is something you have never done that in your life and you think I am doing it wrong

  73. Tim Lowe says:


    I am saying that having done a lot of it makes it easy to think you don’t need to read the instructions. Since most people are NOT getting poor results and you aren’t happy with yours, what do you think is the reason for that?

  74. jacob07072002 says:


    patronising, as well as belittling.

  75. Tim Lowe says:


    This works fine for most other people and people have made hundreds of pounds in the last 2 weeks. You and c19rta are complaining about it and suggesting it doesn’t work. I have offered help but you haven’t taken that offer and look like you want a row which I really don’t need for £35. I’ll refund you in the morning.

  76. c19rta says:


    I have read the instructions, this is nowhere near as complicated as FH. I have never said I am unhappy with my results – I am around £240ish up once I calculate the last few days but my point is this is from BOG winners. Only a handful of times has the horse lay price dropped like a stone to make 10% of stake.

    Which is why I asked the question earlier about how many drop in price on the exchange as I have not had many. And neither have the three people I have spoken to. It seems Jacob agrees with me as well so make that 4.

  77. PEPPIDOG says:

    I said I would not comment further but I apologise…. I just have to

    Tim… these people are not after a row from what I see. They are just saying that they have paid for this servise and are losing money. They have every right to do so. I think offering a refund is your way of getting rid of those that wish to offer an opinion

    @ cwilliams… before you kick off… don’t even go there saying this is negativity. You take any opinion that does not fit with yours as such. So give it a rest this time please

  78. c19rta says:

    Is your refund comment directed at me Tim? Very poor if so.

    I am not trying to start a row, I suggest you look in the mirror with your FH comment about these customers are the only ones who struggle. All I have done is pointed out not many horses have dropped in price yet you claim they have. It is there for everyone to see.. no row from me.

    I will email Lee shortly

  79. mermerus says:

    Would any of the three races today made a profit, and if so, at what time would the lay bets have been made?

    Also, can anybody tell me what FHS is?

    Many thanks.

  80. Tim Lowe says:


    I have offered to help you and suggested you call Lee. Officially there is no support with this as it is, as you have said, very easy to understand.

    However we have had a few people asking for help and Lee has been happy to do so and in doing so has noticed a disproportionate number of FHS users. Most have not read the manual properly or have not remembered that unlike FHS this is expected to lose 30% of the time. Unfortunately that is fact.

    You seem to have not read my comments in the way I meant them but I am simply not willing to allow this to develop into the stupidity that dogged FHS. This works incredibly well as you can see from posts here and in other forums and I don’t know why you are struggling but I don’t want to end up defending a product which so clearly works so I would prefer to refund unhappy people rather than spend my life rowing.

    There is nothing wrong with being in profit due to BOG as this is part of the system. Without it, taking ALL trades you would still be in profit but only what we advertised originally.

    Tim Lowe

  81. mad one says:

    …..this place is getting worse.

    …..This is similar to the basic dobbing strategy, *Google dobbing* a 2 year old can do it, punters have been doing it for years. Money for very old rope.

    …..What Timmy has done is made it easier for the stupid.

    …..No wonder most of you fail to make any serious money, you probably need instructions and videos to open your own front doors.

  82. Tim Lowe says:


    Please note how uninformed you are. People have indeed paid £35, which is refundable, and c19rta says that in a week and a half he’s made a profit of £240.

    I don’t want to get rid of people who offer an opinion. I just don’t want to spend my days arguing with people, especially when, for whatever reason, they’ve made 8 times the product cost in 10 days.

    Tim Lowe

  83. cwilliams says:

    @PEPPIDOG & all

    Let me inject some positivity into this thread which is yet again being taken over by the moaners!

    I made a profit on all 3 races today.

    Before everyone starts posting questions wanting every fine detail of what I did (sorry mermerus), then note that I will not be answering such questions – you’ll have to wait for my review.

    At the moment, I really like this service

  84. mad one says:


    …..Why on earth would you want to write a review on what is basically a market movers / dobbing strategy that could be explained in probably 3 sentences.

  85. cwilliams says:

    @ mad one

    You write:

    “you probably need instructions and videos to open your own front doors.”

    Oo! Now there’s an idea for my next video project!

    @ Tim Lowe

    Just out of interest – why did your post at 7.02 pm above contain the word “sausages”? Is this some sneaky subliminal marketing trick?

  86. Superchess says:

    When I did BookieBlowout I had some some really amazing results in the first few days including several 50%+ arbs; but it quickly fizzled out and when a few Rule 4s took effect it was clearly a non-starter. I`m a bit surprised that Rule 4 hasn`t been mentioned so far…

  87. c19rta says:


    I have told you I will email Lee, I am updating my spreadsheets now and will be sending them to him.

    Whether or not I’m a FH user it does not matter. I have read the manual and I do know that you won’t win all the time.

    The way you said about the only people struggling with this are FHS users is not a good way to go about things when you know A LOT of people struggle with FHS but this is not the thread and I am not interested in that as I think FHS works!

    I have not complained about being in profit with BOG. I would rather BOG than horses dropping in price if it was a couple a week!!

    Without BOG I would of made 12 GBP from the 6th of October to today the 13th of October. With BOG I have made 296 GBP. I am emailing Lee now and I will report back if I have made any errors that would change my results!

  88. c19rta says:

    @ TIM

    “I don’t want to get rid of people who offer an opinion. I just don’t want to spend my days arguing with people, especially when, for whatever reason, they’ve made 8 times the product cost in 10 days.”

    Where have I argued with you? you made a silly comment about people struggling with this are users of FH and they struggle with that too. Which was a dig lets face it but I am not interested in that.

    For now this is my last post I will speak with Lee to see what has happened.

  89. Tim Lowe says:


    Much as I’d like to suggest that muttering ‘sausages’ occasionly will result in increased sales, in reality I am in a restaurant using a Samsung phone which has a somewhat erratic auto spell correct!

    Tim Lowe

  90. c19rta says:


    I have just noticed your post. I would love to know how you made a profit on all three races?? I made a loss on two and a profit on one

  91. Tim Lowe says:


    I did not make an intentonal dig at anybody. Sorry if you read it that way.

    My answer regarding not arguing was not directed at anybody in particular, but was addressed specifically at PEPPIDOG by way of explanation of my position which he questioned.

    Tim Lowe

  92. c19rta says:


    I have emailed you and Lee a copy of my sheet.

    I did not come here to argue, or give bad reviewsis because I AM UP 296 GBP since using this system. I would just like to minimize my losses and boost the profits on the lays as well as enjoying the BOG winners which are very nice!

  93. carrbags says:

    Oooh, how the other half live. In a restaurant ordering sausages!

  94. Paul T says:

    If it’s one of the new Samsungs, you can cook your own sausages.

  95. mad one says:

    …..I had sausages tonight also as it happens. Sausages chips and spaghetti with a couple of rounds of bread. Washed down with a glass of apple & strawberry juice.

    …..Very nice it was too.

  96. rinti says:

    It’s interesting to see how Cwilliams made profit on all 3 races and c19rta only on one.

  97. g_w87 says:

    @ tim

    OH come on Timothy – you state ‘across all bookies we made an approximate 10% net loss and thus the profits were made in Betfair, not by taking money from bookies.’

    If this was the case then there are many people who wouldn’t have had their accounts limited from matched betting. People have their accounts with the bookmakers with a net loss but all money in exchange this is ALWAYS going to happen over time because the truer reflection of the odds are on betfair and every time you place a bet with the bookmaker you’re nearly always taking inferior odds. But guess what, when you don’t take inferior odds (value) you’re severely restricted.

    riddle me this Timothy;

    say you place a £100 bet at evens. It drifts to 1/2 and you lay it on betfair to guarantee profit (we’ll assume 0% commission for simplicity) Now out of who’s pocket has the money came from?

  98. g_w87 says:

    This system will work but for a very short period of time, this isn’t even hard to do. There are many FREE websites out there informing you of all the steamers – you may as well use these and take the liquidity from bookmakers.

  99. Tim Lowe says:


    The answer to your riddle is that it depends on whether your horse won or not, does it not.

    As always with people like you I am amazed that you think you know more about my numbers, without seeing them, than I.

    You believe that taking money from bookies gets you restricted. Ok, in which case ANYTHING you do which makes a profit will be short lived so you might as well do something profitable like my system and make as much as you can becasuse by your logic nothing works for long.

    So you do your thing and I’ll do mine and I’ll cerainly be happy with my results.

  100. TheGM says:

    @mermerus…Also, can anybody tell me what FHS is?

    Thank your lucky stars you don’t know.

    It is (was) a £2k loss recovery staking system being flogged by Mr. Sausage (aka Tim Lowe).


  101. pabrmu says:

    I would like to stress that I am not complaining as I fully understand that there will be losses, but am interested in how cwilliams made a profit on all 3 selections yesterday when I lost £12.83,£0.52 and £10.49 all to £50 (paper) stakes.
    I look forward to cwillimas review.

  102. c19rta says:

    Pabrmu – similar results to me and a few others yesterday so I am very keen to hear what he did as well!

  103. thebetengine says:

    Perhaps cwilliams is more of a risk-taker.

    It was certainly possible to make a profit on all three selections, depending on when you decided to get out of the trade.

    All the information to support this can be found on the Timeform results website.

  104. mad one says:


    …..If you are talking high and lows of prices on Timeform, then remember that includes in play.

  105. thebetengine says:

    Oh, I’m well aware that it includes InPlay – hence my comment about deciding when YOU (generic you!) want to exit the trade and how much of a risk-taker YOU are!

  106. g_w87 says:

    @ tim

    I thought I made it simple but looking back I may not have made it as clear as I thought, sorry, my bad. I think you’re a little confused from your response.

    Rather then say who’s pocket has the money came from – I should say where has the value came from?

    Another way to look at it is;
    Say a bookmaker issues you a free bet ( could be from matched betting techniques ) we have a free £25 bet. We then back a horse that is a steamer, following day we lay the horse at lower odds. Where has the value came from? Where is the money/profit coming from? Who is losing out?

    What about your numbers? I haven’t got a clue what ‘your numbers’ have to do with any of the points I have raised.

    I don’t think taking money restricts you from the bookmakers but I believe you do with your comments like ‘ we have lost 10% of our trades with bookmakers ‘ or something along the lines of this that give the illusion that this is okay for the longevity of this program.

    I think you’re trying to insult my intelligence by aiming assumptions about my activities and how I make my money.

    You’ll certainly be happy Tim, selling free information….

  107. Tim Lowe says:


    Since we NEVER use free bets in the usual sense of the word then this situation doesn’t occur.

    My point is simple, no bookie will be happy if he gives you back more than you give him over a period of time.

    So long as he a) believes you are giving him more than he gives you and b) you aren’t somehow taking money out of the market he believes to be his sole domain (i.e hurting another bookie so it might be his turn soon) then he is delighted to have you bet with him.

    He also needs to believe you are a mug and not playing a long game because he fears you one day taking all your money back off him.

    All the time you meet these criteria WHY would he not want your money?

    I am not trying to insult anybody’s intelligence, nor comment on your activities, given I have no idea what they are.

    I am saying, I don’t agree with you but you carry on doing whatever it is you do and I will carry on doing what I do. There is no need for conflict.

    Yes maybe people could do this themselves at no cost but the point is, most people don’t want to do all the research and develop their own methods…and then do all the research everyday. Much easier for my software to do it for them.

    We could all grow our own vegetables but few of us do, we shop in supermarkets and some of us even buy ready prepared vegetables or even, heaven forbid, ready cooked meals.

    One word tells us why – convenience.

    Convenience is like anything else, it has value and must be paid for.

    Tim Lowe

  108. prutbrk says:

    From what I am reading on other threads this site could be going soon and nobody from MMR have come on to deny it. So before it happens can I ask for an update for what this system did last week. Did it make anything like the same returns that it produced in it’s first week?
    I see already that some are claiming losses with this whilst others are making gains on the same races. I thought that they should have roughly the same outcome as you are backing and then laying the next day…or am I missing something here? I realise that the odds would vary based on the time you take them. But surely they should all produce roughly the same outcome would they not?
    Anybody’s opinion would be appreciated. Thanks in advance

  109. pabrmu says:

    Hi prutbrk,
    As mentioned before, I am only paper trading and am into my second week of this.
    My first week shows a profit of approx £222 on £50 stakes.
    The second week not so good, but still a profit of approx £38.

  110. prutbrk says:

    @ pabrmu

    Thank you for the reply. Whilst a £38 profit is still a profit and far better than a £39 loss it does seem that it isn’t quite performing as the author claims then? Let’s not throw baby out with the bath water though and see how it goes next week. Perhaps others had different ( worse or better ) results than you. I was tempted to sign up with this but although there is a money back guarantee, which is excellent, there is no refund on lost bets whilst testing it out. So hence the reason I am kindly asking those using it for a little feedback
    Much appreciated pabrmu

  111. leestuartevans says:

    would be useful for everyone I think if C19rta was kind enough to share with everyone my observations on his trades and results.

  112. prutbrk says:


    As you are, I believe, the creator of this system could you kindly confirm that your profits this week would mirror somewhere near those of pabrmu? Many thanks

  113. Tim Lowe says:


    Lee has left for the day but I have his spreadsheet and no his figures don’t mirror pabrmu.

    I am guessing this is because paper trading tends not to take advantage of the BOG payouts.

    Lee’s figures were a loss of 37p on the first day (a Friday), £6.45 on the first weekend (when you are advised not to trade until you know what you’re doing), £547.72 for week one, then £134.98 for the second weekend (shouldn’t be traded unless experienced though) and 133.95 last week.

    Tim Lowe

  114. Tim Lowe says:


    LOTS of important points.

    One simply cannot say, as one or two have ‘this doesn’t perform as the author says’ when you look at a week’s or even a month’s results.

    Over time all manner of things can happen, losing runs, winning runs, lots of BOGs no BOGS and so on.

    We had NO BOGs in August at all and almost no horses NOT winning their races so for people who think they can safely just do the lay part of the equation (as some have suggested) they would have gone bust that month.

    DITTO for just backing as we do pick a lot of winners, but NOT overall profitable, over time, if you just backed.

    I do believe we are having an exceptional number of BOGs at present, the average profit per trade in testing was under £6 (including losses) now it is nearly £16. I expect it to return to lower levels at some point.

    I also believe that some of our users are actually affecting the market at weak moments. For example, it is clear from our monitoring and emails to us that some people are completely disregarding the manual and doing the following:

    Attempting to back on the exchange the night before;

    Attempting to immediately cash out after backing;

    Attempting to cash out first thing in the morning;

    Attempting to cash out too close to the race or even ‘in play’;

    Attempting to use weaker exchanges like Smarkets;

    Backing at odds below those stated;

    It is also amazing how many people don’t realise they’ve made money because they forget to check all their accounts.

    People are becoming fixated on cashing out as early as they can which means the price hasn’t dropped and in fact they are so early that by laying they are actually applying upward pressure to prices because there is no money in the market.

    This means that bookies, who track Betfair, are raising back prices and so on, which may well contribute to the number of BOGs.

    However, I don’t imagine they will do this for very long as they will realise something has changed in the market.

    So enjoy it while you can!!!

    We are however looking at strategies to stop silly behaviour spoiling things for the majority (such as the man who’d never placed a bet in his life and put a £1,000 lay bet on an hour or so after he backed with £100 stakes on a raft of bookies he’d just opened accounts with).

    Then he emailed wondering why his lay wasn’t filled….

    Tim Lowe

  115. prutbrk says:

    Thank you Tim
    Not sure what you mean about experienced trading though as I thought it was just a question of back a horse at night then lay it before the race.
    Is there more to it then than mentioned in your statement above?

    “BRAND NEW SYSTEM reveals how in literally just a couple of minutes a day USING ONLY YOUR SMARTPHONE, you can ‘cream off’ around £500 to £1,000 every month TAX-FREE from the horses WITHOUT knowing a thing about racing or EVER having to watch it!!

    In fact, the best part is, the profits are made long before any horse even starts to run!!!

    What is it you class “experienced”? Does this involve in-play after all then?


  116. Tim Lowe says:


    NO, there is no more to it than that but SOME people don’t seem to be able to understand extremely simply concepts, so for example in my long list I talk about when people are trying to lay at the wrong times, i.e not in the time window given in the manual.

    Quite a lot of people are trying to lay much earlier OR becoming fixated with laying at 11am on the dot rather than at some point between 11am and an hour prior to the start of an afternoon race.

    For example, on Friday we had 7 selections, all of which won and of those winning trades one was a BOG as well. BUT Lee cashed them all out as the afternoon went on at a time when they were at the right prices to do so.

    Some people complained that they had several losing trades, which of course they shouldn’t have done. This was because they wouldn’t wait for the prices to move.

    The issue with the weekends is there is much less money in the Betfair markets so it takes longer/is harder to get lay bets filled, if you are inpatient as most people seem to be.

    Thus by ‘experienced’ I mean confident enough in what you are doing to wait for the prices to become what’s needed to make a profit.

    ‘Inexperienced’ people will most likely panic and try to cash out too soon.

    Tim Lowe

  117. prutbrk says:

    Ok Tim. Thanks for that

  118. gscippo88 says:


    I work and have to cash out at 12-1pm

    Is that an issue!? I can’t watch the market.

  119. rinti says:


    gscippo88 has a point here.

    The system is advertised as that you need couple a minutes and if you need to monitor the market for 3 hours let say to get the best price, it’s not couple a minutes anymore.

  120. Tim Lowe says:

    @gschippo88 and @rinti

    We suggest, for many reasons, using a smartphone for this which should make it the work of moments to check Betfair’s prices a few times.

    The manual is very clear on not just choosing a time but making sure you get a profitable price.

    Essentially the results so far have been better than expected but any deviation from the instructions will most likely reduce your profits.

    Tim Lowe

  121. rinti says:

    Ok, you also have a point 😀 Checking the prices on a smartphone does take only a few seconds.


  122. pabrmu says:

    @Tim Lowe.
    Hi Tim, can you explain your statement ” I am guessing this is because paper trading tends not to take advantage of the BOG payouts.”
    I like to think that I am carrying out Lees’ manual to the letter.I simulate placing the back bet with a bookie as soon as I can at the price Lee recommends,if possible.When checking the results, if the SP has gone up, this is the amount I calculate my wins or losses on, so I am taking into account BOG prices.

  123. Tim Lowe says:


    In which case I cannot understand why your results are different to ours.

    We do trade ours live at £50 stakes so I was searching for a reason why you might have got a different number and BOG seemed to be the answer.

    SP at Betfair varying from the bookie might be it, or maybe reduction factors which can make a big difference since bookies and Betfair do them a little differently.

    Otherwise no idea!!


  124. pabrmu says:

    Thanks Tim.
    Have emailed Lee with my results from 14/10.

  125. c19rta says:

    As Lee mentioned previously, I will share his email with also my replies to some of the points.

    I only did 2 horses in the last 3 days, two of which were BOG. Today is looking like a loss for me unless BOG again. I only backed three horses today two at the best price with 365 and one at the 2nd best price.

    For me using just one bookie I have done rather well out it due to BOG but even when I lay at different times I still have the same results.

  126. c19rta says:

    Hi c19rta

    Thanks for the information you sent me, its not really enough and is lacking your stake size and what time you cashed out each day but despite that I can draw some conclusions already from what I’ve seen .

    ———————– ^ 50 stake sizes – did not put the time I placed my lay bet.

    Its clear you’ve been dealt a tough hand to start with by only being able to back with bet365, our manual advises a top 5 bookies to get best price , but despite that I would say I do 70% of my bets through bet365 too and I favour them for a number of reasons, including BOG+ and because they are the only bookie to tell you in advance what RF they are applying which makes cashing out with non running horses super accurate.

    Its not clear what your stakes are but im guessing £50 . it would help if I knew , as would what time you cashed each one out.

    As a rule of thumb , and I would expect users that trade with betfair to understand this more quickly than newbies, if you see a market drifting between 11 and 12 then that trend is unlikely to change so the sooner you cash out the smaller your loss will be. Part of the area you can improve is to look at getting smaller losses, the wins will take care of themselves.

    Looking at your trades Im puzzled how you got Basem at 3 when the best price was 2.75 with bookies. Im also puzzled how you got Really Special at 3.5 when bet365 was at 3.25 and falling when we selected it. Im puzzled how you get Computable at 3.75 when it was at 3.25 and falling with bet 365 when we sent the selection out.

    ————— ^ On my settled 365 bets it updates to SP and possibly enhanced sp – I would have to double check but I can provide pictures no problemo.

    You bought chipping at second best price which although in the rules doesn’t help the next day. If you are not happy with your losses when you lose you should avoid anything other than best price from now on . same for Wishful Dream and Ifitah . same for beatbybeatbybeat and Frederick. And claires secret.

    ———— ^ Trying to only go for the best prices on 365 now.

    The way you dance was at 4 on bet365, you bought it at 3.75, again you could avoid trades with second best price form now on .

    Mr black was bought for 3 when the best price was 3.5 . the rules in the manual say you should not have taken this trade at that price.

    —————- ^ My mistake

    You bought strong force at 2.5 when the best prices were 2.75 . the rules in the manual say back at best price or second best price so this would have been 2.75 or 2.63. by buying lower than the rules on the manual you leave yourself little room for profit in the morning.

    ——————— ^ My mistake, wasn’t too fussed as after I had a few BOG winners I took the risk with 365 seeing as they enhance the SP.

    You’ve clearly traded at the weekend , when the manual says to avoid trading at the weekend when you are just getting started as the prices can be much more volatile. I put a message out on Friday reminder users of this .

    ——————- ^ Yes I traded at the weekends as well.

    I notice from your notes that you seem to be using smarkets to lay. I never mention Smarkets in the manual. This exchange has about 5 times less liquidity than betfair.

    ——————^ Doesn’t make much difference when the prices I looked at on betfair were the same as smarkets (Usually it’s not the case) but I was able to get my lay off and for less commission.

    To summarise across 26 trades you’ve made £295.55 profit

    7 of these trades were not at best price so could have been more profitable / lower loss had you got best price ( this is your best area you can improve on by maximising profits and reducing losses)

    —————- ^ Only using 365 + took 2nd or 3rd price on a few.

    You traded at the weekend when the manual says you shouldn’t as a beginner

    ————-^ Yes.

    You are laying out on smarkets which is weaker and has less liquidity .

    —————-^ few times I did smarkets when prices were the same.

    We recommend using 5 bookies at least , and you are doing the best you can with one.

    ——–^ I have two sets of accounts to use after sign up bonuses so will be looking to use them in the near future.

    3 trades you appear to have got prices higher than our selection listed with bet365 despite them having a falling price. I am at a loss to explain this.

    —————- ^ 365 have my bets settled as SP

    1 selection you backed at a price well below the manual rules.

    If you want to spend some time on the phone with me I may be able to give you some extra help given you can only use bet365. I would suggest doing at least a few backs with betfair sportsbook and laying off on smarkets if it opens you up to a second bookie option ( not something I would recommend to anyone other than yourself in your situation)

    ————-^ will follow this if a selection requires this.

    All in all when speaking to people on the phone and answering emails Im finding users that are new to this and new to betfair are currently doing the best. Sadly a few users with previous betfair experience are skim reading the manual and missing some of the rules or not understanding them fully and as a result not doing as well as they could be. £300 in your first 26 trades is not to be sniffed at , but the pointers here should improve your overall results moving forwards.


  127. c19rta says:

    Just to update – the 3rd horse I was on today went went off at 5 (backed at 3) and won! so another fantastic BOG.

  128. rwcombo says:

    So if you didn’t have BOG you would have lost this one?
    Been monitoring today and the other two lost

  129. Tim Lowe says:


    BOG is part of the system, since we back favourites. this week we’ve picked 10 winning horses out of the last 15 races.

  130. c19rta says:


    yes but like Tim said above, BOG is part of the system. I’ve been lucky getting 3 BOG in last 3 days which have earned me 120ish to 50 stakes! about £480 up now

  131. rwcombo says:


    Thank you. I too was lucky last week with BOG
    Yesterday I was getting a bit uncomfortable with the prices which is why I paper traded today.

    Tim emailed a very long list of rules to all users(or reminding us of it – not too sure how he knows who is doing what lol) but will follow the rules to the letter but a little uncomfortable with £50 stakes as soon could get restricted with some bookies but will give it a go.


  132. graham says:

    Hi Tim Lowe. I have tried contacting you but email keeps being sent back, and I cannot find a contact on the website. Could you send me a link please?

  133. graham says:

    Hi Tom, Thanks for your help mate, got through in the end.

  134. crycol says:

    Have tried this

    The instruction manual is excellent.
    A newbie really would have to read it a good few times and would need to paper trade
    Experienced “traders” should have no problems – I re-read twice as needed to get my head around the Bookie v Exchange Rule 4 deduction differences

    Unfortunately, I found it certainly not “2 minute” in any aspect and needed to have 4 bookie windows logged in and open as even going to place a bet within seconds of the alert being received, found that the first bookie listed did not always have the acceptable price

    It is very time consuming if like me you do not ( and do not want to) have a smartphone with the alert function,( but even so you will need to stop what you are doing, and in our household we inevitably sit down to a meal sometime in the evening hours when the alerts are coming through, and it is frankly rude to stop to deal with the betting function during that time, especially as I am the cook !)

    For those without the time constraints,I am sure there is money to be made, I have come out just about even in the few trades I have made, transferring a little money to my Betfair account from the bookies which is a nice bonus.

    I stress, my trial is far, far to short to give an objective judgement, my comments here are purely subjective, and I trust Mr Lowe or Lee will not find anything here to object to, as if I had the time, I certainly would be an adherent

    Footnote – the not wanting ( or needing) a smartphone is probably a generation thing, like finding twitter and facebook revolting

  135. mad one says:


    …..The lottery is a tax on the stupid.

    …..Facebook is a tax on stupid people’s time.

  136. Tim Lowe says:


    Nothing for me to object to at all. It’s quick and easy with a smartphone as the bookie and Betfair mobile sites are much easier to use and a whole generation of people, actually several generations, now photograph their food and upload it to twitter etc so mealtime interuptions are normal!

    Personally I hate facebook etc but such things are the new way…sorry 🙂

    Tim Lowe

  137. Tim Lowe says:


    A tip is to avoid the first selection and take the second as far fewer people do if they got on the first one so the price holds for longer.


  138. crycol says:

    Tonight was a good indicator of the time constraints

    After preparing the food, eating it and clearing away,I turned on my computer to find 5 selections sent over a period of 39 minutes
    Previously it has been longer than that, the previous night as an example was from memory 2 and a bit hours

    It is irrelevant whether you are doing this on Smartphone or Laptop, if you live a “normal” evening life, unless you are willing to wait until after 9.00 pm to prepare (as I Do) the food and eat it, you cannot deal with the bet placement promptly.

    That is the reality – I know that Lee reckons you get the prices for an hour or more after advice, but I have tried and failed

    This is NOT criticism, just a statement of the reality as it applies to me, and am sure others. To act on the evening advices needs, for some, a reorganising of the household routines – Smartphone or not.

    P.S. Does photographing their food and uploading it to twitter actually achieve anything ? It really is irrelevant to what I am saying other than confirming I really do not have need for a smartphone . It is as rude as mobile phones in theatres , cinemas etc etc

    Tim, I have made some honest comments , which may help others – To those without time constraints – do it, but those who have commitments in the 6 -9p.m. time frame, have a long hard think about it, at least you have an honourable man’s guarantee of refund( ignore the the cretins writing on FHS) should you find time a problem in practise should you subscribe

  139. c19rta says:


    I will be interested to see your results with this

  140. crycol says:


    My actual results would be unfair to the system, as I had a disaster one day placing the bets – there was an odds change during the placement process, which I did not notice thus it was the next day I found that not only had 3 bets not been placed, but the odds had disappeared also.

    But I looked at it and had I got the second level, I made £0.04 profit !!!

    But, I do not trade the way the system says. what I am going to say is NOT what the authors of the system mandate you do , nor do I suggest it is a better way of doing it, but it is the way I trade as I prefer to make my own calculations rather than use an online calculator

    The 2 minute trader calculator is first class and the rule 4 calculator is an excellent facility I have not seen before

    The system vendors suggest they are getting a win sr of 40% ( Seen it somewhere in Tim or Lees write ups on either this or other forums).

    So I do not bother with a win/
    win situation, but a win/break even

    Betplaced, £50 at 3.0 gives £100
    Lay £61 at lay odds of 2.5 gives a net profit of around £8 whether horse wins or loses
    But if I place a lay bet of £53 at 2.5 I will win £20 if the horse wins and cover my costs if it loses

    If those were the odds achieved overall on average, at 40% sr wins, the overall results would be the same – my method a little more as the reduced lay amount on my method reduces the betfair add on.

    If the horse drifts and my lay odds are higher than i have backed, I UNDERLAY, as the loss on the underlay on a losing horse can be less than the losses if the horse wins, and the BOG factor, increases the winnings as the underlay liabilities are less


    But you asked for my results which I can only give the way I do such trades however those trades are arrived at, whether by 2 minute trader or other means I use

  141. crycol says:

    Have just had an e.mail from 2 minute trader reiterating their system “rules” and announcing developments
    PLEASE take more notice of that than my post above in which I got carried away with what I do myself, and now regret as I am diverting from the authors methods which themselves are sound.

    As it happens, I got the bog on Brave Encounter too and made a good bit more, £48 as I underbet the lay
    But that is by the by – use the system as published and only vary it if you have the experience to do so and have tested the theory.

  142. matth66 says:

    I started this as I work shifts and felt I could work round it and it is so simple I have even taught my wife how to do it in case I am working.

    Coming to the end of week 3 on this system.Overall it has gone really well. 3 weeks and 3 profits.I only ever take top price.

    My only concerns is with the longevity of the system.I have already had one account restricted(Bet Victor) and I hope I am wrong, but the product may become a victim of it’s own success. It may only be a temporary blip, but increasingly I am finding odds drifting. on a few days recently. it was only due to BOG winners that the system showed any sort of profit.

    It was frustrating to be restricted by Bet Victor as I had followed the rules to “stay under the radar”, but I think a few BOG winners, made them edgy? I was only using £20 stakes as well, not £50!

    I really hope I am wrong as £500-£1000 per month would be great ongoing. I do note that further enhancements are due.

    So in conclusion. it has made good money so far and as soon as it stops I guess I stop paying for it!


  143. Steve_M says:

    I claimed my refund, although I did make a profit.

    I made a profit due to BOG wins, NOT due to shortening odds.

    This takes a lot longer than two minutes.

    To get the best ‘cash out’ price, you’ll need to be checking Betfair regularly during the day, which is quite distracting when you hold down a full-time job.

    It’s also quite awkward trying to cash out on a smart phone, particularly if you have to call Betfair to find out what the RF percentages are. This wouldn’t be a problem if you could choose cash out on your lunch break, but as is becomingly increasingly obvious, if you just choose a time based on your convenience, you’re unlikely to cash out for a profit.

    My experience (albeit short) left me of the opinion that the odds do not shorten significantly enough (or often enough) to make a worthwhile profit from just shortening odds alone. You can (and I did) profit from this system by relying on BOG wins. My concern with being so heavily dependent on BOG wins is that we are then winning the bulk of our profits on bookies websites and that is very likely going to see restrictions placed on our accounts, sooner rather than later.

    I do take Tim’s points on board that our opinions aren’t based on a significant period of time using this service and perhaps, over time, customers of the system will find that they are able to profit more from shortening odds than from BOG wins.

    One positive is that the support with this product is excellent (particularly given the fact there is no ‘official’ support offered with this product). Lee answers all queries promptly.

  144. JimmyJam says:

    What percentage of the selections are actually winning the races at the bookies? Thanks..

  145. Tim Lowe says:


    Since we gave our first selections just over 3 week’s ago up until this weekend, there have been a total of 70 selections on races which have run. Of these 70 races, 32 horses have won their races, so our strike rate for picking wining horses (not winning trades) has been 46%.

    This is way higher than the overall 35% we achieved in 4 months of testing so should be seen as unusually good!!

    Lest anybody think we are brilliantly connected in the racing world or have an army of form studiers, this is not so. We have software which looks at the whole market and calculates which horses the market thinks will win based on betting patterns.

    Tim Lowe

  146. JimmyJam says:

    Thanks for the reply Tim. What concerns me is that winning nearly half of the bets at the bookies will surely mean an increased likelihood of being restricted.

    In addition to using the selections for the 2MT, it sounds as if the selections could be used as a loss retrieving stop at a winner backing system also.

  147. matth66 says:

    As I come to the end of my 4 week trial. I thought I would give some feedback on the system.

    Overall, I would give the system a neutral review. This might seem a bit strange considering, that like everyone else over the 4 weeks i have made a good profit, but I will explain.The customer service is excellent, with ongoing developments delivered and in the pipeline

    Firstly, the marketing of the product suggest the system takes just 2 minutes and that you can place the lay bets next day any time after 11am. In practice placing the initial bet is quick and straightforward, but you will need to be quick to get the best prices, which means you need to watch for the emails and react accordingly.

    The next day, although you can lay off at 11am, you will often see drifting odds as the markets have little liquidity and are yet to form properly. In Practice you need to be around and able to lay off from 11am untill an hour before race, to ensure best price. If you are like me and work, where the regular use of a smartphone, is not an option, then you either have to take a worse price or not take the selection in the first place, thus restricting the available trades.

    What does concern me is that the results have progressively got worse. over the 4 weeks I achieved a 60% win rate, averaging a profit of £7.92/race. But I note week 3 I only achieved a 45% win rate and £5.40/race and to date on week 4 I am breaking even, even taking into account that I am getting better at minimizing losses and maximising profits.

    I still have only had one account restricted. But Agree withe the posting by Steve_M, too many BOG winners could see others in future

    I again note that there are ongoing developments to the service over the coming weeks, which apparently will further boost profits and reduce any losses.

    Overall, I have to say 4 weeks is not really long enough to assess the service. results do appear to be declining and the reliance on BOG winners could prove problematic.

    I have decided to continue with the service, as due to early profits, it would seem unlikely that after a further months subscription, that I will not still be in profit.

    I still hope this service will deliver the stated profits, and hope that this week is just a small blip and results will turn again over the coming weeks.

    Others will have achieved different results, have different views and I am by no means an expert in the horse trading field, so apologies if anything gets misinterpreted.


  148. DRSTOCH says:

    @ math66 Thanks for that

  149. edd says:

    mr tim lowe

    i cannot access my accout it keep asking for user name and password but it wont inform me which is the wrong one

  150. PEPPIDOG says:

    Try the password suckers…lets me in every time

  151. c19rta says:

    Like many of others have said, the odds don’t drop as much as what is advertised. I know a lot of people who agree with me and the money comes from BOG. One I’m not complaining about but that’s the fact.

    Of course tim will be along to say I’m talking rubbish but I have no interest I listening to someone who knows nothing about betting.

    Tim says 8 bog? In 4 months. In the first 2 weeks we had a similar amount so I do not believe him.

  152. Tim Lowe says:


    Like a few other pepple who dont like facts I see you’ve adopted the habit of anticipating a response to a provocative post and getting a dig in first.

    Frankly I don’t actually care whether you believe me or not. If you understood this system fully you know what the reasons are for the high number of bogs.

    When you are ready for reality give Lee another call and he can prove to you what the facts are and why you are mistaken.

    Perhaps you’ll believe him since he created the system.

  153. c19rta says:

    Today I did three of the early races and made a profit of about £20. Best odds on 365.

  154. Tim Lowe says:

    For those interested in numbers, despite criticism that this product makes too much money(!) because it relies heavily on BOGs and doesn’t work in the way we say, last week was a salutary lesson for those critics.

    Last week had an overall profit of £102.46 on £50 stakes.

    There were 15 selections with just 3 losing trades so 80% strike rate, which is better than we advertise but the previous week was worse so all in all, about where we state.

    Only 2 BOGs contributed to the 12 winning trades.

    Two horses, Italian Riveria and Captain McGinley made notable big profits from price drops without a BOG.

    Average profit was £6.80 per trade which again is better than the £5.75 we advertise.

    As we’ve said many times, we pick winning horses (as opposed to trades) about a third of the time, last week 5 horses out of 15 won their races, exactly as expected.

    Tim Lowe

  155. Tim Lowe says:

    Sorry, I forgot to mention that I am not including Saturday’s results since we advise against trading the weekends until you’ve been doing this for a few weeks.

    There were 8 selections on Saturday (none on Sunday).

    There were 6 winning trades, no BOGs.

    Profit for the day at £50 stakes would have been £32.68.

    Tim Lowe

  156. PEPPIDOG says:

    Not to be sniffed at Tim

  157. pabrmu says:

    Hi Tim,
    Still only paper trading, but quite happy with the system so far, but I have to disagree with your figures above.
    From 24/10 to 28/10 there was indeed 15 trades but I made it 8 wins and 7 losses with a profit of £66.49 to £50 stakes.
    I have previously sent emails to Lee and he seemed to think that I had understood the system well, so I do not see how I have got these figures so wrong.
    Anybody else care to share their figures.
    If needed, I could send my figures to Lee.

  158. pabrmu says:

    As for Saturday, I made it 9 trades, not 8 with 5 wins and 4 losses.£26.70 profit on £50 stakes.

  159. Tim Lowe says:

    Hello pabmru

    I got all those numbers from Lee this morning so best thing is to email him.

    Some of it will be when you cash out as obviously price varies but not sure how you had an extra trade on Saturday!!


  160. pabrmu says:

    Hi Tim,
    Deffo 9 on saturday.
    Will email Lee tomorrow.

  161. mike88 says:

    @ Tim Lowe (or anyone successfully using the system)

    Couple of questions if you don’t mind:

    1- How many bookmakers would I need to have accounts with?
    2- Based on £50 stakes, how much money is required to start (i.e if we need accounts with, say, 10 bookmakers, do we need £50 deposited with each (£500 in total) plus a large amount in Betfair to cover the liabilities?)
    3- You mention it can be operated from a smartphone – is this applicable to the whole process? I notice in the marketing video there is a ‘cash out calculator’, can this be easily used on a smartphone?

    Many thanks

  162. leestuartevans says:

    Mike 88

    We recommend 5 bookmakers to start with

    If you were starting with £50 stakes you would want an overall bank of about £500 to catch at least 2 trades per evening. You only need to deposit money in a bookmaker when you actually want to make a bet so no need to keep them pre funded.

    All bookmaker bets MUST be placed by smartphone web browser . you may cash out with betfair using phone or PC . the calc is optimised or phone or PC use.

  163. mike88 says:


    Thanks for the clarification and quick response

  164. JimmyJam says:

    What concerns me is that winning nearly half of the bets at the bookies will surely mean an increased likelihood of being restricted.

  165. leestuartevans says:

    JimmyJam. Firstly winning on seriously artificially low, poor value horse favourites will not get you gubbed at the bookies, and the lower they go the more we make. You just look like a mug that bets on favs and loses a lot.

    Secondly only 33% of our selections win.

    I have bookmaker accounts who STILL offer me free bets as loyalty bonuses even now because they see me as such a mug. I even find that if i dont bet with them for a few days they panic and immediately email me a free bet.

    so far since launch weve only had 4 people reporting being gubbed by one bookmaker ( betvictor ) thats it.

    If you follow our rules to the letter you wont get limited in any way .



  166. Ray Williams says:

    So much crap on this forum from ‘sideline moaners’ like peep dog or whatever his name is.

    I have bought three @Timlowe sports trading products including the latest 2 minute trader and all strategies have been well developed and do what they say IF you stick to the rules.

    With 2 minute trader it works and you make money. End of. Yes paddy power closed my account (they own befair too so easy for them to spot that) and I only use £50 stakes and whilst not hit £500 per month due to no BOG opportunities I am happy with a few hundred extra quid.

    If you can’t make money with this, question what you are doing and be honest with yourself.

  167. matth66 says:

    Latest update. Now at end of week 5.

    Week 4 ended well, with a BOG winner on Friday, and some decent “steamers” on Saturday.

    week 5 has been tougher, up to Saturday, I was down. But a BOG winner changed all that.A very small profit for the week.

    So 5 weeks and 5 profits. On this week alone, would never make £500/month, but over the 5 weeks would have made me £632. Again I note that results have returned lower profits each week so far, whether that trend will continue or reverse remains to be seen

    Still not sure that about the longevity of product as my payout on one of the bets was reduced by Bet 365 on one of the winners.Still only the one account restricted. week 5 there was 22 bets, 9 won at the bookies, 12 “steamers”, 10 drifters for me.

    As I always say. Others may have got different results.I am now using £50 stakes, having used lower previously, but my results above are calculated assuming a flat £50 stake.


  168. matth66 says:

    Just checked with Bet365, and it may have been my mistake. so profit for week 5 should have been £8 more!


  169. pabrmu says:

    Just a minor point.
    I believe that we are now being told to only use the BOG bookies.
    However, one of todays tips, Geordie Des Champs is quoted at 2.88 on the cash out calculator, but this was only available at Betway, a non-BOG bookie.
    The profit was shown at £3.65, but as we could only get 2.75 with BOGs, it should have been a £2.85 loss.
    Anyone explain?

  170. matth66 says:

    @ pabrmu

    I only use BOG bookies, didn’t realise that was an instruction, only recommended?.
    You should have changed the calculator to the odds you obtained.
    I lost on that one, although not as much as that.
    Are you obtaining similar results?

  171. pabrmu says:

    My point was that even though the manual does not say you MUST use BOG, Lee-Stuart in a recent email intimated that you should always use them.
    If this is the case, he really shouldn’t use odds from non-BOG in the calculator.
    I am still paper trading as I am ultra cautious. I started the system on 1/10 and have traded every tip with a £50 stake(as I said,paper trading) and I am £534.96 to the good.
    I am quite happy with this, but a few more big BOG wins would be good.

  172. matth66 says:


    Yes, I totally agree with you. Calculator should either be left blank for the back odds, or have the highest BOG odds.

    So we are pretty much making roughly the same( I appreciate you are paper trading)

    The only concerns I have are that the returns are the returns are diminishing and the past 2 weeks have been saved by BOG winners.

    I think Steve_M was probably right that the profits from odds movements are too small and we will looking for BOG winners to make anything at all.

    Hope I am wrong, but past 2 weeks have pretty much followed that way.



  173. leestuartevans says:

    Hi Matth66,

    just to point out last week was more than profitable ( as usual ) and the only BOG was saturday on Growl ( we recommend that you avoid weekends until you get more experienced as you often have to place the lay bet very late before the race) .

    Tim posted on the Lowedown recently about the perils of being a ‘ 5 minute expert’. A tried and tested long term system will have great weeks and will also have quieter weeks. To imply that the system ‘isnt doing as well’ is simply too myopic and focusing too much on the last week. Its interesting to note that the overall feel on here is that almost everyone following the rules is making decent returns and often more than expected from the sales literature, and yet some weeks we get users saying ‘ its all about BOG’ when it isnt … then some weeks saying ‘ I want more BOG’ when the week was profitable anyway . BOG is part of the system , but not the main part of it. We have no control on whether a horse wins its race or not. Some weeks we get a 50% horse winning its race rate and I get people emailing me saying its the best horse tipster service in the world ( and I sigh) then other weeks like last week we get an unusual number of horses losing their races and I get people moaning there weren’t many BOGs.

    You should aim to look at your overall monthly results and stop worrying about individual patterns in small clusters of data.

    The manual is very clear about using BOG bookies and always has been , the advanced section ( that Im sure you have all ready and fully understood) also explains exactly what to do in a situation where a Non BOG bookie has a higher price than the best BOG bookie.

    Also please get in the habit of consolidating what you actually won at the bookmaker with what you thought you would , because as well as BOG you will also find any horse races with an RF applied MAY also have made you more than expected. Again this is in the manual.

    As always Im here to help , its great to see so many people making lots of money , if people get stuck or have a query they can call the office or email us on the selections email .

  174. matth66 says:

    Hi Lee

    I think my posts have stated that the following.

    “Overall, I have to say 4 weeks is not really long enough to assess the service. ”


    “Others will have achieved different results, have different views and I am by no means an expert in the horse trading field, so apologies if anything gets misinterpreted.”

    So I am just giving my views of how the system has performed for me.

    £632 profit after 5 weeks is excellent, how that is achieved doesn’t really bother me to be honest.

    I also stated “5 weeks 5 profits”.

    So not trying to slate the product, just giving my views as a relative novice.



  175. PEPPIDOG says:


    As you say fella. It does not matter how it has been achieved. The fact you have made over £100 per week for the last 5 weeks is the main point here. I think pabrmu had similar results.

    If I am correct I understand you will get say 3 advised tips over 5 days in which you need to go to the bookies site and place back bets of, lets say, £50 on each horse. Let us also say that this will take you a maximum of 5 minutes each to do. So a total of 15 minutes
    You then need to be available to place a lay bet on these same horses around 5 mins before the off. Another 15 mins there then
    So all in total would it take up half an hour of your time per day. Would that be a fair comment to make or am I missing something?

    So over a two and a half hour stint over the week you have made a return of over £100 per week?
    Well to me £40 plus per hour is a great return for what is needed to be done. If you have the opportunity to be at your pc at the required times prior to each race. I see this as an excellent addition to an existing betting portfolio. Who would not want an extra £500 plus per month more?

    Future results maye prove this different but this is just based on what is being claimed here. And the fact that only one poster here has stated that they have have been gubbed by only one bookie shows that this is pretty much flying under the radar or that the bookies don’t really pick this up or are even bothered with it. Happy days.

    I wish all you guys good luck with this and look forward to reading more here

  176. pabrmu says:

    Hi Peppidog,
    The system is not really anything like you say in terms of timing, but you have the right gist.
    To say anymore would not be fair to the vendor.
    It seems that most users are very happy with the system and quite rightly so.

  177. PEPPIDOG says:

    Hi pabrmu


    reveals how in literally just a couple of minutes a day USING ONLY YOUR SMARTPHONE, you can ‘cream off’ around £500 to £1,000 every month TAX-FREE from the horses WITHOUT knowing a thing about racing or EVER having to watch it!!

    Not sure how I am too much out in respect of timing w based on what this says in the sales pitch above. But I will bow to your knowledge and accept that Tim does tend to go overboard with his marketing

    I am not too sure what you could say extra in terms of being unfair to the vendor as he has laid out exactly what is required and your posts on here only back this up. I do not see that there is any secret in this and that the value comes from the software that the team use to predict the horses that will move in your favour. As for what you do I think that is quite straight forward and no big secret.

    And I am totally with you pabrmu that most users should be very happy with what it returns. That really was the gist of what I was trying to say in my previous post

  178. pabrmu says:

    No probs, mate.
    Wasn’t meaning to be offensive.

  179. PEPPIDOG says:

    None taken dude

  180. leestuartevans says:

    lovely email this morning from a typical happy 2 Minute Trader customer

    ‘Hi I just wanna say a big thank you and I’m doing really well with the 2minutetrader I’ve made a little over £475 and I only started 3 October and had a holiday in that time ‘

  181. matth66 says:

    Hi Lee

    I know you don’t want me updating my results each week, as you are quite right, that the product needs to be assessed over a longer period, but just to be fair, I though I would let people know how week 6 went.

    Week 6 was a great week. I managed to get on 20 trades and made £93. I probably could and should have made more on a few.

    There are difficulties sometimes getting the odds, and I still have concerns about being restricted, but so far still only Betvictor have done so. there were 12 winning trades all due to odds shortening, and not a single BOG

    So 6 weeks 6 profits. Had I been using £50 stakes from the start. I would be a healthy £727 up.



  182. leestuartevans says:

    Thanks For the update Stuart ,

    We traded live on £50 stakes last week and made £134 for 24 trades , No BOGs and an average profit of £5.60 which is more than 10% per trade so your results are certainly comparable to ours.

    Overall profit now since launch stands at a very healthy £1427 on £50 stakes for roughly 150 selections. Had you been using £100 stakes you would now have made nearly £3k for £70 of subscription.

    Today has been really great for users too and my 10am announcement highlighting a bent race turned out to be spot on as well.

    non users may not be aware but I now email all members at 10am with my view of all selections , target lay prices and best time to cash out to make trading even simpler.

  183. PEPPIDOG says:

    Hi Lee

    Just a quick question.. or two. When you say if somebody had been using £100 stakes. What would be the size of bank needed to cover the liability on the lay side of those size bets? ( on average ). And would there be any liquididty issues on those same bets?
    Thanks in advance

  184. Alan Lamont says:

    I have just cancelled my subscription to this.

    There isn’t much problem with it, other than you have to be really quick and the trading out the next day I found difficult even with using my laptop as the markets kept fluctuating.

    Also, I and many others didn’t get anywhere near their profits. They claim it is because we aren’t following their rules, even though I was. I would say that they need to give clearer entry and exit points, anything above that would be up to the person trading.

    It comes from a great company who have other great products/services.

    I would say that £50 a trade is much more easy. Even then, using their tips on how not to get banned I don’t know how this can last long term.

    Their customer service was great, even offered me to phone them to personally walk through it with me.

  185. leestuartevans says:

    Hi Peppidog. £100 stakes would require a £1000 bank overall according to our rules. this would mean with the selections we send at he odds we send them you would always have enough to cover with betfair. We dont ever send selections above 4.33 so the max you would need on a £100 stake at odds of 4.33 is £333. if you follow the staking and bank rules you cannot come unstuck.

    liquidity isn’t an issue. most races have more than £50k matched on our selection alone up to an hour before the race.

    We have many users doing £100 stakes. A Mr A called me this morning who has made £488 since the 1st Nov which was great to hear .

  186. PEPPIDOG says:

    Thank you for you reply Lee. Much appreciated. Just one observation then. Would there not be instances when the full £1000 would not be needed if the first race was done and dusted and money back into your account before having to lay the next one?…or the last race one surely?

    Yes, £488 is a great return ( less subscription fees obviously ) for two weeks “work”. This is looking like something I will be adding to my portfolio, I am finding it very difficult to come up with reasons not to to be honest with you

  187. edgarnaranjo says:

    this seems interesting, one question would this be profitable if I only use bet365 and of course betfair?

    due to my location I don’t have access to most of the bookies and the ones allowing accounts here are really strict with accounts on a winning streak

  188. Spudmeistered says:

    I’ve made £900 since the start of October using this 🙂

  189. leestuartevans says:

    Hi Edgar

    I do 75% of all my betting with this system Bet365 so you will be fine.

  190. leestuartevans says:


    yes you are starting to think like a more advanced trader… if i have two selections at 10% of bank each that ive taken for day races I tend to ‘risk it’ and sometimes take another selection for an evening race on the basis that the first two will be cleared and the outcomes done before the evening race. So occasionally you can get more bang for your buck…but be aware if all your earlier horses go on to win their races you may have to dip in for some extra funds to cover the late race ( in reality i find this doesnt happen too often given that our selections only win about 33% of the time)

  191. leestuartevans says:

    nice week of trading this week again and a lovely BOG earlier today. Just got this email from a member too ! Im now sending emails out at 10am every day with target cash out prices for all selections to make cashing out even easier .

    ‘Just want to say that the emails you send out are great and help us keep note of everything. I’ve recommended this product to quite a few of my friends now and are all of the same opinion….. we love it! Even when things don’t go great on certain days which is rare, you know there’s a BOG around the corner waiting to put a smile on your face!
    Thanks again! Keep up the good work.’

  192. frankwood says:

    Been trading about 4 days but I’m finding most (about 70%) are losing trades. Must be doing something wrong.

    Following instructions so I’m not sure what,s wrong.

    Got an email off lee saying some people are making £500 per week. Good luck to them but it didn’t make me feel any better.

  193. matth66 says:


    Not been a great week for me either. I emailed Lee and he sent me his profit diary to compare. Made me very frustrated too as my results were nowhere near as good. And on several horses I had lost, where he had won. At that point I hadn’t made even half what he claimed for November.

    He offered to discuss results, so I intend to call him on Tuesday and find out where I am going wrong. Even though you claim 70% lost, are you still making a profit?

    I did query the £500 / week claim. I assume they are using £100 stakes.


  194. matth66 says:


    I just find that the odds rarely steam in to the levels suggested on the email.

    And I have looked at the graphs upto the off and they have got nowhere near.

    I realise that it is often only a best estimate, as no one knows for sure. I only use it to give me an early indication, particularly if you are being advised to get out ASAP.

    I guess I do not have the skills required yet in order to maximise my profits.


  195. leestuartevans says:

    Matt 66 – I wont be in the office on Tuesday so can you call me on wednesday ? Im happy to go thorough exactly what you have been doing bit by bit to find the areas you can improve on. Ive yet to not be able to help people. My record was a member who swore he was following all the rules and nearly half were wrongly executed.

    Dacia – I get the emails when everyone else does . to imply anything else is hugely unfair. You also dont have any evidence to the contrary about the profits members are making. Text is also a terrible idea. With email you get the email if you have mobile data , and if you dont you are very likely to be somewhere like home or work with Wifi. With a text you MUST have signal on your phone and often in testing we found service providers are very unreliable in sending texts out promptly. I am noticing that I Phones are yet again causing issues ( i loathe everything apple) . I phones dont automatically send out emails to you , it can take up to 15 mins between the times it checks. Its been causing issues for some members.

    My morning email is a guide. I dont have a crystal ball. Im doing the best i can with the tools I have to give people a guide to where I think the prices should go. Im doing this very early in the day whereas you all have the power of hindsight. Ive had a lot of positive feedback from members about this.

    Im also HUGELY pleased to finally launch an advanced recovery calculator to be used 2 mins before the race ( if you want to ) to massively reduce the losses on losing trades where the price has drifted up and stayed high before the off. This is another tool to add to the members arsenal to make things more profitable.

  196. PEPPIDOG says:

    I am really torn with this system. One minute I am thinking that this would be a good move and then I read differently here from those who have taken the plunge.

    At the beginning it seemed that members were on their way to easily making the £500 plus per month claimed in the sales blurb. Whether it was with normal returns or BOG’s, it really didn’t matter as long as it were to continue. You cannot argue with that every month as part of your portfolio.

    However it now seems that members, or some at least, are finding that getting the advised odds is becoming more and more difficult. Also, as Dacia pointed out, that the time it takes to find the bets now to make a profit is becoming longer and longer. Certainly not the two minutes Mr Lowe claims. If it really did take just a few minutes in the evening to place a back bet and then a few minutes the following day to place a lay bet…and to get over £500 per month then this would be a no brainer. It seems, once again however, nothing is quite as it claimes in reality.

    Apart from Lee, is there anyone who has purchased this making anything near what is claimed. And if so how long per day are you checking prices before the deal is done?
    Like I said…I am torn on this one

  197. Tim Lowe says:


    Lee’s point about SMS is simple, if you have no phone signal you cannot get texts. Since you’ve used ‘Instant SMS for years’ as you claim then you’d know that the text gets sent instantly BUT if the phone is not connected to a phone network it gets saved for later and gradually gets further down the queue. This is why people send texts and the recipient sometimes gets them a day or more later.

    However, email arrives with phone signal AND if you are connected by WiFi to any network.

    Twice now you’ve made stupid barbed comments in my direction with nothing more than supposition or ill informed conjecture.

    You told Lee “Just cut out the crap eh?”


    Tim Lowe

  198. mike88 says:

    I joined up nearly 2 weeks ago and overall, I’m happy with it because it is making money albeit, for me, no where near the levels being suggested in the marketing blurb. In 13 days, I have made £126 using £50 stakes which, pro rata’d would work out to around £290 month. I generally have no problem getting the back odds in the evening but, as others have said, you really do need to be quick off the mark to get those odds. The alerts are sent over the course of the evening so the practicalities of getting on every bet at the odds advised are not realistic for most people. I have therefore missed a handful of bets but, had I have taken them, my results would not differ greatly give or take as some were winners and some losers. The time consuming part comes the following day in having to monitor Betfair to try to obtain the best lay odds. Lee does provide an update email every morning which gives a target that he think we should be able to lay at but, although I think it’s commendable that Lee is doing this to help the subscribers out, I find it a bit of a waste of time because the odds very rarely hits the levels Lee suggests and on many occassions, the steamers he mentions end up drifting (sorry Lee, don’t like knocking you for trying to help us out but it’s just what I’m finding). I’ve not had a chance to look at the new approach to limit losses yet but I will be doing that tonight, sounds great and should hopefully help limit the bigger losses to improve results. In the time that I have been a member, there have been 2 BOG winners which have certainly helped and I must point out that one of the bets that I missed was a BOG winner which, if I had managed to get on, would have improved my results.
    So, in summary, Yes, I’m happy with the service and will be continuing to subscribe. It’s certainly not a get rich quick approach and you have to take the marketing blurb with a ‘pinch of salt’ but an extra few hundred £ per month as an add on to a portfolio is great.

  199. Tim Lowe says:


    Firstly, nothing is ‘becoming more and more difficult’.

    After the first few weeks when things were all over the place with massive BOGs things have settled down and looked at over a sensible period everything is completely consistent with what we told people to expect.

    I really cannot understand this angst over how many minutes it takes you to earn £500 a month or more (at £50 stakes BTW).

    It takes how many seconds to check the lay price of a horse?

    So what if you have to do that a few times, it’s still a matter of a few minutes.

    You say you are torn?

    I am bewildered at what is so hard to decide. You can try it for a month and get a refund and its £35. If that is really such a big decision my advice is to listen to Walter ‘Dacia’ Mitty and just don’t subscribe.

    Tim Lowe

  200. PEPPIDOG says:

    @ Tim

    For goodness sake man…take a chill pill. the question I asked was to members that have paid for your service and I was looking for their unbiased opinion and not the one of tyhe marketeer. I can get your viewpoint anytime I wish from your sales blurb
    I would like to thank Dacia and Mike88 for posting their experiences.
    I am not stupid Tim so please do not take me as such. I realise it only takes a “matter of a few minutes” to check a price. I was asking how many times and for how long are people finding themselves doing it. Basically I was trying to discover is this a service that keeps you looking right up until the off in the hope you can get a good price.
    Mike88 states that whilst it does not make the returns you claim (no surprise there I’m afraid) he does go on to say that he still feels it a good addition to his portfolio and will be continuing.
    This viewpoint was in essence what I was trying to glean…not a repeat of your sales pitch.
    So please let those that have purchased bring forward their experiences and I suggest for now you just go sit in the corner and have a word with yourself

  201. Tim Lowe says:


    This is not the first time you have decided that it’s OK to be condescending to anybody who posts something you dislike. Telling me to sit in the corner is pretty much guaranteed to achieve the opposite and I suspect you know and relish that.

    Nor is it the first time you’ve suggested that vendors shouldn’t post on forums.

    Sadly for your point of view, I will always answer unjustified criticism.

    I am perfectly calm but bemused at what you describe as ‘taking the plunge’ when that plunge is a very small sum that you can get back if you don’t like it.

    Whilst I am grateful to mike88 for posting his comments, 2 week’s results is hardly enough, either way.

    The amounts claimed are more than achievable over time but will not come out exactly averaged every week.

    There is nothing untrue in the sales copy, including the results or time taken.

    You now say: “Basically I was trying to discover is this a service that keeps you looking right up until the off in the hope you can get a good price.”

    Well maybe you should ask that question because the manual is incredibly clear that you must be cashed out at least an hour before the off.

    My advice remains, I would really prefer it if you did not buy this product as it cannot imagine that you will find it suitable to your particular needs.

    Tim Lowe

  202. PEPPIDOG says:


    I do apologise that I may not be as elequent as you with my diction. But please do two things for me. Please stop twisting words just to fit your agenda and secondly, please do not respond to my posts as thjey are no way directed at you. I am asking others that have bought your product to give an honest appraisal. Nothing more…nothing less
    members of your product have already stated that it is not as stated in your sales blurb… times taken, odds achieved, profits made etc. I am just trying to drill down as to whether it does exactly as YOU say on the tin. I want to know what THEY say. So please allow your members to air their view, I do not want your opinion nor your feedback.
    And Tim…just so that you know…if I wished this product I doubt very much that you would be able to stop me unless you took it off the market. But no… you are right. Based on what others have said I don’t think it is for me. So don’t worry…and the corner is behind you. bye

  203. Tim Lowe says:


    Well I’m sorry that you don’t want my opinion or feedback BUT I am just as entitled to post in response to you as anybody else. My posts don’t prevent others giving you their opinions if they want you to have them.

    I cannot see how you think I ‘twisted your words’ but it is certainly not reasonable to say “members of your product have already stated that it is not as stated in your sales blurb… times taken, odds achieved, profits made etc” UNLESS you also say that many people made more than we predicted in month 1, not less.

    It was better than it said on the tin.

    I think it particularly unreasonable to lap up the extra profits when they come along but behave as though they never happened when profits are less.

    In other words you must look at the whole picture and that picture is exactly what we claimed when looked at over the whole period we have been selling the system.

    Tim Lowe

  204. RJM says:


    “I am noticing that I Phones are yet again causing issues ( i loathe everything apple) . I phones dont automatically send out emails to you , it can take up to 15 mins between the times it checks. Its been causing issues for some members.”

    No, they don’t – then need to be set-up to “push”.

    I have no problems whatsoever whether on WiFi or 3G/4G.

  205. PEPPIDOG says:

    I agree with what you say Tim. You are entitled to post and that this has to be taken with a long term view. I just want to hear from others as to how it is working out for them. Simples.

  206. matth66 says:


    Okay thanks will ring Wednesday. I desperately need a boost. Beginning to loose faith in this now. Don’t mind how long it takes to make £500/month, but last week broke even and today pretty much the same.

    It seemed today within 15 minutes of the email, the odds all drifted, so those that were coming in and looked good suddenly didn’t look so good!

    I’m no Betfair expert, but surely the more people that do this, is bound to effect the markets. Both when trying to get bets on at bookies and also on Betfair when laying off. Sure someone with more experience can correct me if wrong.

    Hoping Lee gives me some hope!


  207. Spudmeistered says:

    Not a very good week so far though. Price has gone up on almost every selection, despite saying it would come down

  208. Tim Lowe says:


    You posted this at lunchtime on the second day of the week, 1.5 days data cannot really be considered significant.

    However, yesterday we had at least 2 winning trades and I’m told we’ve had at least 2 winners already today so no idea why you say what you do.

    Tim Lowe

  209. Spudmeistered says:

    @Tim Lowe

    The only way you could had made a profit today is if you placed your lay bet with less the one hour to go, I cashed out at exactly one hour before each race today and they were all equal to/above there backing price (turns out they all dropped in price as it got closer to the start). I’m not criticising the system, I like it, I’m just saying that it hasn’t been a very good start to the week, and trying to see other members points of view.

  210. Tim Lowe says:


    Lee is not in today but Glen and Quentin trade this as well everyday and follow all the rules. It is them who gave me the information above.

    My advice is to call Lee when he is back in tomorrow as he will be able to steer you straight on this.

    Tim Lowe

  211. Spudmeistered says:

    @Tim Lowe

    I had a feeling it wasn’t Lee who emailed us as it didn’t go into as much depth. Thanks, but I think I should fine.

  212. Spudmeistered says:

    Should be fine*

  213. leestuartevans says:

    Adarenna gives us our biggest ever profit since launch just now. £170 profit from a £50 stake , or if you had used the new recovery calculator to reduce your loss to zero then you would still have made about £40 profit from this trade with zero risk. We have another steamer still going called Scottsdale down to the 2.7 mark from 4 running later this afternoon so we are on course for the most profitable day since launch .

  214. Spudmeistered says:


    Imagine if Somerset Lias wins aswell!

  215. Spudmeistered says:

    Wow, Somerset Lias Won aswell!!

  216. leestuartevans says:

    another 1.5 times your stake in BOG for Somerset Lias . Ive also recorded a video of me using the recovery calc on Somerset Lias which took a 30% chunk of my loss liability but still made me £50 profit when it won due to BOG. we should have the video uploaded by tomorrow.

    Still have Scottsdale to run and I locked in profits earlier at 2.76 for a 40% profit on stake so all in all we are looking at a record day for this system across all selections. People with £50 stakes may well be up £250 and those trading £100 stakes may well have made £500 today.

  217. leestuartevans says:

    Last weeks stats. 30 trades , 9 losing trades £326.40 profit on £50 stakes and an average profit of over £10 for every £50 staked. Another great week ! We are now nearly at the £2k profit mark since launch on £50 stakes in less than 2 months…..

  218. brokebookie says:

    @PEPPIDOG – i think i actually downgraded Gerry747 as the 757 is smaller than the 747 – jumbo

    But yes it was all about multiple sequences in the greyhound place market and having a stop loss when 1 point is achieved.

    @leestuartevns – Is the guarantee on this Two Minute Trader include any conditions, or can you receive selections for one month and if losing you can claim your money back?

  219. Tim Lowe says:


    The only condition is to ask WITHIN 30 days. A few people have left it much later and been upset about that.

    Tim Lowe

  220. brokebookie says:

    Thank you Tim that makes sense!

  221. brokebookie says:

    My inbox has been hammered with Doug Mckenna racing sometimes 6 in a day!! One minute its closing, next minute someone drops out and there are spaces, blah blah blah! Has anyone tried it though?

  222. brokebookie says:

    @Peppidog – you run 2 separate sequences and banks for each and exchanges, say one backing in the place market of greyhounds and one for laying same and the idea is to use mild loss retrieval on both and then eventually both come into profit, its not easy as i still have to read form for greyhounds or look at grades and times, whereas i think gerry just used prices.

  223. PEPPIDOG says:

    Aha… penny drops…Cheers brokebookie

  224. leestuartevans says:

    Starting to get some great feedback from members using the new extra recovery calc to reduce losses on losing trades.

    Hi Lee
    Just to let you know I used the recovery calculator for the first time on Dandy Flame and it worked fine.
    £25 stake reduced from loss of -£6.73 to -£2.40 – it all helps!! (Odds on bet 365 went from 3.5 to 5)
    Thanks for this.

  225. brokebookie says:

    ribboco says:
    November 29, 2016 at 11:22 am
    PEPPIDOG Are you taking the Michael this is simple stuff to understand ,they both ultimately recover so you win on both lay and back hopefully ,As for Gerry he did have some good ideas ,but if he was not a pilot and without a share in a airline ,what he said about sending an aircraft out to fly the bodies back of some of the victims of that aircraft fired down by the Russians is not a laugh ,I’m not saying that anybody on here thinks that is a laugh , but Gerry said those things and if untrue that makes him a scumbag ,I’m sure somebody on here said they flew with Gerry so could they come on here and put the record straight, what is true otherwise it leaves a bad taste..
    I think if we just stick to the stuff that gerry747 gave that was betting related then i think he had some good input as you say correctly point out ribboco, and after all that’s what this forum is all about it isn’t it, not about peoples occupations?

  226. brokebookie says:

    Don’t know where to post this but has anyone tried that Doug Mckenna racing? Another set of emails yesterday – boy this guy wants my business!

  227. ribboco says:

    Brokebookie don’t be a silly billy do you want any truck with anybody who would post stuff like that just to sound important ,I think and hope he was genuine on that part of his posts ,But if not I don’t give a fig how good his ideas might be ,Are you saying you would invite Himmler round for dinner if had an idea or two , no if he was making that up for me it would be beyond the pale ,But then we all have different standards

  228. brokebookie says:

    I think you are missing my point Ribboco… This is a betting forum, if someone puts forward a good idea that i can use then it matters little to me about whether he is a ‘Catch me if you can’leonardo dicaprio type character. And no i would not invite himmler round for dinner and to compare Gerry747 to himmler is just crazy! Coem on get real!
    Whether Gerry747 is on a flight of fantasy or not is irrelevant, and from memory if he is that’s pretty harmless anyway and sad in a way but that does not stop him from offering decent ideas betting related.

  229. leestuartevans says:

    Nice email today from a user really getting to grips with the new recovery calc. when we have a losing trade ( 3 out of 10 times) members can now use this second tool to reduce their losses on it considerably and in many cases negate the loss entirely

    ‘Battalion – watched the race on betfair-from last to first by a long way!

    Good one!!
    Was expecting -£7.86 (4.9)
    Reduced to -£3.59 on recovery
    actually won £13.15

    Thanks ‘

  230. PEPPIDOG says:

    I realise there will be losses if things do not go for you and it is good that you have a recovery calculator that can minimum the loss or even negate it….excellent
    I saw after you launched this system that initial members were making profits, be it by difference in odds or BOG…..again excellent
    However over the last few weeks it seems that they have now gone a little quiet… not that they need or obliged to post their results.
    So could you possibly tell me how this has been performing over the last few weeks/month. Only over that period would be great
    Would be appreciated. Thanks

  231. c19rta says:


    Last week there was the best BOG since launch I believe and guess what, I was busy and forgot to cash out of my back bet with my lay already matched in running! I did say I won’t be making that mistake again and the same thing happened today with Batallion but I forgot to place my lay bet so I recovered my losses!

    I will be using all the bookies Lee recommends for December and will report profits then. My own problem I find is when I set a lay at 4.2 for example and it’s currently at 4.4 it tends to drift out more and more before the race leaving me with a bigger loss (I haven’t used the new recov calculator) as I’d rather take the hit and get the BOG.

  232. leestuartevans says:

    i posted last weeks results a little bit earlier up this thread. this week so far for £50 stakes we are up around £100 on 14 selections.

    Every week has been more than profitable and every week since launch weve delivered win rates that have equalled or exceeded the sales copy.

    all the nay sayers have long gone quiet. On £50 stakes since launch ( coming up to 8 weeks) we are up nearly £2k overall .

    Im super pleased with the results, and must say that Ive been on the phone for anyone that has taken the time to call me , Im happy to spend time making sure every member that wants to follow the rules makes money . Anyone that has emailed in knows you also get an answer same day.

  233. PEPPIDOG says:

    @ leestuartevans

    Firstly thank you for your prompt and informative reply.

    For my part I have never been a nay sayer on this product, In fact i have followed this system with great interest.

    I will be honest and actually say that if it were not for my work committments until the ednd of the year then I would certainly have joined. In fact if I can then I will be with you guys as soon as the new year starts.

    Anything that can give a £2k return after only 8 weeks is something that only a fool would dismiss.

    As soon as time allows I will be partaking for sure….even if Tim is involved…lol (sorry Tim…but surely you would not be happy with my money without the crap you give back? 🙂

  234. PEPPIDOG says:

    @ c19rta

    Thanks for the feedback fella

  235. leestuartevans says:

    We hit the £2k mark today after 8 weeks and £50 stakes. remember some users are trading £100 stakes !!!!!!

    We have hundreds of users , we have flown completely under the bookies radar , and overall other than the odd trade ,members are all getting their bets on at the best price and we have delivered more trades , more profit and more profit per average than the sales literature promised.

    Today we are sizing up for 5 winning trades out of 5 . without any BOG if you had taken all 5 today on £50 stakes you will be up £60.92

    another great email this morning from a member

    ‘Well done, really glad I joined the service.

    Through work, not managed to trade everything but still made good money. And I really do think the updates and information you send out add a lot to the service.

    Keep up the good work. ‘

  236. leestuartevans says:

    and another email today ….


    I would just like to say a big thank you, this product has made a big difference for me and I am currently at £1500 profit! I have compounded the profits and now I am using £100 stakes. I must say I was a little critical at first as I was quite desperate to make some extra cash, now that I know that this system is reliable, I can relax and watch the profits roll in!

    Keep up the good work and thanks once again.


    P.S. Looks like another big profitable day today! Already cashed out of one trade for a £65 profit!

  237. PEPPIDOG says:

    Looking good Lee

  238. zombieland says:


    Could I ask you how you recirculate your money between bookies and Betfair to keep to your £500 for £50 stakes?

    Not sure if it’s more likely to flag my account at bookies if I use Skrill or Paypal. Is it best to stick with debit card although transfers take days?

  239. leestuartevans says:


    we use paypal. Betfair dont care what you withdraw as they are an exchange.

    Paypal causes no issues with the bookies. The key is to select only a few of our recommended bookies and you will find you very rarely have to withdraw from bookies in the long term as only one in three horses wins on average so generally you are withdrawing occasionally from your betfair account. Today is an extreme example where all 5 selections had their horse lose in the race !

    some bookies dont take skrill and Ive never used it.

    We have a dedicated section in the manual about avoided detection from bookies and it has worked incredibly well for our members since launch.

  240. fraserj70 says:

    If I was to start with a £500 bank as suggested how could I keep my bank flowing? as surely my money would be tied up a lot with either the bookies or betfair as it takes about 3 days for the bookies or betfair to payout.

  241. leestuartevans says:


    We recommend using paypal so the money often transfers in 4 hours or less.

    you also dont put money in your bookmaker until you want to place a bet. so most of the time your money is in paypal or betfair. We recommend only using a few of our recommended bookies too so you dont have funds spread across too many places.

    with a horse win rate of 1 in 3 and odds between 2.25 and 4.33 most of the time the money flows from bookie to betfair in the long term

    all of this is covered in detail in the manual along with staking sizes etc.

  242. fraserj70 says:

    Thankyou for the prompt reply, I didn’t know that about paypal, that’s handy to know.

  243. slochin says:

    Hello Lee,
    I am in Australia and we are restricted to which bookies we can deal with. Quite a number of our online books have been taken over by the UK firms such as Paddy,WHill etc. Unfortunately they do not provide us with BOG. Now although we can still place bets with them and possibly obtain advised odds especially as they are given out the night before,I wonder if you could advise as to whether the lack of availability of BOG you would still suggest subscribing.

  244. TheGM says:

    slochin…”I am in Australia and we are restricted to which bookies we can deal with. Quite a number of our online books have been taken over by the UK firms such as Paddy,WHill etc. Unfortunately they do not provide us with BOG.”

    bet365 (Australia) will bet you BoG on UK races. For exactly how long is anyone’s guess.


  245. Spudmeistered says:

    Today could be a big losing day or a big winning day, hoping for the latter!

  246. slochin says:

    @TheGM You mean Bet$3.65 .Only accepts losers unfortunately.

  247. TheGM says:

    “@TheGM You mean Bet$3.65 .Only accepts losers unfortunately.”

    Yes that’s correct.


  248. fraserj70 says:

    When you get sent the information of the horse to trade, how long have you got to get into bookie account and place the back bet before the odds change? Won’t everybody doing the same horse at the same time effect the odds?
    Just a couple of questions before I dive in and buy this as sounds like a goodsystem

  249. Spudmeistered says:

    Hi Lee,

    Was just wondering what your results have been like for this week as I haven’t had a very good week (mainly down to the amount of non-runners there have been)

  250. frankwood says:

    Hi lee

    Your website says 70.7% trades were profitable. Are you still getting this success rate?

  251. Spudmeistered says:

    I don’t know what’s going on with this prices this week, can only assume there’s a handful of members doing some shady stuff, whenever there seems to be a winning trade, I leave it till closer to race, and the price has shot up, Eg ‘Jac the Legend’ today started at 4.33, went down to 3.75 and now has gone back to 4.5, ‘Yes I did it’ has gone from 3.75 to 4.9, Whatduhavtoget’ has gone from 4 to 4.6. So despite you saying there is only 1 losing trade today, I have about 4 or 5.

  252. matth66 says:


    Not looking a great day for me either. Managed to get on all 7 last night as was not working today. Only usually get on a few. Wish I hadn’t bothered!

    Was about breakeven for the week prior to today. Really need a decent BOG winner!



  253. Spudmeistered says:


    Yes, definitely a BOG would be nice by the end of the day, I emailed Lee earlier and he said regarding the selections, there rival opponents have been tipped by 2 or 3 major tipsters therefore making our selected horse drift out in price. Fortunately I think this is just a little blip, I can imagine next week will be a lot better and back on track to making nice profits 🙂

  254. c19rta says:

    @spud @math

    similar results for me and a few friends. not a great weak but we had quite a few chances of a decent BOG due to the drifters. only needed 1 or 2 to get decent profit. roll on next monday

  255. PEPPIDOG says:

    When you say not a great week do you mean that it was not profitable or just not as profitable as you would have hoped? Surely it was not a losing week as that would just fly in the face of what the system is meant to produce.
    I was looking to get involved in this after the new year as time would allow more. It started off very well according to Lee and a few others here but now it seems it may have hit a bit of a wall. Could you just clarify if you are still making profit or not please. Appreciated

  256. c19rta says:

    I think I’m up a tiny bit or just about broke even. people’s results will be slightly different if you used the recovery calc on drifters if possible you would reduce losses considerably. also depending on the odds you laid at but I think Lee will agree this week wasn’t great but you can’t judge it on one week peppa

  257. frankwood says:

    On December 6 Lee says “with a horse win rate of 1 in 3 …..most of the time the money flows from bookie to betfair in long term”.

    I wonder if just taking the lays and keeping the lay odds under 3.5 may not be a more successful strategy…. In the long run?

    But as Keynes said “.. In the long run we are all dead”

    May I also say I think the name “2 minute trader” is a misnomer. I seem to be constantly staring at a screen – much to the annoyance of anyone in my company.
    But I am going to give the product a few more weeks to see if it picks up.
    I have not used the recovery calculator because I find the odds change to rapidly just before the start.
    And to use a poker term once you’ve lost 40% of your trade you are ‘pot committed’

  258. PEPPIDOG says:


    Thanks for your reply matey. I am not going to judge this on just one week. I would like to think this would be a long term profitable system. But based on what is stated above

    “BRAND NEW SYSTEM reveals how in literally just a couple of minutes a day USING ONLY YOUR SMARTPHONE, you can ‘cream off’ around £500 to £1,000 every month TAX-FREE from the horses WITHOUT knowing a thing about racing or EVER having to watch it!! ”

    I was just really trying to discover as to whether you are at your screen for just a couple of mins (@frankwood says not) and that you can, over a month, “cream off” the figures that Mr Markiteer claims.

    If it does then no matter what results you get in one week you really cannot complain. If it doesn’t then ………..

  259. frankwood says:

    Two BOGs today.

  260. Spudmeistered says:

    I don’t know if any of you have traded today but there was been 4 trades, one was a winning trade and other three were all BOGs! After an up and down week, for me, this has changed it from an average week into a very profitable one (made about £300 today using £100 stakes). Personally I don’t use the recovery calculator as I prefer the thrill of BOG trades. Lee said that during the winter months, the prices will fluctuate a lot more frequently due to the inclement weather and the state of the tracks. This may lower the strike rate a bit but this will increase the amount of BOG potential throughout the week. Wish you all good luck in the coming weeks 🙂

  261. PEPPIDOG says:


    Thanks for that fella. That has bought the scheme back on the right tracks I would imagine. Best of luck with it. Unless I hear something drastically to the different this is still on my radar to add to my portfolio in the new year. Best of luck to all of you who are there already

  262. Spudmeistered says:


    Would definitely recommend this system, started using it in early October and made a little under £2000. Lee said that they are bringing out another system next week which I think is only available for 2MT members so I’ll definitely sign up for that aswell

  263. moonhead says:

    Could I start this with a £200 bank?

  264. PEPPIDOG says:

    @ Spudmeistered

    Thanks mate. From what I have heard so far this sounds something I would like to add in the New Year. If it wasn’t for the time restraints now I would have dived in before now I’m sure. Keeps us posted Spudmeistered if you would be so kind

  265. Spudmeistered says:

    @PEPPIDOD No problem will do

  266. moonhead says:

    Can this be done with a bank of £200?

  267. Spudmeistered says:

    @moonhead Yes, definitely, you’d probably have to use £25 stakes to start with and on average you’ll probably need about £60-£70 liability to cover each trade so with £200, you may be able to do 2 maybe 3 trades per night

  268. Spudmeistered says:

    @moonhead To be honest, your probably better off saving up for a £500 bank, that way you will be able to use £50 stakes, do more trades and get more out of the system.

  269. PEPPIDOG says:

    @ moonhead

    If I were you I would do some risk free matched betting, if you haven’t already, then build yourself up a nice bank so that you can go at this a tad more seriously and get bigger returns.
    Just Google the term “matched betting” and take your pick as to who you go with.

  270. moonhead says:

    Thanks peppidog for the reply, iv done all the match betting, iv done every bookie. I was just thinking start with a £200 bank and build it up, just wondered if that’s possible.

  271. PEPPIDOG says:

    Then I dare say you could do this based on that size of bank but I think you would have to be a little selective to enable you to cover liabilities fella. But you have done the bagging side of things so you should be aware of that anyway. Best of luck anyway

  272. matth66 says:

    Been on this now for 10 weeks. Can’t help but say that the performance of this product has deteriorated in my view. Seems to pretty much rely on the bogs to bail it out. Which is fine as long as you have been able to get on those.
    When I started, you backed the night before and at any time after 11am, you could lay them off with a net profit.
    Some of the drifters lately have been huge on betfair and the loss recovery calculator reduces the loss, but does not always eradicate it
    Not sating this does not make a profit, but last week I was down and looking at the past 10 weeks it has got harder to make a profit.
    Maybe last week was a blip, but have decided to paper trade for a week, just to see.

  273. matth66 says:

    Oh forgot to add a couple of points. As frankwood states. Seem to be spending a lot more time watching the price movements than previously.
    Also I did speak to Lee and he couldn’t identify anything I was doing wrong.
    Hope for a better week

  274. PEPPIDOG says:

    Hoping it improves for you guys. Best of luck

  275. leestuartevans says:

    Last week ( including weekends which I advise is only for people more experienced ) we made £65 in total on £50 stakes. Whilst this is lower than previous weeks there are always going to be weeks that make more and weeks that make less. The previous 2 weeks to that made £193 and £326 so to say that the system is ‘deteriorating’ is hardly accurate.

    prior weeks, in order, before that were £102, £136 and £135 … so to be more accurate the system has been getting MORE profitable over the last few weeks. We are now up £2128 since launch on £50 stakes.

    I see this behaviour ( going back to paper trading or stop trading) in forex traders as well. They have a week where they dont do as well ( by the way last week was still profitable) so they dont trade for a week and miss out on the inevitable upswing. They then wade back in after seeing others make profit and find themselves losing when everyone else does and never winning when they sit out after a few bad trades.

    I let a beta tester last year turn a bot on and off whenever he felt like it ( watching his emotions on every winning and losing trade affect his judgement) on a long term forex trading system and as a comparison I left the bot on permanently on my account. His account halved …..mine doubled.

    I look at the system for its overall monthly profitability and dont tend to get to worried about individual days or weeks.

    Ive been working on this system for along time and live trading since April. Any short term observations for a few weeks or days trading are just that …short term. Ive had emails from people who say they think most of the horses win , ive had emails that say they think most of the horses lose and Ive had emails from people who tell me a certain day of the week is better than other . All are describing different parts of the same elephant. None seem to grasp the overall picture. Those that do send me emails telling me theyve made £1500 since the start etc etc .

    despite last week I still backed all 4 horses last night and guess what ? …. I’m up £30 already today. polar forest was the only sluggish trade of the day .

    Also this system does not require lots of management , you get an email from me every weekday around 10am giving you target prices and whats likely to happen and best time to cash out.

    If you have an issue or get stuck or its not going well for you , call or email me and ill help .

  276. leestuartevans says:

    those talking about matched betting here please STOP and THINK for a second.

    the rules for 2MT tell you to avoid mixing horses and football. Also many of the popular matched betting products out there STEAMROLL over the bookies and make you totally obvious as an arber. backing football for the draw at 4.0 and doing massive accumulators and backing arb horses at odds of 13 are all sure fire ways to get gubbed super fast.

    If you want to harvest free bets … use 2MT !!! back your horse as usual with the free bet and lay it out for a profit … and the profit from the free bet in the morning.

    easy peasy .

  277. leestuartevans says:


    great to hear of your epic day on Sunday. When I updated my trading sheet today I didnt check whether the horses won or lost and have also just noticed the peic BOGs from the weekend.

    I’ve been arguing my corner on here today about a ‘bad week’ last week where we ‘only ‘ made about £65 when in fact I made a whopping amount of money . I lecture all the members about checking bookie accounts against your betfair account when the horses win …. and then forgot to myself !

    I’ve just withdrawn money from my trading pot to pay for flights to Budapest next year , two running races I want to do and private concierge parking and VIP lounge at the airport for my dive trip after xmas . This is exactly what doing 2MT is all about !

  278. leestuartevans says:

    update … now ive added the BOGs from Sunday we actually made £288 last week on £50 stakes . We are now about a week away from hitting £2.5k since launch .

  279. Spudmeistered says:

    Good day today for me, made a little under £150 using £100 stakes, all prices dropped rapidly

  280. slochin says:

    Hello Lee,
    I placed my query here as I could not find any contact on your web site.Could you please answer the query raised dec 7th and let me know what your email address is as I do have some more questions.

  281. leestuartevans says:


    just respond to the selections email and ill get it from there or call the office on 01252 784390



  282. leestuartevans says:


    just found your question

    The system is profitable without BOG, BOG is just an added bonus. You will see reduced profits compared to other users though because you wont be able to use the recovery . There are some angles we can work to reduce your charges on the exchange and maybe get you access to BOG via other means. With the unusual situations with some members my best advice is to schedule a skype call with me at a crossover time and we can go through a checklist of tricks Ive picked up to maximise your advantages. get in touch via the selections email and we can see what we can do.

  283. matth66 says:

    Sorry Lee.

    Can’t argue this does make a profit. I am just having a bad couple weeks.

    I seem to keep missing the good days/trades and keep hitting the drifters and non bogs.
    When this started I seemed to be able to cash out at any point after 11am and overall make a profit, whereas now, I seem to have to look at 11am for some to get out then others an hour before or 20/30 minutes. This restricts my selections as I work shifts and at the moment I am having to do extra hours due to time of year. As I am public facing it is not practical for me to use my phone at work.
    Not been able to trade Monday-wednesday this week, so hopefully you can save some good ones for me Thursday and Friday please!!

  284. c19rta says:

    @Matth6 / @Lee

    This is a case of not everyones results will be similar due to laying at different times but for me last week I think I broke even, may have missed a few horses due to odds changing quite quickly on 365 but I’m not disappointed. Didn’t do the weekend trades and bang missed the BOG which was unfortunate! Just to point out I don’t use the recovery calculator ——- Sometimes I lay in running if the price drops big time just in case but I prefer the BOG when they come around.

    Once again I got sidetracked during a selection today and forgot to lay it! profited £150! won’t be taking phone calls when I’m due to lay in future that’s for sure..

  285. Winchmore says:

    Its been a couple of weeks since the last comment on this system. Can any of the members please give an update on how Two Minute Trader is progressing.

  286. stewardsenquiry says:

    Is this thing still going?

  287. stewardsenquiry says:

    It seems not

  288. Spudmeistered says:

    Yes its still going

  289. stewardsenquiry says:

    Oh…well that’s good. Thanks for that

  290. stewardsenquiry says:

    If I wanted to be sarcastic I would have been believe me. But I was simply saying thank you for letting me know somebody was here. If you looked at my first post along with that of @Winchmore we were actually trying to discover if this was still running as nothing had been posted in a while. So please just chill a bit. If you saw it as sarcasm then I am sorry

  291. stewardsenquiry says:

    And may I ask then how you are getting on with this? As there have not been any comments regarding this in over a month I was wondering if it had hit the rails in any way. I was interested in the concept but if the bookies have cottoned on then I will pass on it unfortunately

    • Spudmeistered says:

      It’s still going well and bookmakers haven’t caught onto it. Races are a little bit all over the place at the moment due to it being winter therefore many racecards are cancelled and horses dropping out of the races. Despite this, it’s still producing good profits.

  292. stewardsenquiry says:

    Thanks Spudmeistered. Will give it a month or two then to let the races settle down and then I will give this a whirl. Unless somebody comes on here with negatives comments that is. But I doubt that. The tumbleweed is rolling along this site. The place is pretty much deserted

  293. Spudmeistered says:

    Wow, this forum has died

    • Arcturus says:

      Surely it would need to be alive in the first place?

      • Spudmeistered says:

        It died, turned into a zombie, then died again

        • stewardsenquiry says:

          Hi Spudmeistered

          Are you still getting daily texts regarding this system? It seems it is no longer open to new people and nobody on here has posted about in a long time now. MInd you… nobody really seems to post on here full stop Have the wheels fallen off and the bookies sussed it? It is not filling me with confidence if it does become available that’s for sure.

          • Spudmeistered says:


            Yes I still get approximately 4 to 5 selections a day and for me, I’m still making a good profit every week. I have had only 1 bookie limited (skybet) but I was told that they are very cautious, so it was no surprise. I’m not too sure why this thread doesn’t have any activity anymore, there used to be 5-10 comments a day a couple of months ago, I don’t know what has happened since then.

  294. stewardsenquiry says:

    Maybe because this service is no longer available to newbies people are active on other threads instead? Who knows? Thanks for the reply though

  295. mike88 says:

    I’m still going with it, there was a downturn during January (for me anyway) resulting in smaller profits than the previous 2 months. My results so far, to £50 stakes, have been : Nov £625, Dec £442, Jan £180. The issues I have with the strategy are the practicalities of applying it. Firstly, you need to be on the ball every evening between around 17.30 – 21.00 ready to place the bookmaker bets. Although the bets take no time to place, if you get a large number of bets throughout the evening coming through (could be up to 11 bets to place some evenings), this may cause problems in having to top your accounts up. In addition to that, you need a large enough amount of cash in your Betfair account to lay them all off the following day! Some might say you don’t have to take all of the bets but it would be sods law that the ones you do take will be the losing ones and the ones you don’t take will be the winners! Therefore, you really need to be taking them all. Lee has now incorporated a recovery calculator within the members area but, again, for me personally, this is generally not possible to use if, like most people, you work during the day and cannot be ready to use it just before a race. I can see the value in it if you’re, say, retired, and can be available for each race that it needs to be used on. Like Spudmeistered above, I too have been limited by SkyBet using this system. All that said, I am still sticking with it and would recommend it depending on your circumstances. Its far more successful on paper than it is in reality but still gives a reasonable profit if you can dedicate yourself to it.

    • Spudmeistered says:

      Completely agree with you, you do have to be quite dedicated to this if you want to make a reasonable amount of money from it. Fortunately my manager at work doesn’t mind me using my phone, so I can utilise the recovery calculator efficiently. One problem that I have with this is that even though I’ve been using this for about 4 months, I still can not find the best time to place the lay bet for each trade to maximise the profit, for example, I place a lay bet which will overall make me £10 profit, then if I look back onto my betfair and if I would’ve waited another 5 minutes, I would’ve made £20 profit. Also, over the last 2 months, I’m finding that the prices of the horses are not really coming down (maybe 1 in 3), and I’m finding that the winning and losing trades are cancelling each other out and the only way that I’m making money is because of Best Odds Guaranteed. Despite this, I have made £4000 since the beginning of October which is excellent. The plan is, is to try and reach £10000 and then invest in something that is more profitable, but will have to do a lot of research to find a reliable, working product.

      • mike88 says:

        That’s great going, you’re doing much better than me! Like you, trying to find exactly when to place the lay bet is very variable for me. its fine looking at the graphs but they can soon change direction so it really is difficult to tell. Out of interest, after your comment regarding the BOG, I have just looked back at my January results and, without the BOG’s, I would have been around about breakeven.

  296. Spudmeistered says:

    It would be good if we could still keep this thread active as it would be nice to see how other people are getting on. Ever since the site changed from moremoneyreview to bettingrant, the posts on all threads seems to have dropped off. Hope to see more posts in the future.

    • mike88 says:

      I agree, I keep an eye on it most days but it really does seem to have died down. Not sure why really because the MMR website just directs you here anyway so it’s not like people don’t know where the reviews and comments have gone.

  297. Spudmeistered says:

    I’m guessing that’s me they’ve mentioned in their last email 🙂

  298. stewardsenquiry says:

    Oh dear. I thought I could start this off with a relatively small bank but from what I can glean now is that you will need a bit more to be able to cover the lay side of things. Disappointed now as i had been considering this for a while. It is closed I think at the moment but I will have to review things now. Maybe find something else that can build a bank in order to be able to get involved I think. What a bummer

  299. matth66 says:

    Decided to pack this in at the end of January.
    For the reasons stated above, having to be tied to your emails for 3.5 hours each evening and the reason mentioned above, with regards getting best lay prices and having the time to keep watching the odds.
    The selections seem to have grown from the initial 3-6 to upto 11! Which sounds great, but I felt it was more quantity than quality.
    I just found that as stated above if I missed any, sods law, they were the BOG winners. On the day with 11 selections I made £5, which didn’t really seem worth it.
    I found it frustrating and it could be quite time consuming with regards to checking prices.
    Overall, I made some money, but each month that was getting less and January was a break even.
    Good luck to those who persevere, but for me, to much disappoint I have called it a day

  300. stewardsenquiry says:

    Thanks for keeping us posted Stuart. Your post has finally pushed me off the fence and I have decided to leave this one alone. Best of luck going forward. Hopefully one day we will find that little genuine nugget that will bring in a few shillings each day

  301. Spudmeistered says:


    Was just reading through a few forums today mainly due to that there has been hardly any work for me to do all day, I saw you comment a few times on the football hedging systems a while back, was just wondering what you thought of it. Personally I tried it and I just couldn’t get the recovery side of it to work no matter how hard I tried. What is/was your point of view on these systems?


    • matth66 says:

      Hi Spudmeistered,

      Apologies for the delay in my reply.

      This is forum is for 2 minute trader, for which I have commented on above, so I will keep my response relatively brief.

      FHS does work, I just hated the liabilities that were sometimes generated when a game ” as likely as rocking horse poo” happened.

      And once you were in the recovery, you pretty much had to go with it, as the losses were growing each time another goal went in.

      I haven’t looked at the new simplified, back fill approach. But will do at some point.



  302. bertie says:

    has anybody else had emails from Tim with the improved 2minute plus trader, I do not have a smartphone and never had a tablet except for my blood pressure these days , now it sounds good but its the hanging around waiting for the signal to bet , Even when I had my last phone I did not walk around with it strapped to my left cheek like the kids today , should I get a phone or will my computer do the job ,So what are the improvements and should I go for it ,TIM anybody else richard

  303. Spudmeistered says:

    Is this still going?

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