Ultimate FX Predictor Review

| May 11, 2012

Product Name: Ultimate FX Predictor, The Ulitmate Forex Predicator 2.0

Author: Keith Cotterill

Company Name & Contact Details:
Canonbury Publishing Ltd,
Unit 1 Hainault Works,
Hainault Road,
Little Health,
Tel: 020 8597 0181


Part-time Forex Profit Raider!

Price: £486.75 +VAT x 4 payments = £1,947 + VAT = Total £2,336.40

It’s a 4 part payment offer – first payment immediately, 2nd after 30 days, 3rd after 60 days, 4th after 90 days.

Money Back Guarantee: 30 days

What Do You Get?

– Manual
– Ultimate FX Predictor Software disk
– Access to members area with training videos & forum
– UNLIMITED support

Brief Summary:

Keith Cotterill has created what he believes is the world’s first fully automated piece of Forex trading software. A tool that uses just two signals to navigate you through multiple profitable trades – a red light and a green light.

This is a tool that, once downloaded onto your PC and linked to the Internet, chooses your trades for you, suggests stakes based on your risk-profile, monitors the trade while it’s in progress, and tells you when to exit once your ‘pip target’ is reached.

What’s It All About?

This is a Forex system you slot into your day whenever it suits – in the morning, lunchtime or evening – letting you make in-out ‘profit raids’ of 10, 20 or 30 pips or more each day. You just switch on the software, wait for the alarm signalling a trade is on, follow the prompts and grab your pips.

It’s a plan that’s proven to work for currency newbies and those who’ve been around the Forex block before – if you’re conservative, safely siphon £100 to £350 tax-free each week with stakes as small as 50p or go a little higher and bring in £1,100 plus a week. All profits are tax free.

This is a strategy you can repeat dozens of times each week – whenever you have a spare few minutes. You just turn on your computer, sit back and wait to be told exactly when and how to profit by either a red or a green dot.

Do I Need Experience To Make This Work?

The promotional material states that you need no Forex experience to use this tool as the system does everything for you and all you need to do is follow the signals.  There is also the support team on hand to help if you are stuck on anything.

How Much Money Can I Make?

Keith claims that you can earn up to £1000 a week using £5 stakes. He also claims that this system will be profitable within 48 hours of downloading it. However you may find that you need more time to get to grips with the system before you start making any profits.

How Much Time Will I Need To Make This Work?

Forex trading can slot into your day whenever it suits – in the morning, lunchtime or evening. You can spend as much or  as little time as you like depending on how much you want to make. Obviously the more money you want to make, the more time you’ll have to spend trading.

Will I Need Any Equipment To Do This?

A PC with broadband internet.

Quality Of Customer Service?

Very good customer telephone and email support to help you along the way. The technical support team are very approachable, and only too keen to help you with all your questions about the course. All emails are answered within 24 hours (weekdays) and often sooner.

There is a member’s only website which has lots of trading examples up there for you to watch.

You have a 30 day trial to test out the system. If you are not completely satisfied you can return the product within 30 days for a full refund of the course fee.

Update: 11th May 2012

Nick and Keith are releasing The Ulitmate Forex Predicator ( TUFXP) again this week after removing it from the market in 2009.     Keith Cotterill has a good reputation as a teacher of trading methods, with other products covering commodities and smaller time frames on the FX markets.    Keith made his name back in the 1990’s with the release of his first programme called Don’t Tell The Professionals and followed that up with a product called The Trading Edge.   As a commodites expert it was no surprise that he was an indemand presenter and author of such programmes.

His move into Forex is a natural one and having such indepth knowledge of various trading programmes the release of the original TUFXP was a breakthrough for traders. The clear indication of trading opportunities made this  trading more appealing and this programme enabled many people to take a first step into Forex trading.

It’s unclear yet changes Nick and Keith have made to this The Ulitmate Forex Predicator 2.0  version but as soon as we are able to we’ll run this this new programme and let you know our thoughts.    We’ll also for those who were fans of the original product, detail the differences so you can make a decision on whether it’s worth upgrading to The Ulitmate Forex Predicator 2.0.

UPDATE – 15th November 2013:

We have been notified that the Ultimate FX Predictor software package has been revised and updated and is no longer being sold in the format that was reviewed here.  We hear that a brand new version of the software is in production and will be released soon. We will keep you updated on its release.


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Category: CD-ROMS, Forex Trading Systems, Trading & Investing, Trading Systems

Comments (190)

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  1. Gerry says:

    You did not mention the fact that you need to pay for a “feed” of forex info – depending upon exchange rate approx £40/£50 per month as I recall

  2. RB says:

    The Ultimate FX Predictor (TUFXP) by Keith Cotterill is a software package generating audible and visual indications of potential trades.

    The signals come in two ‘varieties’: an unconfirmed trade when the setup is still forming, then a confirmed trade when the setup is complete. An unconfirmed trade may not become confirmed.

    The system trades on 5, 10, 15, 30 and 60 minute time-frames and is not recommended on anything below 5 minutes. They recommend the top 5 pairs to trade as:

    Taking the confirmed signal, the system was producing a 20% success rate – i.e. if all the confirmed signals were taken as trades, 4 out of 5 of them would be stopped-out.

    So now we come to the discretionary part of the system. The part most people are likely to have problems with and require the most help on. The decisions were based on levels of support/resistance, determining trend, use of 3 moving averages, checking news releases and 0%, 50% and 100% extensions.

    After two weeks of losing (paper) trades, I contacted the author for support on what could be going wrong. My support request resulted in a telephone call from a very helpful support team member who explained to me how he used the system, with his own set of rules. I applied these for another two days and was still seeing my (paper) account dwindle. Another support request and another phone call (this time with a helpful lady) and another way of applying the discretionary rules.

    Applying these rules still did not turn the system around, so I put in another support request. I was contacted by a third member of the team who gave me a third way of applying the rules, including not using a stop-loss as the “broker is obviously stop-hunting”. So, 3 support requests, 3 different people responding, with 3 different (very different) ways to apply discretionary rules.

    At this point, I asked to speak to the author, reasoning that the man behind the system would be the best man to turn my trades around. I was told that speaking to Keith “would not be possible”.

    In my opinion, the degree of knowledge required by the user was too great. If they know how to check news, support/resistance, trends etc. then they would not need the software. If they don’t know about these things, they’ll have every expectation that the £2000 software will do it all for them.

    Additional requirements not mentioned in the original advert was the IQFeed data feed required for the system. While not expensive (and certainly not an obstacle if the system is making money for you), this should have been made clear from the start.

    In summary this is a hybrid system, not simple enough for newcomers and bringing nothing new to experienced traders.

    Profitability: 2/10
    Support : 0/10

  3. Theresa says:

    I bought it in May 2008 and sent it back. Bought it at a time when there was a ‘one off’ £500 discount if bought before a certain date. As you would have noticed, this one-off offer has been repeated again and again and again! The initial signal for a possible trade would turn into a definite signal but as soon as I went into the trade, it changed and the signal went the other way….. This happened many times and after a few days of following and as many others have since found out, watched my betting bank decrease in size. Asked for a refund and got one straight away so at least there’s something positive!

  4. Slim says:

    Ultimate FX Predictor. Now we have an instalment plan, courtesy of course of the usual JV partners! Has anyone been using this? And made money or found it any easier than previous posts here?

  5. Slim says:

    Hello again, anyone using Ultimate FX Predictor. Latest blurb still mentions checking news releases (understandable) but still no mention of checking support/resistance, determining trend, use of 3 MAs and “0%,50%,100% extensions” (whatever extensions are — please excuse my ignorance, RB!). Has the new system simplified all this or is the blurb still just misleading us into thinking it is so very simple? Many thanks all.

  6. John M says:

    Ultimate FX Predictor – In an effort to balance opinions up a little I’d recommend people have a look at the Cash Master blog as Graham Laurie has been trialling this for a long time. He provides a separate page showing the settings he uses and reports each day on his results. I’m not necessarily lauding TUFXP but at least there is another point of view to consider.
    And just a reminder that you will need to pay for a data feed to use the system so be aware when looking at the overall cost of ownership

  7. Slim says:

    Many thanks, John M, for your advices on Ultimate FX Predictor. I have now seen Graham’s blog for all the days since he started it. I have yet to contact Graham with a couple of questions but would you agree it still seems this is not for relative novices? Of late, Graham and his equally-experienced readers have been exchanging views on the use or not of Daily Pivots and TESS 100% stop losses. I accept that any system can be tweaked along the way but this must be “Chinese” for any novice such as I. Not as simple as Keith Cotterill claims? Anyway, do you know please, John M, if Capital Spreads is OK for this or is IG the ideal broker? Many thanks again.

  8. hubo says:

    I bought tufxp about 2 years ago and was about to give up.But when they revamped it to tufxp2
    it improved.Now I follow Graham Laurie cash master blog’s method and allways do well. when
    I move away from his method I loose.

    Go and see for yourselves the daily results are there for all to see at cash master blog

    Most days I am finished by 8.30 leaving the rest of the day free


  9. Slim says:

    Is anyone using tufxp2, apart from Hubo? Are any of you also following Graham Laurie’s cash master method? How is it is going since your last post here, Hubo? Many thanks all.

  10. John Wheatland says:

    Hi guys,

    I’ve had TUFXP for over a year now and went in a little naive. If left to your own devices I have no doubt you’d blow up any acc but if you apply a little knowledge and rules, then yes it is possible to make money.

    Don’t be fooled into thinking TUFXP 2 is a major update though, all they’ve done is added some colour MAs and PSAR function…hardly earth shattering upgrades.

    Would I buy it if I knew what I know now? Doubtful but through hard work I’m finally making it pay.

  11. Tony says:

    Hi all, I have just discovered this thread. I have had TUFXP for 2 years now and my initial use before I went to work just lost me money as most of the trade indications get stopped out and you loose. I was only using 50p trades but I soon lost my initial £200 pot and got disallusioned and stopped using it. I was recently in between day job contracts and decided to start using it again. I listened to some of the TUFXP overviews (each one 50mins long!)and tried to ‘learn’ so I could choose the trades more likely to give profits. It’s not worked for me though, I may get 1 out of 5 trades to give me a profit. You just need to know so much and be able to analyse each potential trade to know if it is going to be profitable, not what I was led to believe on purchase. Maybe I’ll have a look at Cash master Blog (does anyone know the address?). Thanks.

  12. Tony says:

    Hi Natalia, thanks for the link. What a shame I didn’t have this straight forward guidence some weeks ago whislt I have been off work! When he says he will put his results on the blog, is that the same address as above (excuse me being thick but I don’t use blogs). Has he posted results from his previous use? Tony

  13. Natalia says:

    Hi Tony,

    You need to look every day on todays date (on the calendar ) and he puts up his results.


  14. JS says:

    I bought TUFXP in August 2009. After 6 months losing money the new program reached me. Although it looks little changed from the previous version, it is in fact quite different: The Daily Pivot and the support and resistance lines are a huge help, but the main change is that the buy and sell signals are better.

    It took me a further 5 months to work out how to use it. One of the support team gives a tutorial 3 days per week, in which he shows us how to decide whether a given signal is good to trade or not. He contradicts himself quite often. For example he showed us a losing trade and pointed out that the signal appeared on a very small bar and therefore should have been avoided. A week or so later, he showed us a profitable trade on the same small bar and said it was a trade to take.

    However, his tutorials (which he calls a Market Overview) are very good at showing us what to look for. But we are required to make a judgement on each signal , often within a matter of seconds, and for me this is impossible.

    I have therefore come up with a set of rules or criteria that must be met to confirm a signal as good to trade.

    For about 5 or 6 months these criteria gave me an overall success rate of a about 73% i.e. 27% of trades lost money. However, the past 4 weeks have been much harder to trade because prices are erratic just now, but I am still getting an overall success over 6 months of above 60%.

    In conclusion, this software does work, but you need a set of rules to follow, so that trading is more mechanical. The originator of the software and his support team make claims that are misleading. They need to publish a set of rules for trading, but I have mentioned my system to them and they are not interested. It’s a puzzle.

    I am very reluctant to publish my system in case it does not work for others and I don’t wish to lose anyone more money. If any readers have an email address that they are happy to release here, I will contact them – but perhaps this is not allowed on this site?

  15. JS says:

    The criteria I use for trading TUFXP are all available on the TUFXP software. They are simple, but there are some 6 or 7 additional criteria and it is therefore necessary to use them in back testing so that they are learned by heart, before using them in live trading.

    My aim was not so much to identify good signals, but rather, to identify probable losing signals so that I avoid them.

    If anyone is interested, please contact me through Jack Whitman. JS

  16. kev says:

    had this system for over a year but cant get it to pay,look at all the overviews but doesnt seem to increase my trading a/c. i would like to get in touch with the two people who have reviewed above, thank you.

  17. INB says:

    I tried for about 2 years to make the TUFXP system work but it just kept losing money and could never pay for the feed required. Although it might work in the right hands, the claims made for it being a simple ‘point and shoot’ system are just wrong. It has however introduced me to forex trading and I am now getting some positive results using a combination of other cheaper systems.

  18. free stuff says:

    INB = ” I am now getting some positive results using a combination of other cheaper systems. ”

    Come on INB, spill the beans!

  19. Leigh says:

    I have had the same problems as the ones above , had the system for two years, I would like to get in touch with JS above and see what method he is trading on TUFXP

  20. Jack says:

    I have bought the Ultimate FX Predictor and also the ATM-FX and both and I have found it difficult to get consistwent profits from. I bought the UFFXP around 2 years ago.
    Interested to see what the reviews are. I dont want to pay them anymore but any little adjustments might be helpful

  21. H says:

    I purchased TUFXP and ATM-FX and found them to be over-priced and overhyped. TUFXP costs £2k+ so why if Keith has found the “next best system” I’ll ever need is he charging £187?? The marketing ploys used by publishers is shocking…they are playing on the fact that there are so many people wanting to find something that works…and they’ll keep pushing it out…I might just create a system called FX-360 fill in the gaps left by Keith and sell it…hmmm I think i’ll add a 197 bar Moving Average.

  22. Jack says:


    I agree they are a joke, If people read between the lines and ask themselves if they sold a product for 2k then followed it up wcharging another £200 for the ATM-FX claiming it was the answer to trading on FX why are they selling yet another method for £200 ish making the same old claims. It would appear from their marketing page its to do with Stochs running out of the over bought/ oversold with some reading of the candlesticks for the trigger. I too will be giving this a miss like a previous poster.

  23. stephen a says:

    my problems with keith cotterill is this i was charge £2300 for the tufxp system that didnt really work , fair enough a heavy loss, but then he brings out the atmfx for £247 odd at the beginning of this year which i again paid for, only for him to put the same atmfx on the origanal tufxp system & call it tufxp2 new and improved i call that a scam, now its ATMFX180 that would cost 187 odd tested by the same people as the previous 2 systems, why wernt people given these systems as upgrades on the tufxp system ?

  24. NIck Laight says:


    Sorry to hear you didn’t get on with TUFXP – you didn’tmen tion whether r you sought the help of the support team who can usually identify alternative approaches that could help you succeed.

    As you will appreciate ATMFX is an entry level strategy and not related to TUFXP apart from it focuses on FX. Although an element of it was used in TUFXP – it was automated and there were also many other new featiures as part of TUFXP2.

    Most importantly, exisiting TUFXP users received the software upfgrade for free. We also made it very clear to exisitng users that it was not necessary to buy ATMFX.

    FX180 is a completely different strategy and can be applied across all markets and time frames – something that TUFXP does not do.

  25. MAS says:

    I have also tried to get TUFXP to work for over 2 years and not had one profitable month. I’ve worked at it full time and probably ruined my eyes in the process – staring at a laptop all day! By chance I found Piptastic on ebay (check out the review here) which has given me my first profitable month in November (albeit a small one). Through Piptastic I found Marketsmastered which I’m now paper trading – they give great support. I’ve cancelled my IQFeed! I may go back to it once I know how to trade – the best part of TUFXP is the charting facilities. Oh, also check out Steve Nison on the internet to learn about candle patterns – he has lots of free video blogs to watch.

  26. Jack says:

    Nick Laight, I am amazed that you come on here and try and defend the TUFXP. The method in its standard form does not work. That is of course unless you believe the Overviews from Mr Spare. Always done in hindsight, why does he not pick one day a week and record an actual trade? then we will see how easy it is, none of this after it has happened. I challenge you or anyone to follow these signals and win consistently enough money over 3 or 4 months and beyond. There are still far too many rogue signals. As for your helpline I gave up as it took so long to get someone althought to be fair this may well have inmproved. There is also the cost of the feed every month.

  27. Nick Laight says:

    Jack – I never came on here to defend TUFXP specifically because I don’t believe it needs defending! I am sorry to hear that you have not made it work for yourself, but the overviews are not core to the strategy – Neil can’t give future indications as that would be in contravention of FSA regulations.

    You do not mention anywhere whether you have sought assistance form the support team and I would encourage you to talk to them as they are very good at giving appropriate guidance to make the strategy work for you.

    Although I don’t want to undermine your experience in any way, there are plenty of people who are making money with TUFXP and I would encourage you to seek help from support so you can join them.

  28. John Wheatland says:

    Lol support and TUFXP are an oxymoron. I’ve had TUFXP for 18 months or so and I’d class the support as next to none.

  29. John Wheatland says:

    That is not to take away from this strategy as I’ve not seen it so will not clog up this thread any further. Gl to Keith with this, would be interested to hear the review.

  30. Nick Laight says:

    John – how strange – we have a great support team and they are always available to help. Could you email me directly with details of who you have worked with and felt that they have NOT given you the level of support you expect? nicklaight@yahoo.co.uk

    We take customer service very seriously and I want to make sure that your experience matches the high standards I insist we provide.

  31. John says:

    Having purchased Illuminati trader. Wealth Builder.TUFXP. ATMFX at a cost of aprox 5k plus
    loosing a further 4k lost on trading.
    I will not be buying another product from Keith Cotterill.If ATMFX was a ‘bit of fun’
    as Nick Laight says.Well FX 180 must be hilarious then.
    Have you ever wondered why you do not see Keith trade live. Or Keith say what trades he did or did not not take.I do not think they even trade at all.As for the FSA regulations.This is rubbish There are many who publish their results such as Forex Net Trap and London Forex Open. OK some may be after the event but they are there for the world to see
    As regards the support from TUFXP some is good some is bad. The lady is very good. John Crossley was very abrupt when I wanted help when I needed help understanding the software.All the team on TUFXP seem to have their own criteria.
    Neil’s overviews often do not happen,owing to his P.C. breaking down or one of his coughs or colds.He does not reply to my emails.
    I can not print what I truly think about ALL the people involved in this dishonesty.
    How do they sleep at night?

  32. Jack says:

    Well John, I recon you have sorted that little debate.
    I have added extra Filters and seem close but my problems now are mybad experiences with trading I just jump out too early on the winners and leave the losers.
    I do think I am nearly there though.
    Back to your last post, it is so accurate and I agree with what I have found for myself.

  33. Nick Laight says:

    John – I very much value your feedback although I am sure you know that I strongly disagree with your assessment.

    I have personally decided that we should not provide future indications as I believe this is a grey area for the FSA and anyone who currently does it is likely to be targeted in the future. Whether you accept this or not is up to you, but I did not want to compromise the future of TUFXP or the service provided to users.

    Neil Spare ALWAYS answers his emails and I would encourage you to cc me into any future correspondence so that I can ensure they are responded to in the usual manner.

    It is also worth noting that the overviews are FREE – they are provided complimentary to TUFXP users. We don’t have to do them and indeed we used to charge a subscription for them (as many others do). However we felt that it was more important to deliver additional value to the users and decided to give them away.

    I take all feedback on my products very seriously – I can assure you that I do not ‘take the money and run’ but care very deeply about what I publish and the well being of my customers. And that is why I will do all I can to make sure that you can optimise your experience with TUFXP and would encourage you to email me directly so that I can organise the necessary help.


  34. Jason says:

    Nick is very good at defending his rubbish programs. I bought the TUFXP, it is the most complicated, trading strategy ever. I made no money from it and no sane person will. I dont care what Nick says, other people have made money, prove it then. The support staff, never pick up the phone, and when you do get through, they bamboozle you with trading science for the professional. At least you can see the American trading gurus coming.

  35. Nick Laight says:

    Jason – You’ll be glad to heard I’m not the litigious type. I am and never have been a scam artist – by definition you are implying that I am illegally ripping people off in some way.

    I am not and pride myself on pursing business in an ethical and honest manner.

    I won’t bother defending against your various accusations which are not based on fact but a seething cynicism towards me and anyone else who publishes trading strategies.

    As I have said quite openly here, anyone who is a TUFXP users has access to unlimited lifetime support and I would encourage anyone who feels they have lost their way trading to contact the team immediately. They do answer emails and their telephones despite Jason’s accusations. Oh and do remember that you NEVER have to pay for the software upgrades . . . or the overviews . . .

  36. Nick Laight says:

    Jason – I can’t really let you cast aspersions on my entire business either – you are making blanket statements that I am a liar and my products worthless – again this seems to be based on a emotional rather than any objective assessment. Nevertheless I would welcome your specific critique of anything I publish so that I have a chance to defend my name and that of my company.

  37. stephen a says:

    i get the impression that most people that purchased this tufxp system where not only annoyed that they paid £2300 for a system that does not work and the annoying overviews, but the damn right kick in the goolies was the cheek of charging customers £60 a month for the tess software that is not only out of date But 75% of the signals come way too late, and thats when tess is actually working, i REPEAT why does mr cotterill need to bring other trading systems out if he already makes a whole bunch of money trading tufxp? his excuses in his sales letters that nobody would use it if he let customers test it for free in the first place are GARBAGE

  38. Nick Laight says:

    Stephen – But there are people who invested in the system who do make money . . . also the datafeed costs are clearly stated upfront so anyone who feels this is too much can make their decision before buying.

    You NEVER have to pay for the actual software after the initial payment and all software upgrades are free (take note Mircosoft!)

    Keith has brought out very few strategies – Don’t Tell The Professionals used his TES approach on end of day commodities and then equities. TUFXP uses the same strategy but is for forex and uses proprietary software.

    ATMFX was an entry level strategy that would appeal to those who did not feel that TUFXP was for them. While FX180 is a standalone that can be used across all markets and time frames. So 5 strategies over 15 years doesn’t seem so excessive. Also, Keith loves to teach and share his ideas with others and I don’t see why him charging for his expertise should be cause for outrage.

    And although I value your opinion on why we don’t give the strategy away fro free, we will have to agree to disagree. Thankfully we live a a free market economy with plenty of competition and it is your right to go and find an alternative supplier who you believe can offer you a better value proposition.

  39. stephen a says:

    if there are people that have made the tufxp work with the exception of 1 or 2 people nobody on any forum has a good word to say about it people like neil spare, louise woof , and the rest of your normal beta testers shouldnt count beacuse they get paid regardless, i still want to know why you keep using the same beta testers for these wonder systems ? if thety are that good lets have some of the potential customers test them, not keiths partners

  40. Nick Laight says:

    Stephen – I’m afraid your supposition is incorrect.

    WIth the exception of Neil Spare (who was a former customer and became a support team member for ATMFX and now FX180), everyone is independent – either former customers or taken from my own database at random. In Neil’s case we wanted someone who was well versed in trading and would give us a professional opinion.

    Louise Woof has never been a beta tester for anything Keith has produced (or any other strategy that I am aware of).

    We get at least 15 people to beta test all new strategies – they do NOT get paid to test. They do it because they have expressed an interest. We ask for their honest opinions to help us improve the product and get as close to a realistic potential performance.

    As to the opinion on forums I cannot comment – perhaps the people who make money from strategies choose not to spend their time on them?

  41. free stuff says:

    I may be completely off kilter here, but is JS, John Simon who is doing a blog here –



  42. george says:


    I am a TUFXP user from the very beginning and still enjoy it. Those slagging it off probably have not bothered to learn to trade. This is where the TUFXP hype goes wrong – it suggests you just sit waiting for the signal, then trade. This is wrong. You do need to work it properly and staying out of a poor trade is as important as getting in a good one. I wonder whether the FX180 is the same – perhaps you could give us an honest view. Also, I bought ATMFX and, whilst the system may or may not work, I did feel aggrieved that having bought it, it turns up as an upgrade on TUFXP rendering it superfluous. This is not so say I don’t want TUFXP upgraded of course, but is this new one likely to end up like that?

    As far as proof that TUFXP works is concerned, I would urge anyone to have a look on Graham Laurie’s Cash-Master Blog site, where it is traded day by day.

    Can you please let us know before tomorrow’s offer expires, the answer to these questions, otherwise, I am afraid, I too will pass.

    Neil Spare’s overviews, whilst many mock him, do have value and if viewed properly do contain some useful nuggets. I have always has responses to emails within 24 hours, though I have never phoned him or your other support members.

    To all those who think I am associated with Cannonbury, I’m not. I too have suffered Louise Woof and one or two others.

  43. JAH says:

    Are you still using there standard settings(on tufxp) ? or have you tweaked it a bit?
    I seem to have a winning week followed by a loosing week & going nowhere fast!
    Any help appreciated, also find Neil helpful & replies to my emails,but when leaving phone messages no-one responds.

  44. stephena says:

    as previously stated ive got nothing against nick or cannonbury as ive said ive previously brought systems that have work , my problem is in partuicular the tufxp system , whichever settings i used for it over the last 2 years its still fails, as i said it appears that the signals come after the markets have already moved

  45. hubo says:

    Have a look at cash master blog. Graham’s system worked well for some time. There is very detailed daily blog on TUFXP with a coservative metod

  46. hubo says:

    TUFXP MK 2 is more or less MK 1 with the ATM FX added on makimg it TUFXP2

  47. george says:


    Yes, I still use the standard settings, I trade from 6 a.m. (although lately it has been more often 7 a.m. and I finish at 8.30 a.m., unless I am in a trade, thereby missing most of the news announcements and in any case I don’t want to trade all day long.

    I don’t go for the ‘big ones’ – I am quite happy to get 10 pips a day and if I finish the week with 40 that’s fine. I don’t any longer ‘gag’ for trades and now actively look for reasons not to enter one. Many days lately I have sat and not taken any trades at all and find this is better than my previous ‘must trade at all costs’ mindset. I know I miss loads of good high value trades, but find my new style more relaxing. I trade off the 5 min.timeframe but also watch 2 minute and 10 minute charts to help me decide.

    I ain’t gonna be a millionaire at this, but depending on stakes, it does me. Much easier to get a few points regularly than trying to run everything to max. I always blow up trying to do that. Good luck. Keep at it – if you are not losing you are doing well. Don’t know how long you have been using TUFXP, but it took me a good 2 years to ‘get it’.

  48. Mike says:

    Please pass my e-mail to JS. Thanks

  49. Roger Dee says:

    Another struggler with TUFXP – if you could please pass my email to JS = thanks

  50. george says:

    First day back trading. 2 trades, 2 wins, 65 pips profit before 8.15 a.m.

    What a lousy system eh, TUFXP knockers?

  51. Mike says:

    Hi George,
    You must be doing it right, would you be willing to share your methods please?

  52. george says:

    Hi, Mike

    I have no special system. I use the TUFXP2 programme at the recommended settings with the addition of a 50 SMA to be used as shown by Neil. I take note of the pivot points and resistance and support levels. Have a look at my previous post. I don’t generally go for big wins but that does not mean I won’t take them if they are there to be had without much risk. If you look at the early morning charts today, it was a no brainer – all one way traffic pretty much. I came out at 8.15, but if I’d stayed in another hour, I could have had another 90 pips.

    As I said previously, you must learn to trade and it has taken me 2 years of trying and paying for the feeds and trading losses. If you expect to trade from day one in profit just using the signals, you are going to be disppointed. I probably ignore more signals than I take.

    Just keep at it is all I can offer. Someone once said, the harder you work, the luckier you get.

  53. No signals on my 5 min TUFXP chart this a.m and the ‘no brainer’ trend was where? GU shot up prior to the UK data…the trend was clearly DOWN prior to that.

  54. Mike says:

    Hi George,
    Thanks for that reply.
    I’ve just discovered this site, I think it’s great!
    A lot of good interesting comments; its great to know that I’m not the only person who can’t make TUFXP work.

    In the mid 1990’s a data provider introduced me to Keith Cotterill saying that he may be able to help me with trading commodities.
    Keith invited me to his home on several occasions and gave me lots of advice about trading Commodities. At the time Keith was just becoming a successful trader, after a long struggle.
    He was determined to make it work for him, but just as determined to help all small traders to beat the markets.
    Keith Cotterill is the most helpful, honest and genuine man I have ever met.

    But I just couldn’t make a success of trading.

    I changed to Forex trading when Keith first released TUFXP and I have received lots of support.
    But I still can’t make a success of trading.

    I think it’s like having a workshop manual and a tool kit, some people would be able to fix the car, but others would not be able to figure it out.

    The software is good, the support is good, there are people making a good living from trading TUFXP but I just can’t figure it out.

    In the end it’s down to me not the software or the vendor.

    This morning I traded the signal to go long at 6-50am with a 20 pip stop. After the first loss, I felt the resistance at the moving averages and the daily pivot was too strong at 1.5500 so I didn’t take the second signal.

    I am as determined as ever and I will keep trying, it would be great to share ideas, information and disappointments with anyone who is trying to make TUFXP and Forex trading work.

  55. george says:

    Hi, John

    Hate to disagree with you, but I will. This seems to prove Mike’s point about 2 people seeing different things. Here’s my thinking.

    The Asian session was flat to up until about 4 am, then a fall of about 50 pips. This was a support area on Fibonacci levels. There were actually 3 long signals this morning – a PTP at 06.45 then a Super PTP at 6.50 but as already in trade this did not count. Then another at 8.10. The first signal easily made the 20 pip scalp, below the DP and entry was 25 pips ealier. The RSI was strongly up – this was clearly a turn.

    By the time the 8.10 signal was in, the RSI was steeply up again and from then on the candles came nowhere near the 20 EMA or the 50 SMA and the parabolics were green all the way.It did not shoot up just prior to the news, (except that the 9.30 candle was the longest one), it was steadily climbing all the time from 8.10 and continued in a straight line right through the news.
    Looking back now, the marketeventually turned right on cue on R2.

    Who says it doesn’t work?

    Anyway, what are you doing with this – I thought AutoFocus was your thing?

  56. george says:

    Hi, Mike

    Sorry you lost out this morning. I think your stop loss was too tight at 20 – I use 35 pips. The PTP gave a risk of 33 and it came nowhere near this – you should have had a winner.

    I would lower your stake and increase your stop loss size. As Keith says, more people lose money trying to avoid losses than anything else. Tight stop losses mean smaller losses, but more of them. If you have a bigger one, you can always come out if you want to a bit earlier, but at least give youself a chance to see which way the wind is blowing.

    Hope of assistance.

  57. Mike says:

    Thanks George I’ll try that

  58. Roger Dee says:

    Hi George

    thanks for your viewpoint. I am still struggling with this even after 18 months and listening to Neil Spare. However like Mike I took a view on the fact that it was the first real day of trading after the break and the market could have been all over the place.

    I also took a view on the 8.05 signal and considered how close the DP was to 15500. Also with Stochastics I was seeing an over bought signal. “Analyse to paralyse” comes to mind. Should have just gone with the signal I suppose.

    I have not used RSI before and would be interested to know what setting you use on that and what do you need to look out for?

    Fortunately Daily Index Trader paid out this morning so not all bad!.

  59. george says:

    Hi Rog,

    Wow – DIT paid out today? Well done. Do keep us all posted if it continues.

    RSI is much the same as stochastics – no settings, just click the button on your charts. I find that RSI is a little sharper in it’s ups and downs – stochs seem to be slow and loopy.
    I had another look at yesterday for you and the 8.10 trade was not actually oversold, although because of the way stochs works it is not all that clear. Try RSI and you will see the same movement but RSI showing only half way between 10 and 90 at the signal. The fact that it then goes up sharply means there is buying about. Like other levels, they are not exact and need some opinion, given by the parabolics and EMA/SMA. You could easily have waited intil 15500 was through. Why not keep both on your charts for a while and see what happens?

    Regarding first trading day after hols, my opinion is that there often a correction. I feel this is because when the real traders are away the office boys are playing. Look at the daily charts and you will see, they took the GBP down from mid month but when the boys come back they take it back up towards where it was before. This is something I could not understand about John Wheatland’s comments – the daily charts have been in an upward curve for several days. Also, I think that after a move like that, there is likely to be a period of sideways trading before the next leg up. Just an opinion of course.

    Regarding whole numbers, they are not always a stopper – sometimes when one has gone through it will power on to the next. Sorry this is so long, but hope it might help a litlle bit.


  60. JAH says:

    Thanks George, I’m sticking with it! There have been good signals the last 2 days. I’ve gone back to the original GG cashmaster method,I backtested this over christmas with very encouraging results.

  61. Mike says:

    Hi Roger,

    How is the DIT doing?

  62. Mike says:

    Hi George and Roger,

    There it was at 7am this morning, all the Ducks lined up!
    The Asian session sideways to down, a small correction followed by a strong red candle, 20 and 50 MA’s red and well spaced, signal candle closed below the low of the Asian session, parabolic red and a strong red entry candle, obvious init? Traders are selling off yesterday’s gains. THIS IS THE ONE!

    Then three bars later there is a long PTP!

    Not to worry prices, often do this and then reverse. BUT the question now is do you reverse the trade if the entry price is hit or do you hold until the stop is hit? I have seen examples of both actions being the right one at different times. Another consideration is the DP is just above the entry point, and 1.5600 is not very far above the DP.
    What a dilemma!!
    I reversed when the entry bar closed above the DP but I had little faith that it was the right thing to do.
    I set a 35 pip stop and a 30 pip limit but I expected to close out at 20 pips. I dithered at 20 pips, dithered again at 25 pips and then the limit was hit. A good mornings work; 30pips before 8am!

    Trouble is I didn’t trade Monday, Tuesday I lost 20 pips, Today I lost 24 pips then made 30 pips. So down 14 pips on the week.

    How did you two get on?

  63. JAH says:

    Hi Mike
    Are you talking about the long trade @7.15? I cant see how you made 30 pips, I went for this & got stopped out! I wasn’t that confident because of the DP…& I was right!

  64. george says:

    Hi Mike & Jah

    Didn’t trade yesterday or today – hospital appointments, but I’ll try to have a look later today.

    I suspect that it is a question of judgement and no amount of signals or indicators will give you that – only time, patience and observation. Without even opening the charts, I think I can say I would not have taken a short, with the long trend (daily) up, but it’s silly to talk without seeing so I’ll leave it for now.

    Jah, glad you are back. Whichever system you use, stick to it – chopping and changing is a sure way to drain your account. Problem with the Cashmasters system is you are required to take the signals whether good or bad? Anyway if it works over time keep at it – no good going from trade to trade or day to day.

  65. JAH says:

    Thanks George, I managed to get 10 pips back from the next one, like you say best to stick to the system but try to read the charts. I woild have been ok with a larger stop of 35, something to think about, I have been using 25..

  66. Mike says:

    Hi Jah and George
    Yes the signal bar was at 7-20, GBP/USD 5minute chart and qualified at 7-35.
    I wanted prices to close above the DP, which the qualifying bar did, so I went long at 1.5569 at about 7-40 ish.
    After my entry, prices went to a high of 1.5627 my limit of 1.5599 was hit at 7-45

    Did you get a response from Jack Whiteman or JS? I haven’t so far.
    7 am this morning and another short signal with all the indicators red so I went short. Only one candle in the right direction and a reversal with a long PTP again!!
    Do I hold or do I reverse???
    The reversal came off the low of the Asian session so I reversed and went long at 1.5520; taking a loss of 19pips on the short trade. I set a 30pip stop and 30pip limit on the long trade.
    Prices quickly went through 20pips and came off; I sat looking at the offer of 20pips profit for what seemed like ages but was probably only a few seconds but I decided to wait for 30pips.
    I really regretted that decision! The next candle was red and took me into a loss AND produced a short PTP which qualified!
    Do I hold or do I reverse???
    I decided to reverse when prices closed below the Asian session low, but prices held above. After a long bumpy ride I was offered 20pips again so I took it! Two candles later my limit would have been hit – Dam it!!
    Result 18pips LOSS 21pips PROFIT at the end of all that stress I made 3pips

  67. JAH says:

    Hi Mike
    Sorry, I thought you meant today, yes easily hit 30 yesterday morning!

  68. Mike says:

    Hi Jah,

    Sorry you were stopped out today.
    That happens to me a lot, so I try to place the stop below a recent low or high, but having the faith to hold it in the face dramatic price movements is something else! I don’t like to take losses over 20 pips.

  69. george says:


    Oh Dear, oh dear. 3 pips and 3 years off your life!!

    Don’t want to dampen your enthusiasm, butwhy do you keep taking these shorts when they are counter-trend?

    If you’d just stuck to the long side you would have been quids in.

    Put a trend line on your daily chart at the lows and you will see. On the other hand a trend line of the highs gives a wedge – i.e. consolidation and low range. I am not going to trade again until this is broken – like I said to Roger this is going sideways. Include me out!

  70. george says:


    Stop losses – if you keep to 1 or 2 percent max on a trade, then 20 pip losses won’t give you heart attacks. 35 pips just mean a lower stake. Lower profits, certainly, but safer in the long run and that is what counts.

  71. Mike says:

    Hi George,
    I really appreciate your comments, and please keep them coming, it’s great to be able to communicate with other people in the trading business.
    My comment on the stress for three pips was intended to be light hearted reflection on my poor performance, NOT a grumble.
    My comments are only meant to reflect my activities with TUFXP; they are not intended to be the correct way to trade because clearly I’m still getting it wrong, and I’m grateful for any advice on how to make this business work.

    You are right about the wedge formation and the last 7 trading days are making higher lows, but the GBP/USB is still in the down trend from the 5th November 2010. There were also good short trades on Monday 3rd and Wednesday the 5th January 2011. These moves were signalled by the software.

    Staying out of the Market until the breakout is a wise decision, but I want to learn how to make this work on an intraday basis and there are strong moves both up and down intraday, irrespective of the overall daily or weekly trend.
    Stops are a difficult one; I’m not afraid to loose more than 20 pips, the problem is recovering the loss. It seems inevitable that the stop will be about 30 pips (mine was 35 this am) but with a profit target of 20 pips it will take at least three profits to recover two losses.
    So…….the losses are the problem?

  72. george says:


    I don’t want to hog this thread, but presumably those not interested in TUFXP won’t be here. I also don’t set myself up as any kind of expert, but if we can each see things a little differently maybe we can help each other. Perhaps Jack will move us on to another thread where we can do this.

    I didn’t think you were complaining and my reply was light hearted too.

    I am a bit of a belt, braces and a piece of string trader, so I’ll never be rich.

    Looking at it tonight, it is going down again, so maybe this is the breakout I want to see – we must wait. There are, though, two fibonacci support levels at 1.5465 and 1.5420, to keep in mind. It seems to have popped through the fist one for a while but is struggling to close below it.

    Regarding losses, of course mathematically you are right and the trick is to keep a high strike rate – I think you achieve this by rejecting dodgy trades and keeping to those with a better chance of success.

    I manage with a stop loss of 35 and a daily target of 10 – this is net of course, but to me small regular gains mount up, especially as the trading range falls. This is something else to think about – with a limited trading range, is 30 pips too big a target?

    Hope we can keep going on this, but maybe we’ll get fed up with it, or someone else will.

    Good trading.

  73. Roger Dee says:

    Hi George and all – thanks for the info about the RSI – I will keep an eye on that as well.
    Looks like thats it for trading GBP/USD today – 2 failed signals on TESS and with the US news this afternoon I won’t be getting anywhere near.
    Was tempted to get on the 0915 signal – again I beleive everything was lined up but it failed to get past the 0225 hrs high which turned into resistance. The only thing I suppose to say is that the Daily trend is short….. Having lost 40 points yesterday was hesitant anyway today!

    Roll on Monday!

    Will report on DIT shortly.

  74. Steve Patt says:

    Why not just trade what Price Action is telling you rather than doing what a computer program is telling you to do. I know which one I trust more.
    On a NFP day you’ll find the markets very unpredictable usually moving in a tight range untill the news get released at 1.30pm and then watch out.

  75. george says:

    Didn’t trade today, don’t like the sideways moves as I said previously, plus the NFP day as Steve says.

    What is all this about the daily being short? First John Wheatland, then Mike takes failed shorts. The trend is sideways to higher – there is massive resistance around 1.5465 as I have been saying all week. The twenty bar EMA has been showing an upward hook since year end.

    I’m beginning to think there is something wrong with me and my charts.

    You’re giving me me a complex, guys.

  76. Mike says:

    Hi George,

    I’ve not had much time to comment over last few days, I hope you are doing OK.

    Trend lines are very much open to individual interpretation; I was taking a line from the 4th Nov High, which was firmly broken yesterday.

    As you say, this may not be the right place for our comments, but we are discussing the performance of the TUFXP software. I did hope that more people would join in.

    I try to trade most days, and I had a go on Friday; the first short PTP at 7.05am produced a loss of 37 pips the second long PTP at 9.15 produced a profit of 34 pips after 4 hours. An overall loss on the week.

    Monday 10th Jan, traded a long PTP reversed with a short PTP revered with long PTP resulting in three losses totalling 71 pips so I switched the PC off for the day. Obviously the fourth trade short would have been a winner!

    Tuesday 11th Jan I traded the 7.10 short PTP for 32pips profit.

    Wednesday 12th I traded the 7.00 short PTP for a 20 pip loss. I was tempted to take 15 pips but held out for more; I regretted that! I didn’t trade the long PTP at 7.35 because of the upside resistance; another mistake, but a good example that support and resistance often mean nothing.

    Thursday 13th I had to go out early so no trades. Naturally the 7.05 long PTP signal was great success.

    It would be nice to hear fro Jah and Roger Dee?

  77. george says:

    Hi Mike

    Nice to hear from you.

    Sorry you still seem to be having probs.

    Don’t know if there are any other traders on here now. Would be nice to hear from Jah and Roger.

    It is difficult, especially when in a sideways period – best left alone, I reckon, but there have been some nice trades this week, after the upside breakout All I can say is try not to let a trade reverse from a profit to a loss. As you know I am content with 10 pips, but what I do, if I want to stay in, is to move my stop up to breakeven when 10 pips in profit, then to 10 when at 15 or so. I start with 35 pips in case of an immedite reversal. If a trade goes from say 15 pips profit and you come out at 10, you can always get back in again if conditions allow. No law says you have to only have one go at a trade, or necessarily let it run ot to a big loss.

    Keep at it. With your tenacity, you will succeed.

  78. JAH says:

    Hi George/Mike

    Still here, think I over traded this week in my efforts to make this work! Ended the week 40 pips up though,but decided I should stick to mornings. I’m still trying to decide on a stop, 35 seems too large,George do you let it run to 35,or get out if opposing signal appears?
    I should really take the profits like you say -I watched 10 profit turn into 30 loss which wasn’t good. Like you say better to keep taking the profit however small.
    Yesterday seemed very difficult at the time, although looking back the 50ma didnt change at all & was up all day,just!Should have stopped after that 1st trade @ 6.50, I think it was?
    Anyway we seem to have reached an important resistance level,will we go down from here …

  79. george says:

    Hi Jah

    Nice to know you are with us – what a small select band we seem to be!

    Nice work to end up 40 pips – that’s plenty o.k. for me, although if there is more there, then so much the better.

    Whether to let a loss run to 35? God, I wish I knew the answer to that – sometimes I do, sometimes I don’t – I just work on my reading of the charts at the time and like everyone else, mostly I’m wrong. As long as there is profit, it doesn’t matter long term. If I could find a way to always be right, I’d sell it as a system. Not a satisfactory answer, I know, but it is like I’ve said before, you need to get the hours in watching to get a feel for it. You seem to have it anyway. I read somewhere, that it takes 10,000 hours of practice to develop any skill (like playing piano etc) and I’m nowhere near that.

    Didn’t trade yesterday – stayed in bed unwell, just got up 5.30pm Saturday.

    May have a look at the charts tomorrow. Anyway, my opinion is not worth any more than you paid for it, although its good to share ideas and thanks for yours. I’ll keep it in mind when I look.



  80. george says:

    Hi Jah/Mike

    Now had a look at the charts and for what it is worth (zero really), this is my take on it.

    Friday was a very short range, so maybe we cannot draw too many conclusions.

    Firstly and most importantly we need to see what happens in the Asian session and take our cue from there. There is obviously resistance at 1.59 (whole number) plus the fibonacci area, just above.

    The 20 Bar seems to be still steeply up, although the 50 is still stubbornly down and that will take more time to change as it is still working on November moves. So, if it can clear say 1.5920, I can see it running up to 1.61 this week or next.

    If Neil does an overview today, it will be interesting to see what he thinks.

    Anyway, that’s it for now. I won’t be trading Monday or Tuesday, Doctor and hospital appointments, I’m afraid, but I’ll be very interested to see how it pans out.

    Remember what Neil says, ‘trade what you see, not what you think’ and certainly take no notice of what I think.

    Good luck this week.


  81. JAH says:

    Thanks for that George,also no news tomorrow, so could range again or take off in either direction! Nothing from Neil so far, I think he’s busy with fx-180.
    Definitely trade what you see!!
    We have also had 6 green daily candles in a row…

  82. george says:


    Looks lie it’s going to be seven now. Can’t see much more happening today, as it’s ML King day and it seems to be sticking at 1.5950. All set for 1.61 soon, I reckon. Cannot see any big resistance to the left, so depends on news, I suppose.

  83. george says:


    Didn’t trade today, but on checking the charts
    when I came in, I see there was a nice long signal with a 100 point profit at 7.20am.

    Why can’t people make this system work?

    Beats me.


  84. Mike says:

    Hi George and Jah,

    I’ve not had much time to comment over last few days, again!
    I have been neglecting my domestic duties, my wife thinks I’m wasting my time gazing at the PC all day, trouble is she’s right!

    I hope you two are doing OK.

    Two new contributors – OFC & HS it would be interesting to hear their story?

    Generally I’m still the same; making no progress.

    As for Monday 17th; yes an easy long trade – looking back.
    I usually start at 6.50am because the PTP’s used to be very reliable at that time – not so good lately.
    6.50 a short PTP. 7.30 a long PTP. 8.25 a short PTP. Fortunately I was cautious and didn’t trade because prices were bouncing off the Asian session low and overhead resistance, there was no news scheduled, so I felt that a sideways day was likely, so I missed the easy long signal, but I also missed three bad ones. No trades.

    Tuesday 18th was an easy one at 7.20am 20 pips profit.

    Wednesday 19th 7.20am long – lost 31 pips reversed and made 28 pips – down 3 pips

    Thursday 20th early start – 5.45 Long, closed out with 3 pips – reversed short 6.45 in a bit late could have taken 10 pips but held for 20 and regretted it – lost 24 pips. I reversed long when prices closed above the recent high at 8.15 and set limit at 24pips, at the DP limit hit – break even.Finished for the day.

  85. JAH says:

    Have you contacted JS for his method, he is very helpful

  86. OFC says:

    If you look here


    you will find 3 methods

    one by Graham Laurie

    one by John Wheatland

    and finally

    one by Jason Simon

  87. OFC says:

    sorry the last one seems to now be by John Simon.

    very confusing!

  88. John Wheatland says:

    One piece of advice for you: 85 EMA on all charts.

  89. John B says:

    Like many on this forum, I bought TUFXP 2 years ago and gave up after 3 months of mixed results, ending in a loss situation. A year ago I mustered up the confidence and gave it another go trading for 6 months, but once again ended up losing most of my trading account balance. Having recently found this forum, and recommendations to the cash master blog I am tempted to give it another try…could it be third time lucky, or am I being plain stupid?

  90. Mike says:

    Hi George, Jah, OFC,

    Yes Jah, I have been in touch with John Simon, he is extremely helpful and working very hard to make TUFXP work. Today (24-1-11) is the first day that I have tried to follow his methods on live charts and they look good.
    My methods weren’t very impressive; I lost 36 pips and made 32pips.

    John B,
    My Wife would say you are stupid to start trading.
    However you could open an account with Smart Live with as little as £50 to trade at £0.10p per pip to find out if you can make it work.

  91. george says:

    Hi Mike

    Pls. keep us informed.

    How did you manage to lose 36 pips yesterday? There was only one losing signal early on and that was only 14 pips followed by 2 winners. First one should not have been taken anyway, as the signal candle was too short.

    After that, there were two winners.

    How about today – huge profits to be had – virtually impossible to go wrong. Please tell me you got some of that?

  92. Mike says:

    Hi George,

    Sorry George, my mistake, I lost 12 pips on other ideas I’m working on.
    I took the first long PTP at 7.15 and lost 12 pips. I took the second PTP short at 7.50 this one just made 20 pips but I held out for more and was stopped out by the 9.05 spike for another 12 pip loss. I went back in short on the next bar and held out for 32 pips. On the PTP strategy I lost 24 pips and made 32 pips.
    I have been trying to increase the profit target in line with the stop, but it didn’t work out this time. The most consistent target is 20 pips.

    Unfortunately I had to leave home before 8am so couldn’t trade today. Sod’s law is still fully operational!

  93. Mike says:

    Hi George,

    I think you are commenting on Newsnight trader, if so are you using the system?
    Also Auto Focus FX, are you using the system?
    Are they any good?

  94. Mike says:

    Hi George,
    I have to go out again at 8am so I traded the 6.50am PTP and set a 20 pip limit to be on the safe side.

  95. george says:

    Hi Mike

    No, I’m not using Auto Focus or Newsnight. My comments are just general where I think I may be able to help someone who has little trading experience, to try to help them avoid the mistakes I have made over the years. I have given up rainbow chasing and just stick to modest gains with TUFXP.

    Once again, I urge you, pls. take the smaller gains or at least lock some in when you are ahead. The markets seem to mostly mini trend only 30 to 50 pips from top to bottom and vice versa so big wins are unrealistic for intra day trading with minmum risk. Try it your self. Use the pip measuring tool each time the market turns from peak to peak and you will see there are few big trends,

    This being the case, then by the time you get into a trade, it is probably half over, so please, move the stop loss up to B/E asap and be prepared to take smaller profits. You can stay in by trailing if you wish, but protect your initial stop loss asap.

  96. george says:

    Looking at the Cashmaster blog, it seems JS has not reported on trading TUFXP this year.

    Anyone know why?

  97. JAH says:

    Hi George
    He stopped as he wasnt getting much feedback.

  98. george says:

    Thanks, Jah.

    Shame – it’s good to compare.

    Is he the same JS as on here?

    Would be good if he made some posts here. How are you getting on with his method? There seem to have been several who have asked to be put in touch, but no-one seems to have given any feedback.

    Is there some kind of embargo on comments about it?

  99. JAH says:

    Hi George
    Yes its the same JS, I dont know of any embargo on his method!
    I’m trying it out,have backtested & looks very promising,Have also started live trading it now.

  100. george says:

    Thanks, Jah.

    Pls. keep us posted. Always interested to hear about these things.

  101. Dave says:

    I’m certain Nick Laight isn’t a scam artist, as a scamster you hide behind false names and become uncontactable. Nick really DOES believe in his products and has a great articulate sidekick in Clive Keeling. BUT – what his organisation does do is perpetrate the idea that anyone can look at simple signals and make easy money over the long term with a decent starting bank. I wasted a large amount of money on Guy Cohen’s Flag Trader and have tried Keith’s products on 3 occasions before returning them. I’ve also tried other FX trading services and systems, and I am not able to make a profit out of any of them. I’m reasonably intelligent, understand what I’m doing with these things, but I just CAN’T make a profit out of them. I believe that the only way I could make a profit from them is through one to one training, in which I’m not willing to invest the time and money.
    I began on this journey because I work from home and where my freelancing work is declining, wish to maintain my independence and find a way of maintaining my lifestyle. I’ve been journeying for 3 years, during which time I’ve come across many scoundrels, scam artists, criminals, shoddy systems and so-called services, but have found that there are some good guys out there. That is where forums like this one are very useful as they can save you time and money. Always remember though that no two buyer’s experiences are the same, so whilst I am sure that there are plenty of people managing to make TUFX and Flag Trader work for them, it isn’t me.

  102. PERCIVAL says:

    I can give a similar account to Dave’s – almost word for word – regarding Flag Trader and TUFXP. No matter how hard I tried to make them work they both lost money consistently and I gave up using them.

  103. george says:

    A few weeks ago, Jah and a few others were going to give John Simon’s method a go.

    Any results to report from anyone?

  104. Chuck says:


    I have just been reading your threads from the last couple of months and thought I would add a new voice. I’ve been using TUFXP/TUFXP for 2 years now, I totally endorse the system, but my own trading discipline (or sometimes lack of it) still keeps me from consistently taking home a weekly profit. I feel I have enough experience now to trade without the signals and do so regularly, if for whatever reason a signal does not appear when a good entry point does. I trade pretty much every day from 6/7am to 11am and then 1/2pm to 4pm. I follow Neil’s overviews and know full well that it is possible to take 1 or more 20pip trades a day 90% of the time. BUT, I have not had a 100pip week for months!
    Do any of you take a consistent 100 pips or more a week from TUFXP2, as this should be very doable, it seems from your comments that like me you are not?
    If not, why aren’t we, the platform works and with practice spotting the majority of bad signals can be done?!

    I know sitting in a room on your own looking at lines can drive you slightly mad and errors do creep in, but TUFXP is good enough to make 100pip weeks achievable even with the odd loss.
    I would love to hear from someone who is doing really well every month and maybe get a tip as to how they are using TUFXP so successfully?

    Thanks, Chuck

  105. george says:

    Hi Chuck.

    Don’t myself make 100 pips a week but do make 40 or 50, but then again I only trade between 6 and 8.30 a.m. with a daily target of 10 pips. Sometimes I lose my 35 pips stop loss and always kick myself for letting it go like that, which makes it uphill work to get back, but over time, it all works out.

    You seem to have it all sorted out, but I could not begin to guess where you ‘go wrong’ except maybe in the hours you trade? – far too many for me – perhaps overtrading? Or do you go wrong at all, really? If you are making profits, I’d say not. If you are losing, then yes, you are. Would suggest you keep some form of log to see if there is a pattern. Tried this myself, but cannot keep it up for long, but if you can, maybe it would help.

    Anyway, why obsess about 100 pips? It’s not a magic number, except that we are told, and can see, it’s achievable, but for me, it’s not. One pip a week would do if you had a big enough stake!

    So I suggest you aim a little lower and be content. I wonder what people on other systems actually make? Do they regularly make 100 pips? I doubt it, though they are quick enough to slag off TUFXP. I am not sure even Auto Focus does that and they seem to trade all day long. For my time slot, it was said recently, by John Wheatland that it loses, I think, on cable, which is what I trade. Perhaps John will let us know if that’s not the case.

    Sorry cannot give any magic tip, don’t think there is one and certainly no-one here seems to have found one.

    It’s a pity we don’t hear from Keith sometimes, I think. Neil’s overviews are all very well, but it would be nice to have a pep talk from the man himself. He could do the overviews when Neil can’t, but maybe he’s too busy with DTTP which is his original baby. Does make you fell like he doesn’t care much about TUFXP though.

  106. John Wheatland says:

    All this talk of pips is totally irrelevant. You should be concentrating on % not pips.

    100 pips a week from TUFXP consistently is impossible. You may get a good run but you will not achieve it long term.

  107. Chuck says:

    Thanks for comments. I will have a look at the dubaiblog and see what his theories are, Question for John, I know you don’t mean it literally, but how can talk of pips be irrelevant? Without having a price target or risk/reward strategy trading would be crazy and without a %age target which can only be broken down into a pip target, all you would be doing is getting into trades hoping to make more than you lose over a period of time.
    Even with a pip target, I still won’t make any trades in a day if I don’t like the set ups, so it’s not that it drives me or my trading, but financially I know what I want to achieve from forex and that has to be based on some sort of target.
    Surely without some sort of goal, of what you would like to make consistently is the point of trading, or have I got this very wrong?

  108. george says:


    From what I can see of it, Dubaiblog won’t get you very far with TUFXP. Seems to be just people who can’t make TUFXP work giving advice on how to work it and then giving up.

    If it works for you keep doing it. Is anything consistent in markets which are living, changing things? I doubt it.

    I agree, pips are the baseline, but the achieving of a certain number in any timeframe is not relevant. You can’t control the market. Sometimes loads of pips are on offer, sometimes none. On the other hand, with no yardstick to go by how can you measure success or failure?

    As John hasn’t diagreed with my earlier assumption that his whiz bang system loses money on cable in early trading, I’ll assume it’s true.

    This being the case, I’ll stick with TUFXP which will do for me.

    All the back testing of TUFXP seems a bit sterile – it seems to assume you take every trade as offered all day long and have no intelligent trading input, which is surely the wrong way to do it. Maybe I’m wrong. We’ll soon know. John will not be backward in telling me I don’t know what I am talking about, I’m sure.

  109. John says:

    Hi Chuck,

    I’m referring to pip totals. A system could make 200 pips a week using a 50 SL at 2% risk and make 8% a week.

    A system with 100 pip week and 25 SL at 2% risk would do the same.

    Ask 100 people straight off what system they’d take just mentioning pips and it’d be 200 pips a week, right?

  110. Chuck says:

    Hi John, OK I see that with the right maths you can achieve the same %age gain with a smaller amount of pips and that therefore shows that it isn’t all about getting more pips. I think Neil once had a compound chart on the TUFXP site which showed increasing your bet size respective to your bank, rather than increasing the amount of pips you try and win a week also makes the same point.
    What I was really trying find out was if anyone is making a consistent amount per week using TUFXP and if they had found a good strategy to enhance the software, as by the stuff I had read above it didn’t sound like anyone really was. As I still think that a good consistent pip amount / target per day/week/month has to be the base for being able to increase bet size or reduce risk, which ever way you want to increase your percentage.
    Do you really think that 100pip per week consistently is impossible? Obviously there are going to be the odd losing weeks, or bad weeks, but I would be interested to know why you think TUFXP can’t deliver that, or do you not blame the software but perhaps the user?!

  111. John says:

    It depends wholly on whether you follow the stop after a winner method. If you do, it requires 5/5 to do 100 a week or 20/20 for 400 pips a month. It’s just not sustainable at all.

    If you have a good method then just test it and test it and keep honest, accurate figures and see how you go.

  112. Chuck says:

    Thanks George, maybe you are right, perhaps it is the inconsistency of the market that is the X factor in all of this and that just sticking to rigid discipline to avoid beating yourself up over silly trades is really the key and any profit at the end of the week is the real target!
    I’m sure there is hours of over analysis in my brain, but it would be good to hear that someone somewhere is getting it right and really optimising the wins with TUFXP.

  113. Chuck says:

    John, funnily enough I only read the stop after one winner idea yesterday. I have never stopped after one winner, I just trade the hours I trade on any day and if there is a trade set up I like I take it. Sure I also have over excited moments and get it trades that aren’t there, but thats one of the few things I am trying to cut out!

  114. Carl says:

    Anybody got any comments regarding the latest promotion from Canonbury by Jason Alexander. It’s called Forex Hijacker. It appears he’s also had a couple of other systems for sale last year. Don’t know if they’re similar to the current one!

  115. MIB says:

    It’s the same system that he marketed last year under the name “Forex Volcanoe”.

  116. OFC says:

    Listen very carefully I will post this only once!


    read it and read all the links.


  117. george says:

    Hi John

    I knew you’d put me right!

    I said your system was whizbang, not because of anything you have said but because of all the favourable comments on the thread on here. You should be pleased. If I was looking for a new system, I’d go for it (assuming Agora get it going again), but I’m happy with what I do. Maybe that will change and your community is certainly a very attractive idea.

    Problem is, I am not a teacher and I could not rightly tell anyone exactly what is right to make TUFXP work – better brains than mine have failed. This is probably what is wrong with most systems, people expect mechanical operations which will produce a specified result and get disheartened when it doesn’t happen. I think trading is subjective, not objective. Not only are we trying to forecast which way the markets will go technically, we are also dealing with people, emotions and dare I say it shenanigans, and I don’t beleive just because forex is so huge it is not at times manipulated.

    Anyway, these are just my very amateur opinions.

    Good luck to everyone, whatever they are trying to do. Trying is the most important thing in life. Too many people are zombified and don’t try anything.

  118. Neil says:

    I`ve been trading with TUFXP for 18 mounths and feel I`m getting close (is this how everybody feels?). Istarted with £3000 and now have £2500( highest point being £4950).I would be gratful if someone could help me get in touch with Graham Laurie.I`ve seen his method and would like to ask a couple of Questions

  119. OFC says:

    Neil, why don’t you use the ‘ contact ‘ link facility on his website, it’s what it’s there for!

  120. stephen says:

    Having read the comments about TUFX I am compelled to add my experience. I bought it over 3 years ago mostly attracted by the simplicity of the sales letter, point and shoot, if you can tell the difference between red and green, easy as ordering pizza etc etc.

    I followed the course intently and lost every month, I spoke with Sam, anthony Michelle and another who is gone now, I constantly tweaked the settings as advised by the support staff.

    I went on a 1 – 1 with Michelle at an additional £400 again this seemed all very useful discussing past trades, I couldnt make any monthly profits from this new strategy.

    I phoned Michelle and was given another set of tweaks which didnt work, I was put onto Anthony as he was the man apparently, again after weeks and months of tweaking and losing I was still getting nowhere.

    I joined forums on other who used the system, didnt actually find anyone who made consistent profits, I emailed Keith about 10 times I never got a reply, I asked the support staff to explain why so many staff had so many variations of this point and shoot system, I was told it depends on your personal strategy, ” Just give me one that works” but it never came and Keith never did reply.

    The overviews are with hindsight easy I could look at a chart and sya DONT take that, I emailed Neil for help, his replies were very defensive and somewhat curt, I pointed out his personal settings had made an overall loss over a certain period of time, he disagreed!

    He told me hundreds of users were having continued success month on month and it must be me, having tried everything for over 2.5 years culminating in losses every month I asked neil to put me in touch with ONE user who was profiting regularly from TUFX to which he replied we are not an advispry service and this would be unfair to other users, how he comes to that conclusion is beyond me and just utter rubbish.

    If Nick wishes to comment on my experiences he is welcome as all the above is strictly factual, I wish I had applied for a refund instead of being persuaded to beleive it was me who was doing something wrong and went beyond the refund period.

    With the inclusion of candlesticks and parabolic indicators adding to MAs and stochastics, various settings, fibonachi and all the rest of the jargon whatever happened to the POINT AND SHOOT, EASY AS ORDERING PIZZA claims on the sales letters.

    In fact I pointed these claims out to EACH of the support staff, strangely NOT ONE of them had ven claimed to have seen the sales letter but ALL were keen to provide £400 1 -1 training sessions.

    With hindsight I found this odd as they all claimed to be making very large sums using this system but would give up trading without a care to earn £400

    Anthony, Sam the other guy were “let go” as not needed as I was told,yet the system was making them thousands of pounds, no one trades live even on 1 -1 to prevent their theory of being exposed as wishful thinking, hindsight is brilliant for overviews and indeed for everything, everytime I watch a snooker match I get a 147 break from my chair as Im sure most other readers will agree you cant go wrong when you know the outcome, if only the lotto was done the ame way as Neils overview then we wouldnt be dabbling with TUFX and losing.

    NICK I am happy to respond to any comments you have as all of mine are indeed factual, unbiased and genuine, I would also be pleased if you could pass my email address to at least 3 users of tufx who can prove successful trading methods which will be profitable when backtested over 6 months BY ME any results will be aired on this site in strict agreement with yourself. I am also happy to post and reply to any feedback I get.

  121. Olly says:

    Well said Stephen, I WAS in the same boat with TUFXP I haven’t used it for 6 months now, it makes me cringe….

    Simple trend lines and watch price action is what I use to good effect.

    The way it was marketed was very “clever” provide you with many tweaks as possible with the next tweak being better than the previous one and before you know it you are past your refund period and your stuck with a £2000 hole in your credit card!

  122. marco says:

    Itrade the TUFXP and i use Graham Laurie GG system that produced +7000 pips in a year using a max 30 SL.
    I follow the system exactly as laid down by Graham including the trailing stop .
    The trick is to let the winners run (which they do .Last week was +180 ,this week +15 ,but the winners took care of my loss .
    Go to Cashmasters earliest stratergy and follow it exactly and you will make monies . I trade only the london session and also use a MACD on the 15 min chart MT4 to give me the direction of the trend and i follow that.

  123. marco says:

    Just one more thing .Ihave read tons of complaints on this site ,but no one explains their stratergy or what intensity setting they are using .What rules are you following and are you sticking to them?
    The basic stratergy is GU, two signals at the same time on the 5/10 or 15 min chart with a max 15 pip apart .Intensity 10 and the trailing stop over 4 bars ,As soon as your trade hits +20 bring stop to break even and let it run.You will get stopped out a few times but you will also hit some very big runs ,and thats what you want

  124. george says:

    O.K.,Marco, for what it is worth (not much really), here’s mine.

    I start at 6 am and finish as 8.30 a.m.

    Standard settings intensity 8 etc.

    4 charts on the screen – 2min/5/15/daily

    2 min and daily – ema and sma only. 2 min for price action reference only and daily for trend and fibs. I only trade when the Asian session has done at least 50 pips – less than that and I think there is insufficient movement in the market and may go back to bed.

    5min chart to trade off – ema and sma, parabolics, pivots. At the bottom, RSI and stochastics.

    15 min – ATR channel and pivots only with RSI and stochastics at bottom. No ema/sma.

    When signalled, I check 15 min chart and only take trade if there is a close either above or below centre line, depending on direction. Of course the other signals on 5 min must be there as well, i.e. ema/sma, parabolics and candles all in same colour and 20 ema to be splitting away sharply from 50 sma. RSI and stochastics to be either two o’clock or 4 o’clock or steeper as on an imaginary clock face.

    After that it is judgement – i.e. are candles good length, is there force in the price action or is it fiddling about? What is relationship to whole numbers, pivots etc? Where are the support and resitance areas?

    As I said I am not a teacher and don’t expect a lot of it to make much sense, unless you have been trading for a while. Even then, I know many traders are going to tell me it’s rubbish. My style is subjective, certainly not just a point and shoot system as advertised, and if all this seems unneccesarily complicated, well, it is all in my mind and decisions are made almost instantly, through practice and watching the price action build. I don’t always wait for signals. If I am in doubt, I don’t trade. If I don’t feel well or am tired, I don’t get up. As I have said in earlier posts, I probably refuse more trades than I take, but I prefer to be as safe as possible. Patience is the key. I only trade when it looks and feels good.

    If it makes any sense to you, good luck. If not, leave it alone and try one of the more mechanical approaches like marco says.

  125. marco says:

    Iam a huge fan and total believer that trading the price action is the only game in town .My price action system uses no indicators and i only trade the double zeros .
    But when trading the TUFXP i simply follow a system that has proven itself again and again and again.It is totally mechanical except for not taking trades against the trend and following the MACD .

  126. george says:

    Marco, looking at you post regarding complaints about the system not working set me thinking about why, yet again.

    For me, I think the answer lies in how long it takes to get to know the system – most people don’t seem able to give it long enough to get to grips with it – it took me a couple of years – and thereby, I think hangs the tale. If this system was re-written for MT4 so that users would not have to pay 15 quid a week for the data feed, I think it might be more successful as a strategy. At the moment, people have to try to be profitable right from the word go to pay for this and despite the sales blurb, I just don’t think, unless you know how to trade, (in which case maybe you don’t need the system anyway) that is possible. Even a three month trial would be too much to keep paying the feed for, for a lot of people and may still be too short a time anyway.

    I know Keith wouldn’t get his affiliate fees for the data feed, but I do think his system would become more successful in the long run and therefore more popular and generate more sales. How many people have been put off buying, by comments on boards such as this? It needs a lot of practice with small money or demo trading which most people cannot do whilst paying out this kind of money – after all they are trying to make it, not spend it.

    I suppose, as businessmen, Keith and Nick must have thought about this, so presumably from their point of view they are profitable enough with things as they are, even though they have to take a high level of slagging off.

    What do you reckon?

  127. marco says:

    When i first brought the TUFXP cloud computing
    had not really come into existence and therefore data feeds (like dial ups )were part and parcel.Lots of other companies were also charging data feeds ,that is now fast becoming a thing of the past and its about borrowing the software as oppose to owning it.I guess if TUFXP came out now you would just pay when you needed it ect.
    What has always been misleading with TUFXP is the size of the bank needed in trading .In my humble opinion ,one needs at least 5k and should only be trading 1% max ,and that is after at least three months forward testing.
    But people are in a rush to make monies and they trade 5% of bank, and when the system hits a bad run ,they blow the account.
    The number one rule for me as a trader is to take responsibilty ,if you dont you will not make it.If you buy a trading system and it doesnt work the fault lies with you .If someone plays upon your greed ,it was your greed that was exploited ,no point crying about it later.
    As for people like ,Nick Laight and Keith Cotrell there time is coming to an end as people will no longer buy their products .
    The system vendors of today are now having to run live trading rooms and be very hands on with their clients ,so the cheats and liars will get found out a lot faster.
    if Nick and Keith want survive and salvage their reputations they need to be a lot more accessable to their clients ,run live trading rooms ect.Those that sit in ivory towers crumble.
    Even though i trade the TUFXP on the GG system i would advise all those thinking of buying it not to do so.What i reccomend is learn to trade by the price action, it is really easy and will cost you nothing.Once price action clicks ,its pure eureka as you need no indicators ,just the numbers.

  128. John Wheatland says:

    @Marco: Free datafeeds have been around for 10 years at least, namely Metaquotes etc.

    TUFXP has zero reason to be tied into their IQFeed, there have always been other free options even when it first came out.

  129. Dave W. says:

    Jack Whiteman

    I am new to this site having just joined and read the reviews on TUFXP with interest – have been trading for 2+ years solid and have yet to make a profit to fill the almost depleted broker’s account – One of many it would seem.

    Would be grateful if you could pass my email address on to JS – would appreciate receiving his methods as am will to try anything that would get me onto the road with FX.

    By the way, as for TUFXP back-up….. from my point of view, non-existant!!! I have been trying to open up communications with Neil since January this year. Can’t tell you how many emails I have sent him, and heard nothing in return. Wish their service was a fraction as good as their sales sheet.

  130. john U says:

    For John W
    Although i used TUFX unsucessfully a couple of years ago i have a friend who has had a good deal of success on short time frames, BUT he was already a well established and successful Trader. Can i just clarify about data feed please, as I am considering re-commencing with it, but under guidance from my friend, are you saying that its possible to avoid the Data Feed costs – which i believe are £40 to £50 per month? If so could you please elaborate further? Thank you

  131. Pete says:

    Well, what an amazing review this is! You get to the end and you don’t know whether to seriously bite your TUFXP lip and take it all on the chin, or in my case, stick your neck out…

    Firstly, to John W, you can’t just say “TUFXP has zero reason to be tied into their IQFeed, there have always been other free options even when it first came out” then totally freeze up. …We need a link to a free feed that TUFXP can use so we don’t have to keep paying IQ Feed don’t we? Have you got it for us? …or you just blowing dixie?

    And secondly, to Jack Whiteman, could you pass my email address on to JS as well please as yes, I’m afraid I’m another casualty. Thanks.

    Now for the record, I bought TUFXP back in Dec 08 and I’m embarrassed to admit that even after over 4,500 hours of using it I’m still not in profit with this quick and easy point and shoot system. If you’re keeping track here then that’s a £2.25k cost plus £1.8k to IQ Feed and over £1.5k in losses, totalling £5.5k down the proverbial so far which I’m sure some of you will be familiar with.

    And I say embarrassed because I consider myself to be a pretty intelligent guy, but Stephen’s experiences above totally nailed it for me as they all mirror mine quite unnervingly so I thought I’d speak up.

    In fact, what Nick doesn’t realise here is that MY experiences with his support staff were almost pushing me to have a 1 to 1 with them (especially Anthony) at additional cost rather than just teach me a consistent method that works in the first place, which got kind of annoying.

    Also, having to call back for ‘more tweaks’ to what they told you in the first place just frustrated the crap outta me too. Why didn’t they give me the tweaks in the first place?

    But don’t get me wrong. I’ve nothing against Nick, or Keith, as I’ve worked successfully with Nick since 2006 on another project, but yes I 100% agree that his support system for the TUFXP product totally sucks, big time.

    The realisation that Nick and Keith are happy to take all the flak over this product, rather than just bleedin well teach us all properly in the first place, also just makes me shiver in horror.

    What we’ve needed for a long time is for someone to do live trades each day, or every few days, letting us watch over their shoulder on their decisions, successes and failures, but with proof that their bank is actually growing as promised, but not one has yet got the balls to do it for us.

    Teaching how to trade needs to be hands on. Historic MO’s are just a complete waste of energy as the teaching value of being in a live trade is non existant. Yes, Neil’s teachings and ramblings are brilliant, but applying it historically is utterly pointless.

    However, what infuriates me to the core is the thought of a highly probable 90-95% of the whole 5,000 odd buyers who also got suckered into this great sales pitch, but yet still haven’t successfully made a profit like you and I some two years later.

    If you’re reading this review for the first time and haven’t bought the product then I’d second someone’s elses sentiment on here not to buy it. Yes you’ll learn a ton about forex, fibs, pivots, stochastics, RSI’s, MACD’s, MA’s, and test all sorts of variations after you discover the teaching on offer doesn’t cut it, but just don’t expect to make any money.

    I firmly believe now after umpteen emails and private testings of my own that we are just left to figure this out for ourselves. I’m no longer hopeful that Nick, or Keith, or any of his support staff are going to teach the 90% of his list that are still failing, and yes, in time this will reflect extremely badly on Nick’s business.

    Apologies for the ramble, but it’s been a relief to learn that it’s not just me who’s still trying to make money with this point and shoot system.

    I can only hope that these forums, and whatever we get from JS will finally make TUFXP work consistently for us all.

  132. george says:

    Hi Pete

    Several people have asked to be put in touch with JS but it seems no-one responds with their experiences. Will you undertake to do that please?

    I agree that live trades would be a good thing and Neil did promise to do this a long time ago, but seems to have forgotten about it, along with trading longer time frames, which he also said he’d look at. In fact his MO’s also seem somewhat hit and miss as to when they appear and this did p*** me off.

    Thirdly, it is not fair to have a pop at John Wheatland over this as it is not his system so why should he? There would probably be all sorts of legal problems if he did, even if he knew how to do it, which I doubt he does – it is a code writing matter which Keith needs to ask his IT guru to do, but that of course would mean giving up his monthly associate fees from IQ, so that is not going to happen.

    If you really want to try it, without IQ feeds, you can use the basics with MT4 yourself – you have all the parameters within the TUFXP software and most of the indicators are freely available so you could use its basic principles. But of course, you would not have all the bells and whistles which make it easy to use, but with some thought and a calculator and a pencil and paper it can be done. Even the pivot point calcs are available of the net.

    I had MT4 alongside my IQ charts for quite a while to watch what happens and you can do it. In fact I have now given up my IQ subs and trade this way. And no, I am not going to say how to do it – I am not going to get into copyright troubles etc., though I did give my way of trading TUFXP a few posts back. Have a look yourself, if you want to. Worth a go on a demo account and you can learn a lot.

    Good luck – you can make it work, one way or another.

  133. Pete says:

    Hi George,

    I received JS’s PTP system yesterday and from what I’ve seen, and briefly backtested, it has great merit. Having been in email contact with him these past 24 hours it seems that out of the 10 or so that have received it so far only 2 have the correct thought processes to make it work for them, and I’d be the third, so don’t expect many to respond with their experiences just yet.

    Why so few? Well, as you know, trading is very individual, and what works for one doesn’t always work for another. For example, I’ve been using your system for quite some time but just can’t make it consistent enough like you can. What JS has brought to the table though could just hopefully prove to be a turning point for me. I’d recommend any readers to check it out for themselves.

    Yes, I’m happy to bring my JS experiences to here if you wish, but only if Jack permits it, as this would be going off track off this TUFXP review/thread. It may be better just to give my experiences back to JS, or put them on a blog, or even email them between us 3 users. Also, there’s a part of JS’s system that doesn’t make sense for me to incorporate so I wouldn’t fully be reporting my JS experiences anyway.

    With regards to John WI of course wasn’t having a pop at him. I was inviting him not to freeze up but come tell us more like the previous poster to me was. I’m now thinking that he was just referring to using the free MT4 and perhaps either, doesn’t use TUFXP anymore, or hasn’t found a way to incorporate a free feed into it.

    I highly doubt there’ll be any legal or copyright issues if any of us could use a free feed to run our TUFXP licenses though (without reading the small print upon loading it up), but the practicalities of making it happen without Keith’s IT team involvement seem slim to none, so we’re all probably stuck with IQF.

    It’s all part of getting a repeat income from us, as well as a % from our IG trades of course, so you’re right, Keith’s not going to give any of that up at all. I’d still like John Wheatland to come back and elaborate more on what he meant though if he could.

    However you should note that JS’s system also has an indicator in it that would only be able to be made possible within the TUFXP software itself, and not a free MT4 charting package, so saving costs on any free feed gives me more reason to ask John if it’s possible. Freezing up isn’t helping any of us move forward is it, but in the meantime we’re stuck with paying for our feeds to use Keith’s TUFXP until John pipes up.

    For me, the TUFXP software is just fantastic and has always been better than any MT4 I’ve tried. If I could only join the ranks of the likely 5-10% that are making it pay then I’d be more than ecstatic. Having a free feed to it would just be gravy.

    I am confident though that the more we share then the more of us will find our own ways, as lots of us must be ridiculously close to being successful …as TUFXP rocks, period, in my view, and so does Neil’s ‘education programme’. It’s just their teaching that sucks big time which means 90-95% of purchasers will fail, which in my book is totally unforgivable.

    Anyway George, stay positive. We’ll get there.

    Are there any other TUFXP users that have shared their systems anywhere on the net? Or have most of the early users given up now?

    Neil’s idea of having a TUFXP Millionaire’s party is great, but it’s not going to happen until the teaching dramatically improves.

  134. george says:

    Hi Pete

    Thanks for the reply. Glad to hear you are prepared to give a view on the JS method when you’ve tried it for a while. Shouldn’t think Jack will make a problem, after all it is still about TUFXP and anyway, this thread seems to be dying out, probably like the active users.

    Even with the JS method, from what you say, 2 out of 10 successful users does not seem to be a great advert. There again, I do believe that most people will never be able to trade forex with any system – it does, as you say, require a certain mindset. Probably that’s where John Wheatland scores – he seems to babysit his fans.

    As far as copyright issues are concerned, there are none for individual users to make any alterations they like – no doubt most successful users do that, because it certainly does not seem work straight out of the box. Where I think there could be problems is in publishing a system (even on here) based on TUFXP which has copyright, and which could be to the detriment of the originator, i.e. getting people to leave IQ. That’s why I don’t think JW will give you a reply and anyway as I said it is none of his business. He just opined, correctly that Keith did not need to tie this in to a subscription feed, but saw it as a way to make more money. Keith actually says so in his adverts. John wants to sell his own system, not make Keith Cotterill’s one work.

    Anyway, that’s the way I see it, but I am a belt, braces and piece of string kind of guy, so maybe worry unnecessarily, but I’m not getting into the publishing business – my blood pressure would not stand it.

    Once again, good luck – it certainly is there for the taking.

  135. hubo says:

    Lost thousands of pounds, in two and a half years.

    Jack.Can you set up an interview with K.C.As he will not reply to me. I just get drippy Neil.

  136. john U says:

    Whilst understanding everyones frustration regarding products of all kinds I don’t agree with hubo’s assessment of Keith Cotterill and its so strong i am rather surprised it’s left on here!

    Whilst i have Traded, pretty unsuccessfully to be honest, over the past 3 years i have a friend who , with 6 years Trading experiences combines his own approaches with the excellent TUFXP software and for the past 6 months he has been very successful with it. So SOME PEOPLE have gained from, and like the product as my friend does!

    My own take is that TUFXP is like an Aircraft Cockpit and with so many variables it is not surprising so many people ‘crash’.

    That said i feel it is a masssively expensive Product, that the majority of people have not made money, and that the Training was far too basic and there has been much criticism of the ‘support’ or lack of it.

    BUT, i don’t think the wordused above are fair, balanced or appropriate!

  137. george says:

    I agree.

    The system is massively expensive and can be difficult to make work, but people do. On the other hand the software is immaculate and has obviously taken a lot of time effort and expensive code writing to achieve. This should not be seen just as a manual and a few discs – it is education and a good foundation for understanding forex. I’ve seen many courses on sale that cost $5000 or more and offer less. You need to put in the screen time and treat it as a PART of your learning. Just waiting for signals will not do it, although the sales blurb does give the impression that this is all you do. Microsoft Windows is similar – a book and a disc worth maybe a fiver, but sold for hundreds of pounds. It is not the intrinsic worth that counts, but the use you can make of it.

    I am now trading using the TUFXP principles, (but without the software, of course), on MT4 and it works fine. No more data feeds costs. I would not have been able to do that from scratch, even with Babypips and would have given up long ago.

    Neil still does the market overviews and you can see from that, the opportunities there are in trading, even though of course it is necessarily retrospective. If you cannot see those opportunities in the charts, then you have not learned well enough. Put in the time and effort and you can do it.

  138. PERCIVAL says:

    If the cost of the TUFXP + 1 year’s feed costs about £3000 and you succeed in making an annual return of 10% it will take you 2 years to break even on a starting pot of £15000. Using 2% of the pot per trade means risking £300 each time -say £10 per pip on a 30 pip stop loss.
    Based on my experience (along with many others it seems) the chances of TUFXP ever paying for itself, let alone making profits are very slim.

  139. george says:

    Hi, Percival.

    Not worth doing then?

    10% per annum?

    I reckon that’s 3 pips per week. You are suffering aren’t you?

    Better put your 15 grand in the new NS&I savings bond where you will get about 5 percent p.a. at the moment with no risk and no effort.

  140. PERCIVAL says:

    Thanks George – I agree

  141. Pete says:

    Hi George,

    Just to update you on my last 4 weeks using Tess with JS’s system let’s just say that I’m more hopeful.

    JS’s system itself only gets 30-50 pips per week in the mornings, according to him, but this isn’t enough for me to be happy with as 100 per week minimum has always been my target.

    However he uses a variation on an indicator that, when questioned, is a reverse of how you would look at it and is based around something from FX-180. In giving this a good testing over 4 weeks morning and afternoon I can confirm that it has merit but it’s lacking in certain areas.

    The upshot is, without going into detail, I’ve used a whole host of info I’ve been testing these past two years almost daily and I feel confident on a few breakthroughs with some additional indicators I’ve been using and also on a rather unusual chart.

    Gimme another month George and I’ll upload my IG results somewhere, as at the moment what I’ve changed JS’s system to is breaking even.

    And yes, I agree, TESS is the bees knees. We just gotta all find a way of making it work for us. You’ll be able to use what I’ve come up with without TESS though no sweat. It’s just easier for marking up trades, measuring, putting on fibbs and a whole host of other stuff.

    Keep smiling! Catch you again in another month.

  142. george says:

    Hi Pete,

    Thanks for that – very grateful. At last some proper info. Look forward to your posts later on.

    As far as 100 pips per week goes, I have never been able to achieve that, although it is the default on TESS. I have found that just trying for 10 pips per day is achievable, as you say and when using 2 percent bank and compounding it will give great results long term.

    For myself, I am plodding along o.k. without TESS, although for the first couple of weeks I did miss it terribly and made a few big mistakes. Whatever anyone says about it, mechanically TESS is superb software, so easy to use. If you go on to MT4 like I have done, for all its worldwide use, it is much more difficult to use, and you do need a calculator and pencil to make the calculations but as with all things, with practice it gets easier, so maybe if you do work out something on TESS, you may be able to transfer the knowledge to save the data feed costs, if that’s what you want to do, but if you do, I’d advise running both for a while.

    I need to get some kind of little calculator like Neil produced for ATM to ease things a little, but that’s further down the line. Maybe, at my age, I should just keep doing the calculations to keep my brain active and ward off old age problems!

    Thanks again, Pete.

    Look forward to hearing from you in due course.


  143. john U says:

    Following George, Pete and Percival’s comments.
    Also no wish to repeat too much of my comments above 2 nd June.
    Just by way of encouragement i wanted to demonstrate you are ‘never too old to learn’. Finally i have managed to conquor the urge to Trade when not all the criteria were actually in place. As the Market (Cable) has been so virtually flat calm for best part of 3 weeks there have been well over 60 potential Trades but all bar 6 were ones to ‘sit on my hands’.
    Following the excellent method i referred to above that a friend uses i managed a profit on 5 occasions out of 6 ONLY BECAUSE I WAS VERY DISCIPLINED!! OK, i only made 55 pips which to some is ‘Chicken Feed’ but when the Market gets Choppier i am now happy i know how to keep out of the ‘iffy Trades’ and ONLY trade when all criteria is met and the Risk is ‘Manageable’.
    Bearing in mind i have Traded for 2/3 rds of the last 3 years and have ‘spent’ 2 Betting Banks previously, i am pleased, but of course never complacent!
    My friend has, until lst few weeks averaged around 100 pips profit per week, using a mixture of his own method coupled with TESS !
    I want to aspire to the same level but, having been Working for over 40 years and now trying to make profits from both Trading and the GGs (see other threads) AT LAST I FINALLY THINK I MAY HAVE CRACKED THE ART OF PATIENCE!!
    As an encouragement to ‘newbies’ out there i thought i knew best, i thought you could short circuit it all and just jump in, but you can’t do that. Said it before, and will do again 1.PAPER TRADE FIRST, AND IF NECESSARY KEEP DOING IT TILL YOU ARE CONFIDENT OF PROFITS.

    Hope it helps. There are very few successful Traders out there. When i said there were only 5 to 10% John Wheatland said it was an ‘urban myth’ and reckons its more like 30%. What do YOU think?? What i do know is that whatever the truth is it’s therefore definitely ODDS – ON between 1/20 to 3/10 at best that Newbies WILL FAIL. PLEASE DON’T BE ONE OF THEM!
    All the best to everyone! John

  144. george says:

    Hi, JohnU

    Thanks for your input. Sound advice. I noticed some of your pieces on the ‘Donkeys’ threads, but don’t read them as gambling leaves me cold. I used to belong to various tipsters services, but having always blown up my accounts, I don’t do it any more. I am retired and have the time to be patient with Forex and I agree patience is the key and as I have said several times on this thread, I refuse more trades than I take. Belt, braces and a piece of string, that’s my style.

    Some people say trading is all about big pips, not money but I don’t agree. I think it is about consistency. If you can regularly and reliably pull in a certain amount of pips, then the money obviously follows. For example, if you had sufficient capital to allow a 2 percent risk and trade say £100 per pip and could guarantee to just get 5 pips per week you would get, obviously £500 profit. Try doing that with a smaller account at £1 a pip and you need 500 pips to do the same – a different (impossible) ball game altogether. This, I think is where it goes wrong for amateurs – they try to force more pips out of the market than are there, in an effort to get rich quick. Can’t be done. Be happy with a profit, whatever it may be. Some day it will be bigger. Just like sportsmen, we can’t all be big winners, but we CAN all be big losers. This is why I say small number of pips, regularly obtained and compounded over a long period must be the way. I understand pro traders working for the big banks are happy with small number of pips but trade millions of pounds at a time, so their profits are enormous. Obviously they are supremely confident of their ability, have the equipment and knowledge. Some traders even have computers with that trade in and out faster than humans can, hundreds of times per second, grabbing fractions of a pip at a time. They don’t go for the 100 pip runs. What chance do we have with a pc and internet connection? We have to take a different route – the slow one.

    Whether 5 percent or 10 percent are successful, I don’t know – only the broker/spread companies know that, but I seriously doubt it is anywhere near 30 percent. I doubt JW knows either. By their constant special offers, I conclude they need to keep getting new punters to replace their failures. If 30 percent keep trading profitably, they would grow their businesses easily. As it is IG for instance are losing millions at the moment according to their last set of accounts.

    Anyway, keep posting your experiences and we look forward to Pete’s record as well. Looks like this thread is down to just 3 of us now.

    Good luck.


  145. ross51 says:

    Hubo agree with you totally.I used to have respect for Keith Cotterill but not anymore.I bought this stupidly when it was first issued back in 2008.I managed luckily to sell it on with their agreement as i realised it was next to useless, coupled with high monthly data feed costs.please people do you yourselves a favour and don’t waste your money.Learn to trade properly using the free resources out there (babypips etc) don’t rely on a black box lagging indicator expensive software.

  146. JohnU says:

    ross51 and others

    Re Babypips – yes excellent Free Site.

    Would also add and implore anyone to look at ‘Price Action Trading Equation (PATe) also FREE and from Julie Hatch who has been successful for 10 years. You will see the Quality from the MMR Review and also the recent dialogue between myself and a few others. I am still in the ‘starting blocks’ but am coming to the conclusion that it is almost certainly the best potential money maker i have seen in the last 30 YEARS!. But i realise it will take patience, discipline, hard work and desire.

    Please do invest a couple of hours looking both at the MMR Review and comments and especially Julie Site. She offers truly marvellous FREE advice – i have emailed her 3 or 4 times and she sends absolutely superb, detailed, honest and practical replies! I spent over 3 years from 2008 – 2011 wasting time losing (including 2 Banks) with 5 or 6 different ‘Black Box’ approaches that drove me up the wall.

    Julie explains that YOU DON’T NEED A TON OF INDICATORS AND A ‘WIRING DIAGRAM’ SET OF CHARTS TO BE SUCCESSFUL. You just need to learn this price action approach. Hope this helps and all the best !

  147. niggy says:

    I started rereading this thread because of a mention elsewhere and found a post early on ( july 2010 ) from hubo recommending it. My experience was exactly the same in that I tried and gave up but Hubo seemed to be doing well but now I see that has changed. Without reading masses I wonder what has gone wrong hubo. There follows a quote from that earlier post.

    I bought tufxp about 2 years ago and was about to give up.But when they revamped it to tufxp2
    it improved.Now I follow Graham Laurie cash master blog’s method and allways do well. when
    I move away from his method I loose.

    Go and see for yourselves the daily results are there for all to see at cash master blog

    Most days I am finished by 8.30 leaving the rest of the day free

  148. RCKSON298 says:

    thanks for the infor Niggy will give it a go

  149. niggy says:

    The second part of the above was a quote from hubo from 2010 so please don’t think I am advising you to do anything RCKSON; I think you have misunderstood what I was saying.

  150. hubo says:


    Did you check out Graham Laurie’s daily results? They

    were good. Mind you I would not buy anything from him

    But that’s a whole new thread.Ha ha!!!

  151. niggy says:

    Cheers Hubo for your response. Gave up with it long ago and put the cash down to experience. Still lookng and PATe seems the way to go but I suspect the author, Julie, will make changes after all the numpties who can’t be bothered to read her website have pushed her too far.
    As a recommendation thought I will happily promote My Sports Trading Journey’s, Homer strategies. I know NOTHING about football but Andy who runs it is helpful, friendly, supportive, inexpensive and profitable. I can’t recommend it highly enough. It won’t make you rich but it is fun, friendly and well worth a look especially if you enjoy football and wish to make a few quid. Tell Andy I sent you.
    Google ‘Homer football strategy’ and good luck

  152. hubo says:

    Hi niggy,

    I will have a look at Homer.I have been looking at PATe

    There is a lot to understand and the manual/website is

    a bit confusing. But there are some good people on the

    forum so fingers crossed



  153. paulmarriott says:

    Mention has been made in previous posts of the advantage of support in a live trading environment, as offered elsewhere, but that Keith & Co have shied away from that approach… because TUFXP is an unregulated product and live trading support would risk falling foul of FSA regulations, as I understand it.

    That said, there’s nothing to stop TUFXP users from getting together and supporting one another in a live trading environment. So 6 weeks ago, following the launch of the new TUFXP website and forum, I set up a Skype Group called the TUFXP TRADING ROOM.

    It’s a Skype text chat room left open 24/7 in which a bunch of us ‘Tuffies’… 19 to date… pitch in with advice and encouragement, and more than a little banter, as we stay glued to our TESS and tear-off trading tickets. There are all levels of trading experience amongst us, from newbie to ninja.

    If you’d like to join in, just pop a request to my email address, below, including your full name and Skype name.

    By the way, I’ve been a TUFXP owner, if not constant user, for 4 years, and I’ve known Neil Spare as a friend and former business associate for around 25 years. That said, I must emphasise that the TUFXP Trading Room is totally independent of the official support team.

    Perhaps be welcoming you to the ‘Tuffies’ team, then.



  154. hubo says:

    Is anyone making money. Keith sent through a video of
    a hindsight week in trading. It was the same old crap
    with lots of green and red dots and that person saying

    ” I did not take this trade even though the dots told me to ” blah blah blah….Why bother paying for the system
    that cost many thousands to buy, and you have to pay a monthly subscription to Tess to get a load of dots that mean zilch. How much is it a month now? How much is Mr Slime getting?

  155. TripleTop says:

    Oh deary me… UFXP back again like a bad dream!

    Oxymoron alert its “Ultimate” right? … meaning final, as good as it can get … then lookout! Here’s version 2.0 !!!!

    I played with this in 2008 when I was much greener & returned quickly for a refund.

    As others have alluded, there’s always excuses for not taking the signals produced… which means IT CANNOT BE MECHANICALLY FOLLOWED !

    Which means… some human skill …. which means you need to be able to work out entries & exits yourself… and if you can do that… why bother having software???

    I remember KC giving lessons on chart patterns, lessons on spotting trends and such like. Again, why would you need training in chart interpretation if you are going to rely on software? Why have software if you are going to rely on chart patterns ?

    Mutually exclusive.

    Just another FX robot to join all the other FX robots on the virtual scrapheap of posterity.

  156. JohnU says:

    I have just read in Nick Laights recent email Promoting his Mentoring that Keith Cotterill’s products have Grossed £12 Million and netted down to about £4 Million.

    I would be curious to know how many buyers of his various Products have managed to achieve a similar level of success from using any product in absolutely the way it was designed and intended.

    So there you have it folks, if you have the time, disposition and sufficient money (not sure how much the mentoring costs) then Information Publishing is clearly a far more lucrative pathway than Financial Trading. Given that Jason Alexander has grossed over £500,000 apparently it seems that the old adage that ‘The Money is in the List’ is right on the button!

  157. TripleTop says:

    Fascinating to see those figures @JohnU and can only agree the sellers of a system will generally make far more than any user of the system.

    Teaching financial speculation to people is a perennial honeypot. The punters think they are being taught how to speculate profitably, but thats an entirely different beast. All the evidence indicates that isnt what results from most training.

  158. coolerking says:

    Must admit I am a bit upset I paid over two grand
    a couple of years back.Also paid another £300.00
    personal tuition to same firm ,lost continually.
    Then the same recycled system is brught out for
    a couple of hundred quid.Wonder if its to late to
    get a refund on sale by false pretences.If any one
    out there wants a bargain ,you can have my £2300
    quids worth for £200.00.Well it s worth a try.

  159. Raymond Sharp says:

    Hi coolerking,
    Judging by the length of this thread, it’s content, confusion and disappointment of so many of you about Kieth’s TUFXP, I doubt you could give it away. Good luck anyway.

    There ought to be a law against false selling in this industry as it happens all too often. Leaves a bad taste, thank goodness for sites like this. On to the next best thing, which hasn’t been created yet. If anyone knows different,m please do tell.

  160. AKK says:

    Hi is there any Forex system that works?? Loads on this site but nobody is recommending any of them.

    Can the MMR people or anyone on this thread or site recommend one that works.

    They all just disappoint. There has to be one in this world that works.


  161. zagger says:

    Check out Price Action Trading equation.
    I suggest you start reading the thread from the beginning of June.
    I started studying the method about then,and I do mean studying!!
    You will need to put in some serious time working on this method to really understand it.
    But, the effort will be worth it, because this does WORK!!!
    I now make on average £150 to £200 a day using PATe.
    (I only trade on 3 days of the week, the other 2 days I work in the Construction Industry)
    Check it out, you’ll see there are a few others on the thread who have been using it, successfully, for a lot longer.

  162. JohnU says:


    I agree with zagger’s response.

    I also note some excellent comments on 1on1 Forex on here, including what seem helpful comments from the Vendor. Not tried this one myself though!

    From my experience it is not only a challenge finding something that inherently Works, but ‘Handling the Psychological aspects’ of Trading. That is why you can get such diverse results from people who apparently are Trading the exact same ‘Method’.

    If you read, and i mean REALLY READ all that Julie Hatch (PAT equation) Larry Palmer (1on1 Forex) and such as Babypips there is so much emphasis on Psychology. You will see just how long these people tried before they were successful. In most cases it takes several years (not months!) to conquer yourself and succeed and most folk blow 2 or 3 or more Betting Banks!

    Depending on your interests you may be better looking at non- forex ‘money making’ products. None of them are easy, but in my view forex is far and away the most challenging! All the best!

  163. AKK says:

    Thank you zagger and John U. i thought it wouldn’t be as easy as all the crazy Forex sales-copy that is out there makes it out to be.

    I do think some publishers deliberately get ppls hopes up with these so called systems that u can make £1000 per week reading a manual or pushing a button. very irresponsible of them.

    i know i will be disappointed but i am going to have alook at this TUFXP 2.0, i can send it back within 30 days so that’s good.

    Is there any experienced forex traders willing to train me in how to make this work?

  164. JohnU says:


    With all due respect – especially against the background recounted endlessly on here, i am at a complete loss as to why you, or anyone elsewould reacha Buying Decision on this one! 30 days is a totally inadequate period i believe anyway. If i were you i wouldlearn one of the two mentioned above here, and use part of the 2k plus as yourinitial Bank, but not UNTIL YOU HAVE USED A DEMO ACCOUNT FIRST. Not sure what your priorexperience of Trading Forex is but i will be blunt and say that UNLESS YOU HAVE A SOUND PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE AND HAVE CONQUORED THE PSYCHOLOGICAL ASPECTS OF TRADING (WHICH IS ABOUT 90 % OF IT) THEN I DON’T THINK YOU, OR ANYONE ELSE, HAS ANY CHANCE WHATSOEVER OF SUCCEEDING WITH ANY METHOD. If in Doubt contact the likes of Julie Hatch or Larry Palmer by email!

  165. AKK says:

    Hi john. i just want a simple point and click system im not into that Fibonacci, MACD stuff.

    when to trade and how to trade that’s it.it cant be that hard or can it. come on is there nothing out there that can do that and make at least a few pounds.

    so hopefully i wont end up another Keith cotterill gimp.its not 2K its £500, so if i make that back great if not i will send back and get my refund.

    im going to look into the 2 systems you mentioned as well.


  166. Paul T says:

    If there was a ‘Point and Click’ system that worked, half the Country would be Millionaires!
    Don’t believe ANY of the hype, and start with Babypips to at least learn the basics.

  167. scarbough says:

    Hi guys,
    thankfully john has pointed out the mental aspect of betting and the importance of getting the set up correct,as that is as he rightly has said 90plus % of the battle with this game,ignore this at your peril, and you will be hopping from one system to another for a long time.
    Strategies do work differently for different people,nothing is black and white,and experience is the key,If you can not make £2 stakes work into a profit with a system,then it sure wont work with £200.
    Why do you think that people from all over the globe are constantly trying to create there own systems.Generally they will have more success doing it that way, there is a lot more self interest because its yours, and the lure of being one of the 2% that actually makes a few quid is a great goal.

  168. JohnU says:


    Again with respect – and i have just read your post on 1on1 Forex too – i believe you are being extremely niave ! What Paul T and Scarborough have said (plus dozens of others in the past is absolutely spot on). I syspect you have been mesmerised by the Hype surrounding Forex. If you have no previous experience then i’m afraid you just CAN’T make it work. You have been sold the ‘holy grail’ and there just isn’t one!
    The sheer multiplicity of variables in Forex makes for a ‘Psychological minefield’. It is a million miles from any of the other parts of the ‘Money Making’ spectrum -such as Horses, Football, Dogs, and General Business Opportunities and heaven knows they are challenging enough. You need to realise too that standards have dropped in recent yearsand there are massive numbers of totally Crapmethods out there. I wouldsay that if you get 1 in every 200 Forex Methods and maybe 1 in 100 of the others that actually Work medium to long term than thats about your lot.

    Life is all about choices and you have a perfect right of course to spend your money how you wish.
    If i was a ‘newbie’on here i would keep my hands in my pockets for at lest a month, or more reading and investigating.There are a lot of us out here with a lot of T – shirts and harsh lessons to recount!

    All the best whatever you do. Remember that Luck has almost nothing to do with the outcome of anything in Life!

  169. Bear1 says:

    @ JohnU

    Sound advice

  170. AKK says:

    Yes i have experience in Forex. thanks to AP and Canon, i have plenty of experience in sending this stuff back.

    its good to learn from what the experience forex ppl are saying that’s why i am asking the questions.

    also i am pleased to know that 2 systems out of a zillion work, it really gives me confidence going forward that there are alot of charlatans out there.

    all i can do is try and give it ago. or if someone is willing to teach others that wud be good.

    PS: the holy grail was found in france, by tom hanks, in that movie.

  171. niggy says:

    It always puzzles me that you state you make a number of pounds per day. Surely if you are good at trading PATe as you seem to be then you would be stating an average number of pips per day not pounds. If it is working for you then surely you would increase your price per pip – wouldn’t you?

  172. apt2doit says:

    I used this system several months ago, and I did not find it to be successful. Seeing it being re-launched again, I Emailed to enquire if its the same, or an improved offering! that was some weeks ago, I have not even received a reply!!

  173. martin77 says:

    Well its Oct 15th and The Ultimate FX Predictor is still being flogged :

    ” “It’s 7.29am, just made £185 before breakfast – doesn’t get much better than that!”

    I just got that in my email box.


    ps obviously that email is now binned.

  174. laurabain91 says:

    Thank god for this site!! I am now most definately keeping my money in the bank! Was almost taken in by the email! Oh well back to looking for something else to make a few extra quid!

  175. EDWARDS359 says:

    If we decide to trade forex we must have Some knowledge of it. Without it IS gambling. If you are not interested in the integral parts,I would advise against it. Learn the Fibonacci reactive level procedure at least. If you require a Signal only type system-try Bedtime Trader. It could turn out to be an Earn while you Learn interest. The writer is honest and you can see his past history,which makes a refreshing change!

  176. Albert30 says:

    Hi All – can someone recommend a spreadbetting account that allows me to trade 10p a pip? I was useing Shortspreads previosuly but looking to start afresh and start really small(i think their minimum is about 50p a pip) –

  177. JohnU says:


    Hi, I can tell you that GKFX will allow you to use 10p Minimum per pip. I do have an Account i opened with them, but would stress that at present i have not funded it, so i can say that i can actually recommend them as such, although to be fair there is no reason i have to doubt them in any way. I have rung there Customer Services people 3 times and they have been quick, helpful and efficient each time.
    I do intend to use it at some time in the near future.

    What i would say is that they have a ‘2 tiered’ pricing method for the cost of their Spreads, but for the Automated method i have found that for the 3 main Currency Pairs i am interested in at present(Cable, EUR/USD and EUR/JPY) they have a much larger Spread than either IG Index or Capital Spreads, so you would need to bear that in mind! I certainly would not want to be doing low time frame/scalping type trades with Spreads of between 2.6 and 2.9 which they are currently!

    I guess it’s ‘horses for courses’ and i would be interested to know – as i asked same Question on PATe thread a few days ago – how others who are using GKFX are actually getting on? Any comments would be gratefully received by myself and i’m sure Albert too!

    Hope this helps.

  178. JohnU says:

    sorry typo…3 rd line above ‘CANT say..’

  179. zagger says:

    “By 10.30 this morning I’d banked my first £1,000 pay day
    £1,023.57 to be precise.
    I still can’t believe it and am shaking and pumped with adrenalin.
    Pub landlord’s put the champers on ice and I think I’m going to have a very merry weekend!”

    More B.S from Keith Cotterill.
    Having already bought his crap products in the past
    NEVER EVER AGAIN !!!!!!!

  180. zagger says:

    The above by the way, is the start of Mr Cotterill’s latest mailshot.

  181. Albert30 says:

    @JohnU – will give GKFX a go


  182. hubo says:

    I have been using GKFX for over a year had some re quote
    issues on low time frames. No probs on the larger ones.

    A good company so far.

    Leave all Keith Cotterill products alone. See my earlier posts. Or read the 96% of negative posts on this site

  183. JohnU says:

    @ hubo

    Thanks, that is very helpful. Would you mind clarifying which groupings you are calling low time frames please? Did you have problems with say 15 minutes up to an hour at all? I am surprised they are quite as expensive for spreads as they are compared to IG and CapSpreads – i guess that is the price we pay for trading such low pip levels!

    Any problems with withdrawing any funds from them, assuming you have requested them at all?

    Many thanks. John

  184. hubo says:

    *** DELETED BY MOD ****

    @ HUBO – yet again you libel a company and two indvividuals.

    I don’t care that you are still a full paid up member. It does not give you the right to post libellous comments on this site. And 100% what you wrote is libellous. If you want to make such libellous views, take out an advert in the Evening Standard and repeat your claims. And then try and defend yourself in court. Don’t hide behind a log in on a forum. Because both you and I would be held accountable for your remarks if I let them remain here.

    You repetitive libellous comments put this site in danger and therefore I have no option but to move your posts to moderation.

    If you wish to write to me with a detailed breakdown explaining in reasonable terms your experience then of course it can be published. But you have to back up your claims with your own experience and details of why an offer doesn’t work. BUt do so in a responsible manner that acturally educates and informs other members. Just spouting off libellous remarks doesn’t actually help anyone. You cannot make claims in the tone and manner you are because it damages this site and means we have to spend more money on fighting legal action, and less on buying and testing products.

    • hubo says:

      After detailing my experience of Keith Cotterill
      and Jack and my post concerning his dishonesty in my opinion. Having bought TUFXP and followed the system
      to the absolute for 3 years, I have lost a lot of money. I bought Keith Cotterill’s strategy and did not return it within the 30 days. As a member I still look at the daily overviews and consider it to be a joke.So easy with hindsight.

  185. Patrick2e says:


    Damn…I thought you were talking about yourself and was just about to congratulate you lol 😉

  186. welly says:

    moderator please note;
    only an ‘untrue’ comment can be libellous-
    in a court room scenario the onus is upon the’victim’ to prove that the statement written was untrue.
    if, for example a contributor stated that’Keith Cotterill’s strategy is a total fraud’
    and KC took offence and issued proceedings in libel,
    it would be for KC to prove to the court that he had and does make profitable trades using the strategy.

  187. welly says:

    also, -apologies if this has been mentioned previously in this particular forum-
    software like Cotterlill’ is for the greater part the proverbial ‘smoke and mirrors’ in other words it is nothing more than a bunch of traditional indicators
    ( moving averages, volume indicators, mc’d etc )all of which are available for free on MT4 and any spreadbet platform)but parading as something very special which they certainly are not. Traders switched away from the usual indicators because they were promised something technically advanced by the likes of KC, but all they got was more of the same- as KC ( or was it Einstein ) says and a beautifully book ‘The Ultimate Trading secret'( available free online ) if you get bad results and keep using the same formula, all you will get are the same bad results. I wouldn’t call KC a fraudster but he’s darn good at convincing people ( including himself ) that strategies he claims to have designed produce constant profits when in fact they do so very rarely and will lose you tons of dosh !

  188. Jack Whiteman says:

    UPDATE – 15th November 2013:

    We have been notified that the Ultimate FX Predictor software package has been revised and updated and is no longer being sold in the format that was reviewed here. We hear that a brand new version of the software is in production and will be released soon. We will keep you updated on its release.

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