The A Minus B System Review

| November 23, 2012 | 285 Replies

Product Name: The ‘A Minus B’ System

Author: David Houghton (pseudonym used by John Piper)

Company Name & Contact Details:
Streetwise Publications Ltd,
Eden House,
Genesis Park,
Sheffield Road,
S60 1DX
Tel: 01709 820033
Fax:  01709 360611

Price: £375.00

Money Back Guarantee: 30 days

Where To Buy:

Brief Summary:

The ‘A Minus B’ System from David Houghton is a betting system that involves subtracting one number from another in order to work out if there is a bet or not. They claim it is not a sports or casino betting system, and that it has nothing to do with forex either.

What’s It All About?

After joining you receive a pack that contains an 87 page colour illustrated manual and four DVD’s. The DVD’s consist of approx. 5 hours of footage from a full day seminar that was held to present the system to a large group of new subscribers.

The manual provides a text backup of the information from the seminar. The instructions are very thorough and provide a comprehensive explanation of how to operate the system. This service does not provide any messages about what to bet; the onus is on the member to check everything themselves and to select the bets each day according to the rules.

To operate you need a spread betting account for the financial markets and IG Index is their recommended provider although you could use others. You do not need any experience in trading the markets as this is a mathematical system based on observation.

This system involves trading the German Stock market (the Dax) and a specific set of rules are used to decide whether it is appropriate to bet and how to do it. The Trading period is between 0800 and 1630 (British time) and any live bets are closed  at 1630.

The bets are decided on a daily basis and they say that on average there will be 3 betting days per week. This does involve a certain amount of discipline as the decision for betting/not betting are made at 0800 according to a predefined list of rules and bets are only possible between Monday and Friday.

Once the decision is made at that time, that is the end of the work for the day except to possibly check back into the system at 1100 to make some occasional minor adjustments. The bets are then automatic and are terminated according to winning or losing using win/loss parameters installed into your betting process. If it is a “no bet day” at 0800 then that’s it for that day.

The betting bank is recommended at 0.1% per point i.e £1,000 for every £1 per point bet and they are strict about being disciplined with this. On average they say that there is likely to be 3 betting days per week and they are expecting approx. 300  points profit in a month.

There is a “stop-loss” operating which should restrict any loss to an absolute maximum of 52 points on any bet and at 1100 there are rules that give the opportunity to reduce any potential loss according to the trading so far on the day.

While the rules are well defined it is likely that there could be small differences in the daily interpretation of the bets when it is a marginal call about whether to bet or not.

These results are my interpretation of the rules and what I have been betting.


The results will be updated four-weekly and I will monitor them for each trading week starting with a £1,000 bank and £1 per point, increasing at 0.1% of bank. We started on Monday 19th May 2014. Commission is taken by the bookie from each  winning trade – I’m using I.G. Index to begin with which takes 1 pt on each bet. This has been deducted from the profit figures.


Seven bets across the 20 available days which is less than the norm (anticipated 12 bets). All were winning bets so 100% success rate. A profit of 132 pts was made which is less than the anticipated 300+ pts. but still an excellent start to this trial.

Week Commencing 19th May

MON: A bet today – betting on a rise in the DAX. The bet was triggered at 0805 and was terminated at 0815 – WON 10 pts.
TUES: No bet indicated today.
WEDS: A bet today – betting on a rise in the DAX. The bet was triggered at 0808 and was terminated at 0850. – WON 28 pts.
THURS: A bet today – betting on a drop in the DAX. The bet was triggered at 0820 and was terminated at 1005 – WON 19 pts.
FRI: No bet indicated today.

WEEKLY SUMMARY: Three bets with three winners.
WEEKY TOTAL: Profit of 57 pts.

Week Commencing 26th May

MON: No bet indicated today. A bet was indicated but it never triggered to start.
TUES: No bet indicated today.
WEDS: No bet indicated today.
THUR: No bet indicated today.
FRI: No bet indicated today.

WEEKLY SUMMARY: No bets in the week.
WEEKY TOTAL: No profit or loss.

Week Commencing 2nd June

MON: A bet today – betting on a drop in the DAX. The bet was triggered at 0805 and was terminated at 1430 – WON 37 pts.
TUES: No bet indicated today.
WEDS:  A bet today – betting on a rise in the DAX. The bet was triggered at 0808 and was terminated at 0820 –  WON 14 pts.
THURS: No bet indicated today.
FRI: A bet today – betting on a drop in the DAX. The bet was triggered at 0810 and was terminated at 0830 – WON 13 pts.

WEEKLY SUMMARY: Three bets with three winners.
WEEKY TOTAL: Profit of 64 pts.

Week Commencing 9th June

MON: No bet indicated today.
TUES: No bet indicated today.
WEDS: No bet indicated today.
THURS: No bet indicated today.
FRI: A bet today – betting on a rise in the DAX. The bet was triggered late in the day at 1600 and was terminated at 1608 – WON 11 pts.

WEEKLY SUMMARY: Only one bet which was a winner.
WEEKY TOTAL: Profit of 11 pts.

You can see a breakdown in excel form by clicking here.


I’ve seen ten bets across the 20 available days in the month, which makes it 17 bets in 40 days since we started and this is less than the norm they quote (anticipated 24 bets).

We had our first losing bet, which totals one in 8 weeks so we have a 94% success rate. Curiously a profit of 132 pts was made in the second month which is identical to the first month.

That totals 264 pts in eight weeks which is less than half the anticipated 600+ pts quoted in their advertising but we still have a nice profit with no losing runs and it remains a good start to this trial.

Week Commencing 16th June  (week 5)

MON: A bet today – betting on a rise in the DAX.  The bet was triggered at 0805 and was terminated at 1512 – WON 33 pts.
TUES: A bet today – betting on a drop in the DAX.  The bet was triggered at 1118 and was terminated at 1135 – WON 22 pts.
WEDS: A bet today – betting on a drop in the DAX.  The bet was triggered at 0806 and was terminated at 0843 – WON 11 pts on the bet.
THURS: A bet today – betting on a drop in the DAX.  The bet was triggered at 0810  A Stop Loss adjustment was made at 1100 according to the rules. The bet went all day without reaching it’s target and was terminated automatically at the close of business at 1630 – WON 7 pts.
FRI:  No bet indicated today.

WEEKLY SUMMARY:  Four bets which were all winners.  Still no losing days after 5 weeks of trading.
WEEKY TOTAL: Profit of 85 pts which is the best yet.
RUNNING TOTAL SINCE START:  Profit of 217 pts.

Week Commencing 23rd June (week 6)

MON:   No bet indicated today.
TUES:  A bet today – betting on a drop in the DAX.  The bet was triggered at 0830 and was terminated at 0845 – WON 10 pts.
WEDS:  A bet today – betting on a rise in the DAX.  The bet was triggered at 0810 and it was terminated at 1340 when the amended “stop-loss” was triggered – LOST 27 pts (this is the first losing bet in the trial).
THURS:  A bet today – betting on a drop in the DAX. The bet was triggered at 0810 and was terminated at 0915 – WON 18 pts.
FRI:  No bet indicated today.

WEEKLY SUMMARY:  Three bets which consisted of 2 winners and one loser. This was the first losing day.
WEEKY TOTAL:  Profit of 1 pt so still a profitable week (just).
RUNNING TOTAL SINCE START:  Profit of 218 pts.

Week Commencing 30th June (week 7)

MON:   No bet indicated today.
TUES:  A bet today – betting on a drop in the DAX. The bet was triggered at 0810 and was terminated at 0910 – WON 15 pts.
WEDS: A bet today – betting on a drop in the DAX. The bet was triggered at 0825 and it was terminated at 1425. A Stop Loss adjustment was made at 1100 according to the rules – WON 9 pts.
THURS: No bet indicated today.
FRI: No bet indicated today.

WEEKLY SUMMARY:  Two bets which were both winners.
WEEKY TOTAL: Profit of 24 pts for the week.

Week Commencing 7th July (week 8)

MON: A bet today – betting on a rise in the DAX. The bet was triggered at 0810 and was terminated at 0820 – WON 22 pts.
TUES: No bet indicated today.
WEDS:  No bet indicated today.
THURS:   No bet indicated today.
FRI:  No bet indicated today.

WEEKLY SUMMARY:  One bet, which was a winner.
WEEKY TOTAL: Profit of 22 pts for the week.
RUNNING TOTAL SINCE START:  Profit of 264 pts.

You can see a breakdown in excel form by clicking here.


Twelve bets across the 20 available days in the third month makes it 29 bets in 60 days since we started and this is slightly less than the norm they quote (anticipated 36 bets).

We had five more losing bets during the month, which now totals six in 12 weeks so we have a 79% success rate.  It appears that we may be experiencing the dreaded, inevitable “losing run” after a good start.

A profit of 61 pts was made in the third month which is only half that made in each of the first two months.

That totals 325 pts in 12 weeks which is around a third of the anticipated 900+ pts quoted in their advertising – but we still have a nice profit with no long losing runs.

So we still recommend this to our readers.

Week Commencing 14th July (week 9)

MON: A bet today – betting on a fall in the DAX.  The bet was triggered at 0810 and the stop was amended at 1100 and immediately triggered.  The bet  was terminated at 1100 – LOST 42 pts.

TUES: A bet today – betting on a rise in the DAX.  The bet was triggered at 0807 and was terminated at 0812.  A quick profit – WON 12 pts.

WEDS: A down bet was indicated today but it never reached it’s entry point so ultimately a No Bet Day.

THURS: A bet today – betting on a rise in the DAX.  The bet was triggered at 0835 and the stop was tightened at 1100.  This stop loss point was reached at 1140 and the bet was terminated – LOST 30 pts (but it would have been greater (52 pts) if the stop had been left untouched).

FRI:  A bet today – betting on a rise in the DAX which is a concern as the system warns about betting on a rising market on a Friday.  However my one previous bet like this was profitable so I decided to go with it.   The bet was triggered at 0850 and went all day – LOST 8 pts.

WEEKLY SUMMARY:  A busy week with four bets but unusually only one was a winner.  By far the worst week yet with three losing days but still showing a total profit.

WEEKY TOTAL:  Loss of 68 pts for the week.

RUNNING TOTAL SINCE START:  Profit of 196 pts.

Week Commencing 21st July (week 10)

MON: No bet indicated today.

TUES:  A bet today – betting on a fall in the DAX.  The bet was triggered at 0810 and the stop was amended at 1100. The bet  was terminated at 1330 when it hit the amended stop-loss –  LOST 30 pts.

WEDS: No bet indicated today.

THURS:  A bet today – betting on a rise in the DAX.  The bet was triggered at 0910 and terminated at 0915.  A quick profit – WON 21 pts .

FRI:  A bet today – betting on a rise in the DAX.  The bet was triggered at 0805 and terminated at 0935 – WON 23 pts (and yet again this went against the recommendation of not betting up on a Friday).

WEEKLY SUMMARY:  An average week with three bets but unusually we had another loser.  However we rallied to end with a small profit.

WEEKY TOTAL:  Profit of 14 pts for the week.

RUNNING TOTAL SINCE START:  Profit of 210 pts.

Week Commencing 28th July (week 11)

MON: No bet indicated today.

TUES:  A bet today – betting on a fall in the DAX.  The bet was triggered at 0810 and it was terminated at 0825 – WON 19 pts.

WEDS:   No bet indicated today.

THURS:  No bet indicated today.

FRI: A bet was indicated today (a rise) which once again would go against the rule of not betting up on a Friday.  It was never triggered to start as the Dax suffered a huge drop all day of over 180 pts.  So eventually a “no bet” day.

WEEKLY SUMMARY: A below-average week with only one bet to end with a small profit.

WEEKY TOTAL:  Profit of 19 pts for the week.

RUNNING TOTAL SINCE START:  Profit of 229 pts.

Week Commencing 4th August (week 12)

MON:   No bet indicated today.

TUES:  A bet today – betting on a fall in the DAX.  The bet was triggered at 1435 and it was terminated at 1455 – WON 18 pts.

WEDS:  A bet today – betting on a rise in the DAX.  The bet was triggered at 0815 but it fell sharply and the Stop Loss was triggered at 1005 to confirm a loss.  Later in the day the DAX shot back up to finish ahead – LOST  52 pts.

THURS:   A bet today – betting on a rise in the DAX.  A straightforward day, the bet being triggered at 0805 and hitting it’s target at 0905 – WON 42 pts quickly on the day.

FRI:   A bet was indicated today (a rise) which once again would go against the rule of not betting Up on a Friday.  It was triggered to start at 0805.  It was quite volatile and the Stop was nearly adjusted at 1100 to lock in the profit already made but fortunately it did not qualify and it then shot up and made an excellent profit.   The bet was terminated at 1300 – WON 88 pts.

WEEKLY SUMMARY:  An above-average week with 4 bets to end with a decent profit.   The DAX was very volatile this week, rising and falling considerably.

WEEKY TOTAL:  Profit of 96 pts for the week.

RUNNING TOTAL SINCE START:  Profit of 325 pts.

This produces an average of 27.08 pts per week during the trial.  The third month produced a profit of just 61 pts which is around half of that in the first two months.

We’ll continue to test but for now it’s STILL RECOMMENDED.

Trial result – full excel breakdown.

Week Commencing 11th August (week 13)

MON: A bet today – betting on a fall in the DAX.  The bet was triggered at 0810 and it was terminated at 1130 when it hit the Stop Loss as it had risen considerably – LOST 52 pts.

TUES: No bet indicated today.

WEDS: A bet was indicated today for a fall in the DAX but it rose steadily all day and never triggered the start of the bet so ultimately it was a No Bet day.

THURS: A bet today – betting on a rise in the DAX.  A straightforward day, the bet being triggered at 0807 and hitting it’s target at 1110 – WON 25 pts.

FRI: No bet indicated today.

WEEKLY SUMMARY:  A losing week and only two bets which is below average.  It LOST 27 pts

WEEKY TOTAL:  Loss of 27 pts for the week.

RUNNING TOTAL SINCE START: Profit of 298 pts.  This produces an average of 22.92 pts per week during the trial.

Week Commencing 18th August (week 14)

MON: A bet today – betting on a fall in the DAX.  The bet was triggered at 1048 and it was terminated at 1628 when it hit the Stop Loss as it had risen considerably during the afternoon – LOST 52 pts.

TUES: No bet indicated today as the start was never triggered due to the DAX moving in the opposite direction and never hitting the Start point.

WEDS: No bet indicated today.

THURS: No bet indicated today.

FRI: No bet indicated today.

WEEKLY SUMMARY: A losing week and only one bet which is below the three expected.  It LOST 52 pts

WEEKY TOTAL:  Loss of 52 pts for the week.  We certainly seem to have hit the “losing run”.

RUNNING TOTAL SINCE START:  Profit of 246 pts.  This produces an average of 17.57 pts per week during the trial.  According to their advertising this should be showing a profit of around 1,000 pts at this stage.

Week Commencing 25th August (week 15)

MON: Bank holiday so no bet today.

TUES:  A bet today, betting on a rise in the Dax after the long weekend.  The bet was triggered at 0925 and hit it’s target at 1150 – WON 22 pts.

WEDS: No bet indicated today.

THURS: No bet although an UP bet was indicated but the Dax dropped all day and the bet was never started.

FRI: A bet today, betting on a fall in the Dax.  The bet was triggered at 1010 and hit it’s target at 1050 -WON 14 pts.

WEEKLY SUMMARY:  A winning week with two bets, both winners and a PROFIT made of 36 pts.

WEEKY TOTAL:  Profit of 36 pts for the week.  Back to winning ways.

RUNNING TOTAL SINCE START:  Profit of 282 pts.  This produces an average of 18.80 pts per week during the trial.  According to their advertising this should be showing a profit of around 1,100 pts at this stage.

Week Commencing 1st September (week 16)

MON: No bet indicated today.

TUES: A bet today, betting on a fall in the Dax.  The bet was triggered at 1230, nearly hit it’s target of 37 pts profit in md-afternoon but ended at 1630 with a smaller profit –  WON 16 pts.

WEDS: A bet today, betting on a fall in the DAX.  The bet was triggered at 0856 when it fell briefly but it rose quickly and consistently all day and met the Stop Loss level very quickly at 0900 – LOST 52 pts.

THURS: A bet indicated today, betting on a rise in the Dax.  A strange day.  Fortunately the bet wasn’t triggered initially as the Dax plummeted all morning. Then at 1120 it started to shoot up and the bet was triggered at 1145 and it continued rapidly upwards, closing at 1150 – WON 18 pts on the day.  That was a rollercoaster ride today – it was 1 pt away from starting at 0808 and if it had it would have hit the Stop Loss an hour later and been 52 pts down.  Phew!

FRI: No bet indicated today.

WEEKLY SUMMARY:  A losing week with three bets, two winners and a LOSS made of 18 pts.

WEEKY TOTAL:  Loss of 18 pts for the week.

RUNNING TOTAL SINCE START:  Profit of 264 pts.  This produces an average of 16.50 pts per week during the trial.  According to their advertising this should be showing a profit of around 1,200 pts at this stage.

This is now worrying me a little as it’s lost the early consistency and is only level on performance over the last 8 weeks.

Week Commencing 8th September (week 17)

MON: No bet indicated today.

TUES: No bet indicated today.

WEDS: A bet today, betting on a rise in the DAX.  The bet was triggered at 0813 when it fell rapidly to near the Stop Loss mark but then rose quickly to hit the tarfet at 1052 -WON 24 pts on the day.

THURS: A bet indicated today, betting on a fall in the Dax.  A straightforward day with the bet triggered at 0806 and ending at 0937 – WON 15 pts on the day.

FRI: No bet indicated today.

WEEKLY SUMMARY:  A winning week, with two bets and two winners for a profit of 39 pts.

WEEKLY TOTAL:  Profit of 39 pts for the week.

RUNNING TOTAL SINCE START: Profit of 303 pts –  this produces an average of 17.82 pts per week during the trial. According to their advertising this should now be showing a profit of around 1,275 pts at this stage.

Week Commencing 15th September (week 18)

MON: A bet today, betting on a rise in the DAX.  The bet was triggered at 0807 and on a straightforward day it rose to hit the target at 0903.  It swiftly WON 33 pts on the day.

TUES: No bet indicated today.

WEDS: A bet today, betting on a fall in the DAX.  The bet was triggered at 0848 and it seesawed all day. The Stop was tightened at 1100 to minimise any losses but the trade continued all day to the close at 1630 to show a small profit -WON 7 pts on the day.

THURS: A bet indicated today, betting on a fall in the Dax.  It started at 0822 but immediately rose sharply and hit the Stop Loss at 0907.  It LOST 52 pts on the day.

FRI: A bet today, betting on a fall in the DAX.  The Dax rose rapidly but then fell and the bet was finally triggered at 1208.  It nearly hit the target at 1300 but then seesawed until finally hitting the target at 1630 when we stop the trade.  It WON 45 points on the day.

WEEKLY SUMMARY:  Another winning week with four bets and three winners.

WEEKLY TOTAL:  Profit of 33 pts for the week.

RUNNING TOTAL SINCE START:  Profit of 336 pts.  This brings the average up to 18.66 pts per week during the trial.  According to their advertising this should now be showing a profit of around 1,350 pts at this stage.

Week Commencing 22nd September (week 19)

MON: A bet today, betting on a rise in the DAX.  The bet was triggered at 0810 and it rose.  The Stop was adjusted at 1100 to preserve some of the profit already made but the bet continued.  It hit the target at 1300 and was stopped.  It WON 41 pts on the day.

TUES: A “rise” bet was indicated but the entry point was never hit so it was a no bet day.

WEDS: A bet today, betting on a rise in the DAX.  The bet was triggered at 0805 and it fell almost immediately for a straightforward day.  It WON 9 pts on the day.

THURS:  No bet indicated today.

FRI: A no bet day after a huge drop in the Dax yesterday.  It opened within 12 pts of the previous days close and within the first 5 minutes fell sharply by 20 pts and then rose back to be near yesterday’s close.

WEEKLY SUMMARY: Another good winning week with two bets, both winners.

WEEKLY TOTAL:  Profit of 50 pts for the week and that’s the third consecutive winning week.

RUNNING TOTAL SINCE START:  Profit of 386 pts. This brings the average up to 20.31 pts per week during the trial.  According to their advertising this should now be showing a profit of around 1,425 pts at this stage.

Week Commencing 29th September (week 20)

MON: No bet indicated today.

TUES: A very straightforward day with a bet on a fall in the DAX.  The bet started at 0806 and ended 4 minutes later at 0810.  It WON 15 pts on the day

WEDS: Another simple day with a bet on a rise in the DAX.  A three minute trade started at 0806 and it was all over by 0809.  It WON 11 pts on the day

THURS:  A bet today, betting on a rise in the DAX.  The Dax fell at the start but then rose to trigger the trade at 1102.  It reached the target at 1213 and WON 14 pts on the day.

FRI: A bet was indicated today for a fall in the Dax.  The bet was triggered at 0852 but it went the other way and the Stop was amended at 1100 to 30 pts.  It hit the Stop at 1332 for a LOSS of 30 pts on the day.

WEEKLY SUMMARY:  A small winning week but it was shaping to be an excellent one until it was spoilt on Friday.  There were four bets with three winners and a profit of 10 pts.

WEEKLY TOTAL:  Profit of 10 pts for the week and that’s the fourth consecutive winning week.

RUNNING TOTAL SINCE START:  Profit of 396 pts.  This brings the average up to 19.80 pts per week during the trial.  According to their advertising this should now be showing a profit of around 1,500 pts at this stage.  This is now showing a profit on the starting bank of 43% using increasing stakes.

You can see a full breakdown of my results here:

A Minus B Results

Week Commencing 6th October (week 21)

MON:  A bet indicated today on a fall in the DAX.  It was triggered at 0806 and rose briefly but then fell consistently to hit the target at 1043 for a big winning day.  It WON 53 pts on the day.  What a start to the trading week !

TUES: A bet was indicated today for a rise in the DAX but the index fell sharply and never reached the start point so we finished with a No Bet day.

WEDS: A bet indicated today for a rise on the DAX.  The bet was triggered at 0818 and it rose nicely towards our target.  Unfortunately it then plummeted and hit our Stop level at 1008.  It LOST 52 pts on the day which is our maximum stop-loss level.  That’s blown our profit from Monday !

THURS:  A bet indicated today for a fall in the DAX.  The bet was triggered at 1133 and it rose briefly but then fell nicely towards our target and reached it at 1244.  It WON 57 pts on the day.

FRI:  A strange day, which highlights the importance of having some background knowledge.  Strict adherence to the basic rules today would have indicated a rise bet and it would have stopped out very quickly to lose 52 pts.  The DAX rose briefly to trigger the bet but it then plummeted by over 140 pts and never recovered all day.

After reviewing the performance over a long period, I decided many weeks ago never to bet on a rise on Fridays.  The training DVDs do recommend great caution for doing a rise bet on a Friday due to the tendency for speculators to profit-take at the end of the week which often depresses the market.

Today is a clear justification for using this strategy.  Phew !

WEEKLY SUMMARY:  Three bets which is their average.  It was a winning week, which makes it five successive winning weeks.

A volatile period with much movement and if we’d traded on Friday the week’s profit would have been reduced to only 6 points.

WEEKLY TOTAL:  Profit of 58 pts for the week.

RUNNING TOTAL SINCE START:  Profit of 454 pts.  This brings the average up to 21.62 pts per week during the trial.  According to their advertising this should now be showing a profit of around 1,575 pts at this stage.

This is now showing a profit on the starting bank of 51% using increasing stakes.

Week Commencing 13th October (week 22)

MON: A bet indicated today for a rise in the DAX.  It fell sharply for most of last week so we are anticipating a rise this week although I must stress that this system operates purely on figures and not on opinion.  A superb day ensued as it started at 0807 and shot up to hit the target at 0932.  It WON 86 pts which is above the weekly target.

TUES: A bet indicated today for a rise in the DAX.  A short trade today, starting at 0807 and ending at 0843 for a quick profit.  It WON 34 pts on the day.

WEDS: No bet indicated today.

THURS: A bet indicated today for a fall in the DAX following a volatile yesterday when it fell over 300 points.  The bet started at 0836 and the Dax plummeted to hit our target at 0844.  It WON 44 pts.  The Dax was extremely volatile again today, initially dropping over 200 pts and see-sawing all day to head back to where it started.

FRI: Another very simple day.  A bet indicated on a fall in the DAX and it duly obliged, starting at 0806 and hitting the target 11 minutes later to close out the week.  It WON 17 pts on the day.  Interesting to note that the Dax then shot up dramatically.

WEEKLY SUMMARY:  Four bets, all winners, which is above their average.  An excellent winning week, the best yet, and that makes it six successive winning weeks.

Interesting to note that this was an extremely volatile week for the world’s stock markets, the Dax included, and yet it had very quick, straightforward and profitable trades.

WEEKLY TOTAL:   Profit of 181 pts on the week, the best yet.

RUNNING TOTAL SINCE START:   Profit of 635 pts using level stakes.  This brings the average up to 28.86 pts per week during the trial.  According to their advertising this should now be showing a profit of around 1,650 pts at this stage.

This is now showing a profit on the starting bank of 80% using increasing stakes.

Week Commencing 20th October (week 23)

MON: No bet indicated today.

TUES: A bet today going for a rise in the DAX.  A very quick winning bet today, starting at 0821 and ending three minutes later at 0824.  It WON 19 pts.

WEDS: A bet today on a fall in the DAX.  It started at 0808 and hit the target at 0913 and WON another 35 pts on the day.

THURS: A bet today on a rise in the DAX and another quick-fire profit, this time in just 5 minutes.  It started at 0837 and shot up to hit it’s target at 0842.  A profit made of 34pts on the day.

FRI: No bet made today.  There was a possible Rise Bet but we don’t do these on a Friday.  (It would have resulted in a small loss on the day).

WEEKLY SUMMARY:  Three bets, all winners, which is their average.  Another excellent winning week, making more than their stated target (75), and that makes it seven successive winning weeks.

WEEKLY TOTAL:   Profit of 88 pts on the week.

RUNNING TOTAL SINCE START:   Profit of 723 pts using level stakes.  This brings the average up to 31.43 pts per week during the trial.  According to their advertising this should now be showing a profit of around 1,725 pts at this stage.

This is now showing a profit on the starting bank of 97% using increasing stakes.

Week Commencing 27th October (week 24)

MON: A bet indicated today for a fall in the DAX and a superb start to the trading week.  The trade opened at 0807 and closed at 0900 for a profit that nearly reached the stated weekly target.  It WON 71 pts on the day.

TUES: A “down” bet was indicated but we finished with a “No Bet” day as the DAX rose immediately, stayed high all day and it never triggered our start point.

WEDS:  A bet today on a fall in the DAX.  It turned out to be a long day as the bet was triggered at 0833 and it finally ended at 1608 for a nice profit.  The Stop was reduced at 1100 and during the day the index moved up and down and nearly hit both the Stop and the target.  It finally WON 46pts on the day – nice !

THURS: Another bet, almost a mirror image of yesterday but much quicker.  Betting on a fall in the DAX.  It started at 0812 and fell quickly to end our bet at 0917.  It WON 48pts on the day.

FRI:  A bet today on a fall in the DAX.  It started at 0806 and fell immediately but then rose during the day.  The Stop was tightened to 30 pts at 1100 and it hit the new Stop at 1147 for a loss.  It LOST 30pts which was a bit of a shock as it’s the first losing day for two and a half weeks.

WEEKLY SUMMARY:  Four bets, three winners, which is above their average.  Another excellent winning week, spoilt slightly by losing on Friday but still making much more than their stated target (75), and that makes it eight successive winning weeks.

WEEKLY TOTAL:   Profit of 135 pts on the week.

RUNNING TOTAL SINCE START:   Profit of 858 pts using level stakes.  This brings the average up to 35.75 pts per week during the trial.  According to their advertising this should now be showing a profit of around 1,800 pts.

The starting bank has now more than doubled and it is now showing a profit on the starting bank of 124% using increasing stakes.

We still recommend this product. It’s not as profitable as the marketing says it will be but still showing a great profit even in volatile weeks.

Week Commencing 3rd November (week 25)

MON: No bet indicated today.

TUES: No bet indicated today.

WEDS: A bet today on a fall in the DAX.  It turned out to be the worst day for several weeks.  It started at 08:27am and dropped slightly but then rose rapidly to hit the Stop mark at 09:03am.  It LOST 52 pts on the day.

THURS: No bet indicated today.

FRI: Betting today on a fall in the DAX.  A quick trading day starting at 08:07am and ending at 08:19am for a quick profit.  It WON 20 pts on the day.

WEEKLY SUMMARY:  A slow trading week with only two bets for the first losing week for a while.  This is below their average of three bets per week.  That’s broken the run of eight successive winning weeks.

WEEKLY TOTAL:   Loss of 32 pts on the week.

RUNNING TOTAL SINCE START:  Profit of 826 pts using level stakes.  This brings the average up to 33.04 pts per week during the trial.  According to their advertising this should now be showing a profit of around 1,875 pts.

The starting bank has now more than doubled and it is now showing a profit on the starting bank of 116% using increasing stakes.

Week Commencing 10th November (week 26)

MON: A bet today on a rise in the DAX.  A very quick and profitable day in a ten minute trade.  It started at 08:07am and rose quickly to end at 08:17am.  It WON 32 pts on the day.

TUES: A possibility of a small “down” bet today but the projected profit turned out to be only 8pts and that’s not worth the risk of having a bet and potentially losing up to 52 pts.  So it was a “no bet” day.  It would have won.

WEDS: A poor day.  The system indicated an Up bet for a potential small profit of 15 pts.  It was triggered at 08:07am, rose briefly and then plummeted downwards to hit the Stop by 08:22am.  It LOST 52 pts.

THURS:  A bet indicated today for a drop in the DAX.  An exciting day.  The bet started at 08:06am and the Dax shot up in the wrong direction to reach a level that was just one point below our Stop.  It then moved rapidly downwards moving well over 100pts and hit our target at 1306.  Phew!  It made a profit of 54 pts on the day.

FRI:   A bet indicated today for a drop in the DAX.  Another marginal decision as to whether to have a bet but the feeling was positive as it was “down” on a Friday.  It started at 08:06am and ended at 08:32am for a profit.  It WON 9pts on the day.

WEEKLY SUMMARY:  A busy trading week with four bets.  This is above their average of three bets per week.   A mixed week, hitting the Stop once and missing it again by a whisker.  Still, back on the winning track.

WEEKLY TOTAL:   Profit of 43 pts on the week to make up last week’s loss.

RUNNING TOTAL SINCE START:   Profit of 869 pts using level stakes.  This brings the average up to 33.42 pts per week during the trial.  According to their advertising this should now be showing a profit of around 1,950 pts.

The starting bank is now showing a profit on the starting bank of 125% using increasing stakes.

Week Commencing 17th November (week 27)

MON: A bet today on a rise in the DAX.  The bet started at 08:07am and it rose steadily all morning.  At 11.00 a.m. the Stop was adjusted to 9208 to protect some of the profit already made and it nearly fell to this but then rose again to hit it’s target at 1224 for an excellent day.  It WON 67 pts on the day.

TUES: A “down” bet was indicated today but the DAX shot upwards from the start and the bet was not triggered so we had a “no bet” day.  The DAX actually moved up over 150 pips.

WEDS: No bet indicated today.

THURS:  No bet indicated today.

FRI:  A “down” bet was indicated but it never started as the DAX shot up immediately and rose massively during the day to finish over 250 pips higher.

WEEKLY SUMMARY:  A slow trading week with only one winning bet.

WEEKLY TOTAL:   Profit of 67 pts on the week which was near to the target in just one bet.

RUNNING TOTAL SINCE START:   Profit of 936 pts using level stakes.  This brings the average to 34.67 pts per week during the trial.  According to their advertising this should now be showing a profit of around 2,025 pts.

Week Commencing 24th November (week 28)

MON:  No bet indicated today.

TUES:   No bet indicated today.

WEDS:  A “down” bet was indicated today but the DAX shot upwards from the start and the bet was not triggered until 12.58.  It dropped towards our target but then rose again to finish the day at our 1630 close for a loss.  It LOST 38 pts on the day.

THURS:   No bet indicated today.  It was close to being a small Down Bet but was ignored as it was not worth the risk to make under 10 pts profit (would have lost 52 pts).

FRI:  No bet indicated today.

WEEKLY SUMMARY:  A very slow trading week with only one bet which was a loser.

WEEKLY TOTAL:   Loss of 38 pts on the week.


We’ve made a profit of 898 pts using level stakes.  This brings the average to 32.07 pts per week during the trial.

According to their advertising this should now be showing a profit of around 2,100 pts.

The starting bank is now showing a profit on the starting bank of 131% using increasing stakes.

Still recommended as still making good profits.

You can see a full breakdown of my results here:

A Minus B System Results


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Category: Betting, Betting Systems, Binary Options Trading Systems

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  1. scorpioeyes says:

    i have just recieved the mailshot.Never had anything from streetwise that worked but nonetheless am curious about this. any idea what its about,Jack?

    • kevinhale100 says:

      I’m going to buy this as if it’s no good, they will refund your money – I’ve bought a few things from Streetwise before and had mixed fortunes but generally positive. I have adapted one of their systems which now works miles better than the original version so it sometimes helps to use their ideas as a basis for a system.

      Will let you know how I get on in a week or so.

  2. don555 says:

    scorpioeyes will you be reporting back to see if it is worth buying

  3. cashbags says:


  4. paulmmr says:

    I also received this mailshot today, would be interested to know if it works, but have my doubts

  5. timberly27 says:

    I too received the A-B Streetwise mailshgot today. Any advices would be appreciated. They always make it sound very interesting, don`t they?

  6. John.A says:

    Seems too good to be true to me DELETED BY MOD – DON’T POST LIBELLOUS COMMENTS However, I’d love to be proved wrong!

  7. LizzyG says:

    Oh crumbs, seems like everyone is intrigued, but because its Streetwise, nobody’s brave enough to take the first step. I’ve also received the mailshot today to. Streetwise have always honoured my refunds. Having said that, it’s been a while since I purchased from them. I just wish they’d blimmin’ well tell you what their schemes are based on and stop playing with everyone’s head! This one sounds a bit like binary betting with the DAX, but like you guys, its a bit mysterious!

  8. JohnU says:

    Some very interesting comments on here. When you think about its all pure Psychology!

    I haven’t bought anything from Streetwise in a few years now, but when i did some things were quite good others not so, but they always honoured Refunds then.

    The standard of Copy writing is excellent, and it has made John Harrison a millionaire. What is excellent is that he can draw you into ‘temptation’ without really giving too much away. Folk are lead in to the point where they think ‘is this THE one then’? You think to yourself i really don’t want to miss out if it is!

    Overall, in my humble opinion, the general standard of ‘money making’ products has dropped alarmingly in the past 3 or 4 years and i reckon just on pure Statistics alone you have 1 to 2 % chance at best of finding even just one that might make you a profit in the medium to longer term.

    There is also the issue of whether YOU are suited to the opportunity or not. Certainly not everyone is is suited to every opportunity, the issues of Temperament, Attitude, Time available, Drive, Intelligence and Experience and not least Psychological make – up. Previously having helped run Business start – up courses and one to one advice, this is something i became increasingly aware of, and many folk stating off blind themselves to it. Although i realise this one is not a Forex one, Forex is a classic example of something a great many folks shouldn’t really be let anywhere near to ! You could give 10 people a brand new Forex Product and they might well get 10 different sets of results.

    At £375 that is the risk you are weighing up – its very close to the UK average weekly wage. To a minority of folk that’s not a lot and worth a Punt, but to the majority, especially in the North, where i am, its a chunky price. It says there’s a money back guarantee but i guess you need to check the terms of that, and not least how much money you need to actually ‘work the method’!

    Buying decisions are always personal ones but we all need to remember that John Harrison and Nick Laight and other Publishers /Vendors have made their millions with their general Businesses and not least their immense ‘copy- writing’ skills. None of them have made it from any single Product they have marketed themselves!

    The reason a good few people consider the Products and then go on to purchase is in the hope that this might just be THE one to make them their illusive pile – hence the copy-writing skills in leading you towards such temptation.

    Indicative of just how much more the whole Market place has become tough in these recessionary times has been the inclination for some Vendors to come on MMR and attempt to defend their Products. Years ago they wouldn’t have needed to bother! Sometimes they answer Questions, other times they are evasive. I’m not sure if John Harrison has in the past, but of course its always their choice!

    As a very general comment, rather than point specifically at Streetwise, for most of us regulars this Site is probably THE NUMBER 1 for helping ordinary folk to improve their buying decisions, and to become generally more ‘savvy’ when it comes to spending their money. Long may that continue and for anyone who is going to give this product a whirl, then i wish you well!

  9. Robs D says:

    Yes, had this mailshot today, did purchase a gambling system from th em years ago, it worked well for about 10 weeks, then that was it,

  10. John.A says:

    A brilliant comment, JohnU – John Harrison himself couldn’t have said it better!

  11. bowler says:

    It seems that we’re becoming quite a community – Streetwise have been busy sending out the marketing for this system. Got my flyer today as well. I always feel that it is a shame that ill (or indeed un) informed chums on this board have to dismiss totally out of hand anything that comes from the Streetwise factory on the basis that it just simply cannot be a worthwhile opportunity because Streewise Publications are marketing it. That is absolute rubbish. It’s a lot like not wishing to see a hugely enjoyable movie because ‘I’ve never seen a decent film in whatever cinema it is showing’.

    I’ve been looking at literature peddled by Streetwise for the best part of 30 years and of course I have looked at a right load of old tosh along the way. But they do not always market dross. I have been grateful to them for introducing me to a couple of goodies from which I am still benefiting.

    Regarding the latest mystery I am inclined to side with LizzyG in her guess that we are dealing with the DAX and binary trading in particular in which case bring it on say I. Binary trading is high speed trading and a hugely enjoyable past time which can be profitable without breaking even the modest of banks.

    Of course, we may be wrong and its got absolutely nothing to do with binary trading!

    But I’m going to go for it. I had a very successful weekend trading football matches and about £600 up so my £375 will be coming from this little ‘bank’.

  12. Eaglewoman says:

    Agree with the latter few comments. Streetwise has ALWAYS refunded my money. Without quibble, with a ‘thank you for trying us’ letter and always with a voucher. Obviously to spend on one or other of their products. But nevertheless they have always been courteous to me.
    On the subject of their products ….. weeeelll like others have also said they are variable and often expensive.
    However the copywriting is always good and tempting. But this is somewhat rich for me considering I still don’t know what it is.

    So bowler I look forward to hearing what you think about it. Oh, and congrats on your recent successes there 😉

  13. soccanut says:

    Got the flyer as well. Have asked a couple of ?s – wonder if they’ll reply? They might as I’ve bought from them before – but will they (as many do) reply in such a way as to leave me as much in the dark as I was before I asked? Watch this space!

    Well done to Bowler for taking the plunge – I only nearly did!

  14. EDWARDS359 says:

    I must of had a certain amount of luck with streetwise,as I’ve done quite well with a couple of their products. I made/make a good few bob from the landlord letting deal for one. I concur with the previous shot though-The standard of ”ops” is poor now. In ALL recessions this imbalance occurs,just as the bookies seem to do considerably better also. As alluded to earlier,though,one must give the OP at least 100% before an appraisal can be warranted. I am a Forex trader and know something of this,as Forex must be one of the most abused targets on the planet.’ Ïts too dear I can’t afford it’ or Íts too cheap,It can’t be any value’ Somewhere in the middle then? Most of it is garbage,and growing. Decide-Plan-Execute (or forget it all)

  15. tom42 says:

    So you go to website a and get a number.

    Then you go to website b and get another number.

    You do your sums and if there is a bet you put it on with website b.

    What happens if website b goes kaput, is there an alternative?

  16. Mannilat says:

    Well. I am waiting to see who will ell the cat.Let’s wait and see when someone gives a good report about it.

  17. JohnU says:


    ? that sounds a bit like one of those old Scottish sayings? ‘who will ell the cat Jimmy’.

    Would you care to turn it in to English for us? 🙂

  18. JayJay68 says:

    Got my mailshot today and agree with most of the comments so far. One question I,d like ask Streetwise is about the 30 day guarantee. If this is binary betting on the Dax as I suspect, the markets will be closed over the Christmas holiday, so about a quarter of the guarantee period will be useless. Is this clever timing of release or silly? Still tempted though!!

  19. dave5371 says:

    If it sounds to good to be true it usually is? Also if I had a system making me £200 a day why would I bother sharing it with complete strangers?

  20. Mannilat says:

    Sorry for the omission from my key board. It should read who will ” BELL THE CAT”. Now you get it?

  21. scorpioeyes says:

    dave you have hit the nail on the head.

  22. alexis986 says:

    I wish some of you guys who have had systems from Streetwise that work would share it with us. WHICH ARE THE ONES THAT WORK???

  23. planner says:

    Talkinig about Cats … lets put them amongst the pigeons !

    Binary betting is gambling that can be used as an alternative to regular day trading. Binary betting is a form of fixed odds betting, where there are only two possible outcomes (winning or losing), and the maximum possible profit and loss are known in advance.

    One of the disadvantages is binary betting is gambling, it is offered by bookmakers (instead of day trading brokerages), and it is not subject to any of the usual trading regulations. This means that binary betting can be subject to price fixing (bid and ask prices that are different from the exchange), and bookmakers may trade against their clients to take profit for themselves.

    Everytime we loose someone else is gaining !!

  24. EDWARDS359 says:

    Talking about trading;
    Day trading is a zero-sum activity(Circa 5trillion in and 5trillion out in one dollar day). Rationally we only need to ‘ride’with the winners and we’re up! Dive in with both feet and you can blow an account out very quickly. Patience is massive in financial trading,especially Foreign Exchange. Look at Jason Stapleton’s weekly outlook on youtube and see if it is for you! The 50plusers seem to win the day generally because they tend to be blessed with patience. Do not throw thousands at trading as there is no need. There are so many cd’s,dvd’s and so on out there and they are worthless (esp.US stuff). Bedtime trader is another good system and all the work is done for you by the writer!!! If you are well-heeled Vince Stanzione is the Best. LEARN the basics slowly,paper trade for 3months and you can work from home TAX-FREE. Tell your mates you are a Currency Dealer if thats your bag,and the rest is easy. A base bank of 10k is good but you can start for less. This needs 100% committment at onset,but ‘tiny acorns’. Another freeby is at ProAct traders in Texas. I know a man that only trades season highs or lows,and drags in a fortune. Or we can all wait and live off pensions?

  25. simba says:

    Got the system yesterday – it is the KrautGap system by John Piper relabelled as A minus B. The KrautGap system has been reviewed in this page –

    Gap trading is not for me so will be returning it and asking for a refund

    ps. interestingly going directly to KrautGap is £247 for the system, whereas Streetwise are charging £375. Having said that Streetwise are offering their 30 day guarantee and you get the entire system, whereas from the KrautGap reviews it seems that the direct offer only offers part of the system before the guarantee period runs out.

  26. wilkie says:

    I have received the flyer today. Looks too good to be true doesn’t it? I’m tempted though. I’ll sleep on it!!

    Good luck to everyone…….!!

  27. tom42 says:

    Thanks for your post EDWARD

    Some comments, if I may –

    re- 5trillion – only if you are trading direct – if you are trading with a bookie, which most of these vendors advocate – the market is measured in the millions. Think what is going to happen when a thousand people all try to get the same bet on at the same time with the same bookie. Especially if it is a binary bet.

    A base bank of 10K – I would hazard a guess that a high percentage of MMR readers haven’t got 10K to treat as dead money that could possibly be lost and no harm done.

    100% commitment – this could also be a no go area for a lot of MMR readers.

  28. JohnU says:

    @EDWARD and @tom42

    Thanks – Some interesting comments and observations from you both!

    Interesting to see a comment on Vince Stanzione. A friend who lives a long distance from me was telling me just yesterday that he has been to Stanzione’s Seminars, has the books and is doing very well.In fact he’s delighted. However the friend is well – heeled and has been able to invest in himself and put in the very necessary investment into this!

    I know that Stanzione has had both good and bad comments from people but ,my friend – who has about 8 years experience as a Trader, highly recommends him.

    BUT, its really ‘horses for courses’. You certainly seem to need some sizeable investment for it and as tom42 points out that is not the ‘typical profile’ of a high number of MMR readers. Although it may sound a bit harsh i feel the comment regarding a lot of MMR readers not having 100% commmitment is also true. A lot of people do seem to want a ‘quick fix yesterday’.

    Thanks too for the earlier explanation on the phrase ‘Bell the Cat’. Have heard no end of cat sayings but must have missed that one in my lengthening life!

  29. Saxon2 says:

    Just done a little digging. The KrautGap system by John Piper states that the system was inspired by Mark Austin. Mark Austin lives on the island of Ko Samui, and John Piper holidays there. The Streetwise AB System is by David Houghton and he also lives in Ko Samui. Must be something in the water.

  30. Raymond Sharp says:

    Hi everyone, I too received this AB System from Streetwise today. Saxon 2 is it possible that this guy David Houghton was shown this system by John Piper/Mark Austin on their holiday hotel balcony in Ko Samui where the letter was written ???? and David decided to re-name it and remarket it to make some more extra money. Not an impossibility is it? Especially when the P.S. says 26 people paid £500 each to go to a seminar to learn all this stuff. Thers £13K for a start, nice little earner if you can get it.

  31. Raymond Sharp says:

    Sorry guys forgot to ask the question, is this a set and forget system or just a……. forget???????

  32. Saxon2 says:

    Maybe Simba would put us all out of our misery and explain what Gap Trading is.

    He obviously knows because he states it is not for him?

    Just the basic principles please. We wouldn’t want you to give the whole game away

  33. EDWARDS359 says:

    There are many stories of people entering the US that had no real understanding of the lingo,lifestyle or order. As an analogy lets say a Korean man. Given the states is a melting pot in any case,some of the barriers he may meet in the UK for instance,were absent. Yet this man went on to become a millionaire!!
    My point is, that if the only avenue open to you is financial trading you would need to become very accomplished,very rapidly,or die! A little dramatic I hear you say but to some Koreans maybe not.
    We must choose our course and maintain it. Too many of us are milksopped from cradle to grave.
    Cut your own groove and enjoy the ride,then you know it is worth it. Life’s hard-but when we know this,the rest is Easy.

  34. madhatter says:

    you can find out about trading the gap or gap trading just by looking it up on Google.
    It is not a secret. It is well known.
    It is also a pure gamble to trade the gap.
    You are betting that the gap is filled.
    It can be. There again it might not be. Hence the gamble.


  35. JohnU says:

    @ madhatter.

    So it sounds like its not much more sophisticated than the famous ‘toss of a coin’?

    Perhaps the most telling word in the Vendor’s ‘Headline’ is ‘COULD’. I wonder what percentage of Vendor’s headlines use ‘Could’ as opposed to ‘Will’?

  36. Saxon2 says:

    OK. Let’s see if we can make some sense out of this. A market closes for a particular instrument, and while it is closed pressure builds up either on the buy side or on the sell side. When the market opens the price either GAPS up, or GAPS down.

    In many instances the price moves back to where it was the previous day and the Gap has been closed. The timing on this could be seconds, or minutes, or tens of minutes. Placing a stop order with a spread betting company to catch the falling or rising price would do the trick, but a lot would depend on how big the gap was, what the general trend in that particular instrument was etc,etc. Don’t forget — it is possible for a price to Gap up, fall back to trigger a stop order and then start to climb again. It is all a gamble.

    Why the DAX? Does this Gap on a regular basis?

  37. captainjack says:

    I’m intrigued by the P.S. on the flyer. Firstly, I’d like to know where the seminar was held and why it wasn’t generally advertised (unless I missed it!). Secondly, the DVDs. If Streetwise are giving them away, why do we need to pay £375.00?

  38. DazBlade says:

    What the!?!? – A Minus B system and Krautgap system are apparently the same system but with different prices and sold differently. However, for a laugh, why not go and take a look at their respective sales pages…

    The creator of the Krautgap system, John Piper, states this on his web site ( “Right now, for example, I’m enjoying an extended 6-week break on the beautiful island of Ko Samui in Thailand.”

    Interesting that because the creator of the A Minus B system, David Houghton, states this on his “Streetwise” web site ( “I hang out in Thailand for the cold UK winter months and I’m writing this letter from the beautiful island of Ko Samui.”

    So, did they both create the same system unbeknown to each other? – Are they one and the same person? – Are they friends who holiday together in Thailand and decided to release the same system under a different name?

    I have respect for Streetwise but this set the Alarm bells ringing louder than a very loud thing and seems a bit dodgy… or perhaps I’m just reading too much into it and there is an “innocent” explanation.

  39. jackdiddle says:

    Hi Edwards359,

    Where can I read more about trading the Seasons Highs and Lows please ? I tried Googling it but it came up with nothing.



  40. Hector says:

    I love this site..a system surfaces and ‘God Bless ’em all..the members turn those stones over and find the truth. Good or bad it will come to the surface.


    The strongest systems will survive and the crap will be shown up for what it is; the weakest seekers for fair play will be protected from the Sharks that seek to devour them. thank goodness for the smart people that find them out.

    Great site, well done.


  41. EDWARDS359 says:

    Hello JD, try ( or youtube Jason Stapleton (FMP). I would certainly take a free fortnight with ProAct also. As the markets move on Sentiment rather than anything else,barring Fundamental news of course,their movement can seem chaotic. Youtube can give you a very good insight but keep an open mind. I learnt from Gary Albrecht partly. It really is a bit by bit education unless you are unique! Akil Stokes does a trade class for t2t which is informative and he is live trading,albeit from 1300hrs UK time. Papertrade free with IGindex. Try some Top Dog trading if you can handle a west coast accent from Barry Burns. I have nothing against Knowledge to Action other than Lack of value for money. You can learn as much from chasing around the net for free. If you can sit with a mentor-Happy Days,if not work at it and maybe pay Jason Stapleton for a weekly course as they are cost effective generally. Never give up,ever.

  42. bowler says:

    Got to agree with Hector about the benefits of looking in on this site. Very grateful specifically for the expertise, debate and knowledge on display on this particular thread. As is the case on just about every thread on the site there are a few posting in what I call ‘cliche corner’ who seemingly have nothing else to contribute other that generic yawn inducing stuff such as ‘Well, if you were making this much money why would you want to sell it’ or ‘I always say if it sounds too good to be true then it generally is’. All may be true but contribute to the specific debate guys.

    Still waiting for my parcel from Streewise. Excitedly went to bed at 7.00 last night to make today come quicker in case it arrived. Still waiting!

  43. DazBlade says:

    Hi Bowler – good post, so you have ordered the A Minus B system from Streetwise? Hope you are able to share your results with us and perhaps your views on ease of use/results compared to the sales copy statements for the system. Any specific info you can contribute regarding the product would be greatly appreciated and LoL at your early night, I understand your excitement as I’m the same when I order a new gadget etc. lol.

  44. Netcash says:

    So 45 comments so far and not one from anyone who’s actually doing a review of this system – what a waste

  45. John.A says:

    Well, Netcash, the 46th comment was well worth reading – thank you so much for your contribution!

  46. bowler says:

    Yes, DazBlade I have ordered it as described in post number 11 in Netcash’s count. Will be happy to report back as much as I reasonably can when received and opened. As you can see by the clock, I’m up a bit later this eve as the excitement lessens every day of non receipt!

    Netcash, far from being ‘a waste’ I have benefited greatly from the knowledge passed on by chums on this thread as noted in my previous post. As for non appearance of an actual review, as far as I can tell the launch of this product was just this week and nobody has their parcel yet!

  47. bowler says:

    Ok, sorry. The launch was clearly in November but the first post on this thread was just a few days ago hence my confusion!

  48. rusty1 says:

    Well, I have bought this. As suggested, it is based on spread-betting the DAX, according to quite a simple premise but a fairly complex set of rules to decide when to bet and how to manage the trades. Certainly it is well written and presented and is clearly the result of quite a bit of work. That said though, I have paper-traded it this last week and,if I have interpreted it correctly, it would have resulted in four days of no bets, and a one day loss.
    I will monitor it a bit longer and then report back.

  49. rusty1 says:

    Sorry – the date of the recent comments confused me too.

  50. nimrod says:

    I received my copy through the post along with six hours of DVD to study.
    The system appears to be “sound” but only time would tell if it’s profitable because there are no previous performance figures claimed for it in the manual. It is well written but padded out a bit in the second half of the manual and the entry point for the trade is altered three times in the manual but to be fair, clearly stated eventually. Why he waited so long is a mystery!
    One is required to go on-line at 0800, 1000 and 1600 hours. The 0800 will indicate whether today is a “goer” and if so, then one has to check at the other times to make any necessary adjustments. It is possible to just do the 0800 and if it is a goer, let it run but then you are not abiding by the instructions.
    It is the KrautGap system by John Piper as claimed above (and he does identify himself in the manual) so one has the choice of returning the A minus B and getting their £375 returned and purchasing the KrautGap for £247 (although you won’t get all the course before the guarantee period has expired, as stated above, but if you have seen the A minus B, you can operate it). The other alternative is to return the manual and use the information but I am of the opinion that I don’t mind paying for something if it is going to work for me.
    Once again, Streetwise has mis-represented the product. It is impractical for me to tweak the system at 1000 and 1600 so I will return it. If Streetwise had made clear the requirements at the outset, I would not have sent for it.
    Sadly Streetwise is making greater and more wonderful claims for its products and this is the first one I have sent for in quite a while due to their fallacious claims but of course their marketing must be working because they’re still in business.

  51. bowler says:

    Received my parcel today. Have not had time to get to grips with it all but as Nimrod says it does appear to be based on solid principles but it would be impossible to make any comment as to its effectiveness until it has been tried and tested over a reasonable period. Again, as Nimrod points out, it is indeed the KrautGap system by John Piper – David Houghton is an alias – but the author is not trying to fool anyone. He does make clear from the outset the reasons for the subterfuge which I can understand and go along with.

    As has already been guessed on this thread, it is all about binary trading in a very narrow market (the understanding of complex formulas is in way a requirement) and, although I have by no means looked at the course content in anything other than a cursory manner it looks very clearly set out and extremely well presented. Have not yet looked at any of the DVDs.

    I’m going to surrender to it and looking forward to starting the study proper next week.

  52. DazBlade says:

    Thanks Nimrod and Bowler for your interesting posts and despite what Netcash states, there is barely any “waste” in this review or any of the other reviews – apart from the post by Netcash of course =;-) Anyway, I look forward to hearing of your views and results when you have had time to use the system regularly, perhaps after 30 days and/or maybe post some weekly updates if feasible. e.g. can it be done in 5-10 minutes as suggested on the A Minus B site?

    You’ve certainly eased my mind regarding the author. Are you able to expand further on “…the reasons for the subterfuge…”? I’m guessing some marketing ploy as they have different pricing, name and guarantee – I understand if not. Additionally, Nimrod mentions “One is required to go on-line at 0800, 1000 and 1600 hours” – does this mean if you are at work 9-1730 then it is not suitable? Is it available to trade after 1730? – the reason I ask is that some people don’t have internet access at their work or have limited web access so it may not be suitable for them.

  53. Morebooks says:
    I have now read the manual. I will not repeat what other posts have now revealed. Suffice it to say that John Piper used an alias so that people who may already know him as a trader, gambler, horse better, etc, would not make their purchase decision based on that knowledge rather than the actual A-B System. I have been happily going along working through the manual, registered for my ADVFN account to give me yesterday’s closing price of the DAX and then struck a hurdle with trying to create an account with IG Index to placed the bets. Apparently I do not have sufficient savings to qulaify to open an account. They will not tell me what level you need, but it is more than £750. I have emailed asking John Piper for a way forward and so am waiting his reply. Anyone know the savings level. I bought this system to make some extra money, but need the extra money to run it! Catch 22 all over again!

  54. nimrod says:

    Try Gekko – they have a Demo account of £100,000 for you to practice on!

  55. gail-shaw says:

    hi guys,

    noticed a comment saying most of the business opportunties nowadays are rubbish, and a decent one is few and far between. I don’t agree. We have a far wider choice now, and many of the scamsters are no longer in business because of the costs so I hear, and it’s easier to chase companies up now.

    As for opportunities, they are what you make them. I hea rpeople saying ebay is rubbish, etc, but there are thousands in the world making livings from it, many of whom have bought an ebay course for £50-£100. I for one done this and made a good bit on the side of my job, but I got bored with it to be honest, but in reality, if I had the interest, I could easily have chucked my job and gave it a good go as a full time business.

    Same with all the other opportunties, someone is making money doing them, the problem is most of us look at it and say “nah, not for me” because it is not the holy grail, but the holy grail does not exist, believe me, I must have spent £15k on business ideas from loads of different companies, and in all honesty, 80% were all workable, “if” I had given them a go, but we don’t, we just dismiss most things.

    I have been using quite a few biz opps and do okay with them, not enouoght to leave my job, but then, none of them excite me enough to comit my full time to them, but one day, I hope I find something.

    So, every biz opp is being used by someone to make money with, probably hundreds if not thousands of people will be using the methods most of us discard, it really is down to the individual.

    So never give up guys, there;s something out there if YOU want to put 100% into it and you have an interest in it.

    big gail

  56. Maynard says:

    Top post, Gail.

  57. EDWARDS359 says:

    Just a nod to GKFX and Finspreads
    as a small,starter spread company. I believe 10 pence or less is acceptable,unless they’ve altered their criteria.Good Luck to All.

  58. Annicx says:

    I bought the KrautGap course which apparently is this system by a different name, although reading through the above comments there seems to be one or two slight differences- I monitor any open trades around 11am for instance.

    I decided to post here as I noticed a couple of requests from members for reviews from anyone actually using the system, but also to answer the comment about gap trading being a mere ‘toss of the coin’ as this could lead to members avoiding this for the wrong reasons.

    I have studied gap trading for a couple of years and there is far more to it than simply tossing a coin- you could make the same observation about any trading method if you were so minded. When done properly it can be a low-risk, high probability way to trade the FTSE, (or Dax in this case). There are a number of factors to take into account every morning before a trade is entered and if the risk is too great there is no trade- sometimes it can be 3-4 days between trades but this is surely better than trading for the sake of it. It is by far the most profitable way to trade I have ever found since I started 12 years ago. Anyone interested in this should contact Mark Austin- I’m sure he would be able to provide enough info for you to make an informed dicision about this. For the sake of clarity I will point out that Mark works closely with John Piper. I trust them both and they are experts in their field- I woiuldn’t have used their services for as long as I have if they were not.

    Back to this system- I have copied below the report I posted on the KrautGap review page. Hope it is useful!

    I bought this course as I have been interested in gap trading for some time and I know a few people who trade the Dax with some success, preferring it to the FTSE. I have also read a few of John Piper’s books and he clearly knows what he is talking about and ‘walks the walk’, unlike most vendors it seems. I am currently reading through module 8 and am thoroughly enjoying it.

    The course is written with the complete beginner in mind so that anyone can use it to trade with. More experienced traders can skip bits- most people reading this will know what a candle is and skip this bit for example, but as John points out it does no one any harm to read through it all. Support has been first rate up to now. I have only had to email with queries a couple of times so far but have received prompt replies- indeed John makes it clear that he is there to help throughout the course and beyond. I take the point people have made about the trail period, but I think there is enough information in the first module to decide whether or not this is something you want to do. You know what you are going to be trading and when, but it’s true that you can’t trade it during the first month so maybe this is something that needs looking at. I had enough faith in John Piper’s abilities to stick with it, but if you’re completely new to trading and have never heard of him it is an issue.

    The course covers the basic KrautGap system, trading psychology, money management and advanced strategies- one of which can be used as a stand-alone system or as part of KrautGap. There is usually ‘homework’ at the end of each module, (nothing too strenuous!), the idea of this is to make sure you have understood it and prepare for the next part. It also makes you do something every day to keep things fresh in your mind. The whole thing is well written and presented in a nice, relaxed fashion. I have to say I prefer this approach to the more usual method of sending the whole course/ system at once as you always have the tendency to flip through looking for the good bits, or read a few chapters and put it down and forget about it- although that may be just me!

    The system usually trades early in the morning, though sometimes it can be in the afternoon. Either way you know straight away whether there is the possibility of a trade on any given day and if there is you can place market orders with stops and limits and use it as a ‘set and forget’ system. If you can monitor the trade occasionally during the day this can be an advantage but is not essential. That said most brokers have android apps and the like so it should be fairly easy for most people to do this if they want using their mobile phones.

    I have been trading the system on a demo account for just over a month with a view to going ‘live’ early next year if I am happy enough, although during one of the weeks I was unable to trade due to a family illness. To date I have traded 15 times with 12 winners and 3 losers which is a slightly better ratio than the course suggests so I am quite pleased with my progress, although I am sure the losses will come. Indeed you are left in no doubt that as with any system there will be losers- sometimes maybe a string of them which is refreshingly honest. There should also be strings of winners of course! Things have been quiet over the past couple of weeks but this is probably due to the low volume at this time of year. I see no reason why this system should suddenly stop working, although I accept that it could of course. Gap trading is nothing new and the gaps will always be there to exploit.

    Does it offer value for money? I suppose that will depend how much profit it produces for me, but I don’t think it is particularly expensive- especially when you consider that there are systems out there costing 10 times as much that don’t seem to be producing anything outstanding. Well worth a try in my opinion!

  59. whiskyd says:

    some are sending this back ,i often think why dont we form a club and pool resources to purchase certain courses and share the cost.The ammount of systems ive got i think ill start up system swop shop u never know could take off

  60. captainjack says:

    Just a comment about that dreaded three-letter word TAX. Nearly every spread-betting, binary-betting and gambling system I’ve come across trumpets the benefits of TAX-FREE income. Its true to say that all such winnings are free of capital gains tax. However, if anyone earns their main income from any of the above, they WILL have to pay income tax on it. This is something that none of the purveyors of systems EVER make clear.

  61. Maynard says:

    captainjack, even if you make your main income from betting, there is no tax to pay. The reason is that losses (i.e. losing bets) would have to be allowable against tax. That in turn would mean that a self-employed person making a decent income from one business could claim that betting was his even bigger business. He could then scour betting shops for losing slips, claim these as major losses against a few ficticious winners, and claim a big overall tax write-down.

  62. thezealot says:

    I do a bit of sports arbitrage and as far as I am aware the proceeds from betting are not free of tax (income tax or capital gains) if it is your main source of income. However, this is easily worked round, if you don’t have an actual job, by creating some kind of small business.

  63. JohnU says:

    @ all 3 of above. By all means check it but i am certain that Maynard is right – and for the very good reasons stated. It is GAMBLING – period, and not therefore taxable. Good job really or i feel George Gideon (Cheap Rail Fares)Osborn would soon have his snout in there. By all means ring an Accountant or the Inland Revenue but i am completely certain you are wasting your time!

  64. zagger says:

    The Tax question interests me too.
    I currently work as a free-lance Structural Engineer in the Construction industry, 2/3 days a week.
    The remainder of my time I operate as day trader in Spread-betting.
    The income from trading is now exceeding my normal work income, and my aim eventually is to trade full-time.
    With this in mind, I asked my Accountant what the tax situation would be in such a case.
    He said that,although he had no direct experience of S.B,his view was that, if my sole income derived from S.B the Inland Revenue would find a way to asses that income for tax.
    On the plus side, any losses could be offset against tax due.
    I suggested that I might raise the question with the said body.
    To which, he pursed his lips, leant back in his chair, and said,thoughtfully, “You could, but you might be opening a can of worms”
    We parted company with those words ringing in my ears.

  65. JohnU says:

    @ i am NOT an Accountant but i have a feeling he is being ultra-cautious there! I have NEVER EVER heard of anyone who has ever been taxed in the UK on gambling (Since they scrapped the Tax paid on in bookies Shops).

    If it were true can you imagine the number of Publishers who will now be having kittens over their ‘bog standard’ statement in all those lovely Sales Letters where they say ‘All your Profits are tax Free’.

    Just Googled the following, and i feel it will allay most peoples fears;

  66. Maynard says:

    JohnU, thanks very much for posting your tax link, it does make everything very clear.

  67. ritch0001 says:

    I would also like to add my thanks to this wonderful website. You get a mailshot through the door and low and behold you come on here and can read all about it. I won’t say how long I have been looking at other making ideas …I will just say I didn’t bother selling Karaoke machines when they first appeared over here because I didnt think they would catch on….lol

  68. zagger says:

    Thanks for that link, does help to clarify the situation.
    Accountants are cautious by nature I guess, and to be fair to mine, I did spring the question on him.

  69. Peter2 says:

    With apologies to the Accountancy Profession I can never get out of my mind the comment in the Monty Python sketch when an chap is asked what he does and replies “I’m an accountant and consequently too boring to be of interest”. Mind you I was also told the definition of an Actuary is someone who found accountancy too exciting so perhaps not all is lost. 🙂

  70. don555 says:

    Can anyone here point me in the direction of anything that makes consistent money.
    The reason I ask is that I am 64 years of age on an interest only mortgage of £100.000 that has to be paid in the next 6years or I will be in danger of losing my property if it is not paid or I find myself in the scenario of being unable to sell my property.
    I took the loan out 8 years ago but due to unforseen health problems I am unable to do any physical work.
    I like to think of myself being mentally okay for my age (but no mastermind)
    I would be very grateful for any info that I could use to my advantage.
    Thanks in advance to all the decent people that could maybe help

  71. neilwaterton says:

    I have been working on a system for about 12 months, with uncanny results. I have paper proofed these and hardly ever seem to lose at least on paper. I have always bottled at launching it or fully using it, but would like another set of eyes to look over it with a sceptical viewpoint who is not connected to the industry.. Needs a few betfair accounts working together to maybe work better, but having only recently retired so only now have more time to explore possibilities.

  72. gedd says:

    hi don555

    In your situation I would stay away from anything to do with the gambling side of things with all its ups and downs. Not to good on the ol ticker and that. You should go down the business route.

    Have you had a look at the Chris Farrell membership site that was reviewed on here not many moons ago? It has a lot of positive feedback on the internet.

    Good luck

  73. maxreturns says:

    Don – do Bonus Bagging.

  74. musketeer says:

    Hi don555,
    I would also recommend bonus bagging.

    I have enjoyed using it and am about £260 in profit so far. The cost is small and Mike is very helpful.

    You need to understand backing and laying and be
    comfortable with that.

  75. scarbough says:

    Well said gail,i could not agree more,there is a lot out there which does work if you put your mind to it,DEC 11TH 2012,nice to see a few more positive mindsets around.

  76. esling says:

    Sounds interesting. I’m sure there’s members on here who would be happy to review your system with you. I’m no betting expert so probably not the best person, but what type of system is it? Horses, football, backing/laying/arbing? If you can explain a bit without giving too much away someone may be able to help.

  77. gail-shaw says:

    Just a quick point on tax for gambling, I have heard from a good source, and, I have no reason to doubt him, as the government are doing everything they can to increases taxes, that if your main income is made from gambling, then it is taxable.

    The inland revenue are spending £77 million setting up a new part of their organization to specifically get more tax from people, so if someone never worked, and was ploughing £30k a year into their bank from the bookies, then I’m certain the tax would take a cut of that, they tax us on everything else don’t they!

    People who work for a living, and make £22k plus a year, pay their mortgage and council tax, and everything else, and are left up with nothing.

    Those on £16k or less, get tax credits, free child care, discounted council tax, and every other top up you can think of, they end up with more money than those working hard all their lives.

    Even when the good people save up for a rainy day, and say had £5k saved up, if they were made redundant, then they would not be entitled to anything from the government bacause they “have” savings, yet these same people are the ones paying into the system all their lives to cover all the others, whilst these others are just scroungers their whole lives.

    This country is a disaster, to say the poor are the worst off is a joke, they get everything for free, even those who don’t work, if there kids start school, they get free uniforms, whilst those in work have to pay £100 for thiers, sometimes more.

    Who’s laughing at the end of the day, it’s certainly not those who have worked all their life and never claimed a penny from the government.

    Rant over!

    big gail

  78. Bear1 says:

    Blimey, I’m more confused than ever.

    I have always assumed that profits gleaned from betting, professionally done or otherwise was tax free and have never given it a second thought.

    I’m no tax expert but I find it difficult to understand how it is possible to be taxed on earnings from betting because of the potential to also claim for losses.

  79. Tim Lowe says:

    @ Bear1

    We had advice on this from a tax lawyer and a former Judge who sat in the specilised tax court and it comes down to whether or not the proceeds of gambling are your main income. So long as you have some other income to live on then the question doesn’t even arise but as soon as you are mainly living off betting then you have an issue.

    If you are making enough to give up working then the best bet (oops, unintentional) is to keep working a bit longer, save your winnings and buy some investment property or something similar with those winnings that will provide a stable income as your ‘main income’. That way you never have to even deal with questions about how you support yourself etc.

    I’m not a tax expert but hope this helps.

    Tim Lowe.

  80. Bear1 says:

    Thanks for your reply, Tim.

    Most of that makes sense to me and after all, the former judge should know.

    That said, phrases such as “some other income” and “mainly living off” are grey areas and could be interpreted differently….couldn’t they?

    Still, slightly confused……

  81. zagger says:

    Ref my post of 3rd Jan, these comments seem to confirm my Accountant’s thoughts on the tax situation.

  82. mrbojangles says:


    I can fully understand what you are going through, I devised an excellent laying system which took me 3 years. All under at odds under 4.0. It worked so well it scared me, so I launched it with real money and it bombed. It did not bomb according to my system rules – it bombed due to my lack of patience and discipline !

    you have to smile otherwise you would cry lol

  83. nathan01 says:

    There used to be a tax on betting, of course. You could choose to pay tax on your stake or from your winnings. This was abolished some years ago, but this would be a workable way to make punters pay tax on their betting activities.

    To be taxed on your winnings over the course of a year, though, would open up all sorts of possibilities. Perhaps there should be a tax on bingo or scratch card winnings, too!

    As long as your betting profits are taken as winnings and not earnings, there shouldn’t be a problem.

  84. Bear1 says:

    Ah, now it becomes clear. I’ll just claim that my earnings are winnings.

  85. mstreet says:

    Why on earth would anyone outside the 1% of people who do make money betting have to worry about tax since let face it, the brutal reality is that the vast majority of people looking to make an income from betting whether on FX or sports won’t achieve that aim. Another poster suggested that only 1% of so called business/betting opportunities are genuine and I would suggest that this is an optimistic estimate. The sad truth is if there are genuine opportunities to make money through betting or home businesses then the people who are doing them simply will not tell the rest of us what they are as they don’t want to ruin their golden egg by doing that!. They certainly would want to charge a lot more than a few hundred quid to share such hard won knowledge and of course if too many people get involved then the returns diminish following the immutable law of diminishing returns.

    I have my own methods of making money on football using Betfair but it is up and down and even in 20 years’ time I think that it is unlikely that I will be making anything approaching even half of an average salary so am highly unlikely to trouble the tax man with my ‘huge’ betting winnings!!. I hope that I am wrong and one or two things that I am considering will come off this year but am not optimistic at present.

    Finally if winnings are to be subject to tax then surely all the expenditure in previous years on trying out self derived/purchased systems/business opportunities should in the interest of fairness be tax deductible??. I rather think that any attempt to tax winnings would open up a right can of worms with virtually no net gain for the Exchequer!!.


  86. Chelseaboy says:


    The glass half-full man,it will be interesting to see your response to the above realistic comment.

  87. JohnU says:

    Here we go guys-
    I have copied this link to the Inland Robin (sorry Revenue) site. When you get the Site up if you click on the ‘previous page’ and the ‘next page’ in turn you will see several pages that relate to this whole issue!

    It all seems pretty interesting but i can bet that we will all have a lot more views on this before it gets done and dusted.

    I think personally that Nathan01 and Mstreet have made interesting points here.

    The REALITY, and i guess its a pity really, is that this will only affect a very tiny few people ever and i suspect almost no-one on MMR . Any Professional who has made his or her pile through Gambling/Betting of any kind, such that it’s their sole Income source is hardly likely to be coming on MMR either to check what opportunities are about, or to give any advice to us lot! 🙂

    Having been self-employed for 12 years of a long working life some good advice i got from my first Accountant was ‘Lets cross that bridge when we get there’. I live in hopes but for most of us i suspect its several bridges to far to ever need to worry about this!

    What i find so utterly laughable by comparison, is the Recent news relating to certain Companies’ Tax situations – most of who i feel sure many of us on here are using regularly, Amazon and Google and others spring immediately to mind, are ‘having a ball’ at everyones’ expense (cant remember which – but 1 of them has paid just 0.25 %) through ‘Avoidance’. For the record i am not saying any are acting illegally.

    ‘Pit the Younger’ has much to answer to when he introduced Income Tax as a Temporary measure in 1799. Osborn and his cronies must be delighted that it was never repealed!

  88. ritch0001 says:

    I have been devising Horse Racing Systems for over 30 years – always expect the unexpected. One system I produced for myself in the 1990s produced 29 winners on the trot (pardon the pun)a lot were odds on nevertheless I thought I had cracked it…..and what happened next it selected 22 losers and wiped away the profit!!!

  89. neilwaterton says:

    I would like to thank all those kind folk who emailed me and offered to look over the method I mentioned in my post last week, when replying to don555. A few have pointed out that I should have an anti-disclosure clause put into any agreement I may set up with anybody.
    Great idea and one I would not have thought of,and goes to proove that this site is tops for fair minded, ordinary people helping fellow punters in their quest for a grail of the holy sort! This thing in my head stands any scrutinty, and I often go to the free timeform site and paper proof a whole meeting in minutes. The last 3 days of meetings have given me
    losses on 2 races, and all the other races winning lots of (virtual) money. The losses where huge when they happened (there was a 55/1 winner I remember), but the wins in total were always way above the loss. Spreading the risk between well connected trusted partners, and mitigating a developing major loss in play would be a back stop,
    but its too simple in its purist form to go on any more about it.There are lots of tweaks involved and dutching prices etc but suffice to say ‘Lay the field @ £10 each @ SP. When 10 horses run, 9 losers pay you £90. If the winner wins at 8/1 or under,you pay them out of all the losers pot. Hence profit. When the favourite wins you pocket a tenner off each loser and pay the winner under a tenner if its odds on, as usually is.
    Worst case scenario from the other day 12 ran, 11 losers paid £110, winner @ 55/1 got £550. Good Luck to all of you. And again thanks. neilwaterton

  90. dave5371 says:

    Thanks to everyone who posted , together we can do it!

  91. don555 says:

    dave I would agree but without proof of any proven system it is only hypothetical.

    I just hope that neils partners or associates report back with amazing results

  92. bert1967 says:

    has anyone tried the A minus B system if so what do you think to it

  93. hawks33 says:

    Hi DON 555,try Betshare Racing there is a members fee to pay,you get3/4 systems for FREE each month plus systems to buy,a refund is offered,ALL
    systems are vetted by owners and only offered if they are making money.You see first then buy,your choice,
    Good Luck,I too am a pensioner,Frank H.

  94. bert1967 says:

    i was just wondering if anyone out there with any comments about the a minus b system and if anyone has tried it out and what results they have had as im thinking about getting it

  95. JohnU says:


    Before you reach a buying decision can i suggest you look through all 96 comments on here!

    Can you find any who confirm that they have achieved what it claims you COULD in the headline from the Review above?

    “This Amazing ‘A Minus B’ Gambling System Could Make You An Easy £200 A Day In Under Five Minutes!”

    Frankly i would keep your money in your pocket.
    I am currently practicing Trading with ‘1on1 Forex’ by Larry Palmer. It is a tiny fraction of the price of this,(cost me about £20 i think) the Guy’s customer Service is superb, he Trades himself, he answers all Questions you email him and his methods are all simple to understand (as long as you know/learn the basics of Forex) and they follow ‘Price Action’, rather than the typical multi-chart approaches that look like wiring diagrams!

    I am in profit so far, albeit only with ‘practice Trading’. Having looked at dozens and dozens of Forex/Financial products over the past couple of years this one, along with Julie Hatch’s PATe are the only ones i would give any praise for!

    Rightly or wrongly Streetwise reputation has generally plummeted in recent years. The decision of course is yours!

    Hope this helps.

  96. barolo42 says:

    You say you have tried many of the Forex etc, products
    out there. Just wondering if you have an opinion of
    ‘markets Mastered ‘ system. He seems to have been going
    for a number of years,and has a lot of positive testimonials. Fairly cheap too. However he does’nt seem to have a lot of followers on MMR. Must be a reason.
    By the way , always enjoy your useful and informative comments as a contribution to the great debate about what makes money (or does’nt ! )

  97. bert1967 says:

    many thanks john for your advise i will have a look at 1on1 forex

  98. rusty1 says:

    Following on from my previous comments: I sent mine back after a couple of weeks, having concluded it was not going to deliver.

  99. davemoney says:


    Do you trade full time John? I would love to do it but im finding it very hard to first of all learn the proper methods, and i dont know if it is possible to trade full time anyway. I follow Pate and its good, but it still takes alot of experience to be able to do it well.

  100. JohnU says:


    Re ‘Markets mastered’.

    You will see on that thread that i made quite a few Comments, but that’s going back a couple of years now and to be frank i did ‘paper trade’ it for a while but couldn’t get on with it. The main issue was the ‘divergence’ part which i found confusing and inconsistent! I didnt ask for a Refund because i never actually traded with real dosh.

    On the face of it Nick seems a straight forward guy but although i didn’t find it myself, i am aware of a few folk around who felt that some of his claims for past trades didnt agree with what they tried! However you will see from the thread that one guy states he didn’t have a single loser when paper trading the TWTDJ (Trade with the Day job), you might care to try and message him via the MMR office and see if he’s gone beyond that!


    No i don’t trade full – time Dave.

    There are people who trade Full-time, but not many and certainly most are probably unlikely to frequent this Site.


    What you need to understand is that the ‘Psychological’ part of it is 80 to 90% the reason why people (and precious few at that) succeed at it!
    I still have not fully mastered the Psychology part and i have been working at Forex on and off for 4 years! The reason i keep persevering – and currently only with Demo Trading is that i want to be able to Trade successfully.

    Hopefully you will have read through Julie’s excellent info on Psychology on her site – i suggest you read it at least 5 to 1o times.

    It is the reason why some people are successful with a Method, whilst others – even though using the same Method/system – don’t succeed. They even appear to be applying exactly the same rules but in fact are not! Its all Psychology!

    As i said on the 16 th January, i am currently practice trading Larry Palmer’s 1on1 Forex which i personally love for the reasons i stated above, BUT not everyone will take the same Trades so its not the case that everyone will succeed with it!

    To be honest, knowing generally what i know now, i would advise people to start with Betting or general Business Opportunities rather than Forex.

    If you read Scarboughs posts he has often explained the approach he has which is to have a ‘portfolio’ of different ‘money makers’ running alongside each other, including methods he has devised and tweaked himself. I feel that’s an excellent – ‘small pots of eggs, and not all in the same basket’ so to speak!

  101. barolo42 says:


    Tks for reply re Markets Mastered. I think I will have a carefull look into it before taking any further.

  102. karrhino says:

    You said you devised a laying system for the pass 3years.
    Are you still doing it? I’m interested in laying system especially under 4 and if it works? would love to hear from you karrhino Thanks

  103. fredfish says:

    The people who make money from forex are the bankers as they have access to info that your average hopeful using technical analysis and such like can only dream of.
    Bankers – using this info – can trade virtully risk free. Have you ever heard of anyone making a fortune from stock or forex charts alone?
    But there is plenty of money to be made selling trading systems.
    Read “secrets of the street” (marcial) and “where are the customers’ yachts?” before embarking on your “trading career”!
    Enough written.

  104. moby says:

    first time writing here; just to say “Thank YOU” All! MoreMoneyReview and all the wonderful, selfless contributors of reviews. Please be aware, you all are doing a great job. Saving someone’s bread & butter money on some useless product is a very noble gesture.

    You guys and gals take your precious time to make us newbees aware or beware is highly commendable. I hope to be amoungst this esteemed community as a contributor one day.

    Thanks and God Bless!

    P.S. Like some of my friends here, I too am trying to find that “Magic Wand” which would help me pay off my mortgage, before it’s time for me to be off:-)!

  105. esling says:


    Fairly simplistic view if you don’t mind me saying. There’s plenty of ‘non-bankers’ making a living from trading price action on forex as well as commodities etc. Certainly don’t think it’s the exclusive domain of our delightful banker friends. The PATE thread on this site has many examples of people doing very well in the markets.

    Best wishes to all.

  106. scarbough says:

    Esling,great post,it appears that the world is caving in and nothing is of a workable nature to some…..indeed the rich will get richer, but ultimately if you get up in the morninng thinking that life is crap,and nothing works then you are going to be one of the 98% without even trying…

    The publishing world is a great industry, and i love it if im honest, because it brings me opportunities daily, and i dont have to go looking for them, what i did have to do is train my mind not to system hop and finish with one potential concept before a purchased another…….

    There are a hell of a lot of scamsters out there, but please be aware of the opportunities that are also out there.Nobody will put it into your lap and thats a fact, and as we see daily on here people will get very different results using the same systems, and im firmly convinced that thats the mind set up from the beginning, as well as the ability side of betting/trading.

    But if you honestly believe that in the main nothing works and thats your views, then its not for you, and you will almost certainly fail at whatever you trade.

    you simply cannot progress with a negative mindset towards this industry…..

    Systems that work such as LTD,….Half time ltd,… a basic enough system, and it does still work,some will always use it, some say its crap?

    goal profits made a good enough profit with that one technique last year,so to all that think its all a con, and a big sales pitch,your probably best to stick to your day job and be positive in that area.This is a tough game, but its certainly doable, if thats what you choose.

  107. scarbough says:

    There is also another issue that is common place in the industry and i feel its important to address it,if you have done your research in the first instance,you will know what the refund policies are.What you have to do is log results, log trades,so if things do not go your way and a system is flawed you can PROVE it to the vendor, and this is something that people appear not to be doing.

    Simply purchasing a system ,reading it, not liking the method, and not trialing it in any way is not a reason for any vendor to refund you…..They also have there rights to protect against illegal fraudulent strategies.If you abide by the rules then yes you have a case, and thats the way to go.

    There are top services and vendors, and systems that are still being used 10 years on from creation,if at the end of 20/30/40 years of searching systems, you find nothing is working, then that is probably down to your own mindset….And your ability to be honest.

    Be positive,it will take you forward…..

  108. jat280457 says:

    I am fairly new to trading. Haven’t tried forex yet, chose binary because of its apparent simplicity. But the only thing that is simple about it is how to lose a pile of cash very quickly if you are not careful.

    I initially started taking advice from a “professional” who was worse than useless as I lost more than I gained. Decided in the end to put my live account on hold and started collected various indicators to test on my demo account. 6 months later found a collection of indicators that were giving the signals I needed. Great! only problem was that to make it really profitable I needed a bespoke indicator.

    To cut a long story short, I hired an MT4 developer to create such an indicator and am now testing its accuracy. So far it is looking pretty good and providing you take the position of all the indicators in to account and don’t overrun on the expiry time, a 90% success rate is possible but it is early days yet and further testing should hopefully confirm this.

    The moral of the story is that apart from the indicator that I commissioned, the rest were all free. You can pick up free systems, ebooks, indicators and anything else you need for forex or binary by joining . ~A great free resource site for stuff you would normally be charged a small fortune for.

  109. karrhino says:

    @Scarbough, love it and its all true what you said..discipline is one of the main issue for many others including my self. Since I’ve been on to this site it has saved me loads of time in trying out different scams or systems. From this particular A minus B comments I also found something I like and started working on it Bonus Bagging, really good! hope all you guys find something you like and prosper from it!

  110. Bear1 says:


    With regards to your post January 26, 2013 at 7:31 pm

    I understand what you mean. However, as with anything in life, some things are not always that straight forward.

    For me, the primary motivation to keep records is to enable me to evaluate what I’m doing and this helps me to tweak and adjust.

    Another reason I keep records is to reassure myself when the system goes through a bad patch. By referring to my records, I can see that losing spells are normal and that if I persevere, I will profit in the end; this is assuming that the product has been proven to work in the long term, of course.

    If however, we keep records (or logs) to enable us to receive a refund from a vendor, should things not work out, then this is a completely different kettle of fish.

    If the product is a SYSTEM, then record keeping is possible.

    If the product is a METHOD, then record keeping is NOT possible.

    I would define a System as a product that instructs the user about what to do with the application of specific rules. System users are NOT required to exercise judgement.

    I would define a Method as a product that provides the user with broad concepts that need to be understood and applied. Method users ARE required to exercise their judgement within the confines of these less specific and broader parameters.

    Clearly, METHOD users will not be able to request refunds based entirely on log evidence because it will not be possible to produce log evidence.

    I suggest that potential purchasers need to be aware of this before they part with their hard earned. In return, vendors have a moral responsibility to make such matters clear in their sales copy and the conditions that pertain to the guarantee.

    Just food for thought.


    An excellent, insightful post.

  111. jat280457 says:

    Thanks @Bear1. I get really annoyed at these people who peddle their so called systems for £’00s expecting us to take them at their word with no proof nor illustration and part with our hard earned cash. If the system is genuine and profitable then they should be more forthcoming with details of what it actually does.

    Thank heavens for this forum else more people would have been stung!

    Heck, we do our research when buying any goods – you’d want to know the ins and out of a TV or PC – you’d want to know what value you are getting for your money and this is no different. They are taking us for fools.

    There are plenty of excellent free tools out there from developers who are proud of their work and happy to share and none of them brag about spending months at a time in exotic places.

    My message to anyone reading this is you can learn the craft of your trade (or pastime) for free and do your homework, research and find a system that works for you and suits your style of trading and don’t waste your money on gimmicks and good copy writers who are experts at getting you to part with your money.

    A rule I stick to is not to pay for anything unless I know exactly what I am getting and if the vendor isn’t prepared to part with that information then I am even less inclined to part with my money.

    Rant over.

  112. Binzy123 says:

    so has anyone actually tried the a minus b system, and should i purchase it or not ?

    • bamber27 says:

      Yes I bought this system and returned it within the 30 days trial period. It is all about Gap trading on the DAX, and in 30 days there were only 3 opportunities to trade. I am a novice but it is simple to understand. On those 3 trading days (so hardly with the opportunity to make £200/day), the gap on one day was 50 points and on the others just 20 points. To make anything like £200/day you would on the latter 2 days would have had to bet £10/point. On this system your stop loss would have been set with a potential loss of £520. The losses exceeded any potential gain. The markets may have been flat on that particular month but trading was very slow. 5 mins/day or all day and you couldn’t have made more than £90 in one month trading at £1/point.

  113. JohnU says:

    @ Bizy123

    Over 100 comments and seemingly very few people actually using it! If you have read through you will find a few positive comments.

    As to your question ‘..should i buy it or not?’, is frankly one that no-one else can answer. The only person that can is of course yourself.

    Not sure if you are new to MMR but if you are can i suggest you spend a spare hour or two having a good look around, it’s the best Site of its kind there is and has the potential to save people a small fortune, and help them make their ‘buying decisions’!

  114. Binzy123 says:

    Okay, thanks, but im still not sure on whether it will make that 100-200 pound profit. It sounds to good to be true. What do you think?

  115. Binzy123 says:

    And if you dont think i should go for this do you have any suggestions that will make me profits of any kind.

  116. PeterFenton says:


    If you can get Jack to send me your email I can send you some analysis on your system


  117. Raymond Sharp says:

    Good morning all, It’s back in my mailbox, this time with a free calculator lol. Oh sorry The A to B System that is.

    This time it’s a one page intro to a website rather than nine pages to read. Don’t they go on, telling you nothing about what it’s about.

    Streetwise must be feeling the pinch aswell, just an observation but this 1page & calculator came in a brown envelope,much lighter that 9 pages to save on postage costs. Not a bad idea but nevertheless a noticeable difference in behaviour and tactics. The bulk of it is now on a website eg Enjoy the read if you’ve binned or shredded your last mailing.

  118. ActionMan says:

    Bought it, tested it with paper trading following the instructions exactly, and at the moment it’s showing no signs of making any money, in fact the (theoretical) betting bank is showing a loss. Certainly not even a sniff of the promised £200 each day. So if things don’t look up quite sharply it’ll have to go back. But I’ve no worries about Streetwise. On the occasions before that I’ve had to ask for a refund it always comes through no problem. So if you really want to know about it, buy it and test it for yourself. Maybe I’ve just hit a bad patch.

  119. Ludo says:

    Hi ActionMan

    I’ve read all the posts about this system and not many are happy with it – Gap trading can be very lucrative if done properly. Have you any further comments since you posted a week ago or are you returning it?

  120. Kettleborough says:

    I wonder if you are discussing the 5 Secrets course written by Jim Hunt. I pay Sreetwise monthly for each part which I think has ten in all. I am halfway through
    and not that impressed though maybe others have different thoughts and have made some money trading etc.
    Sorry to drop this in here if it doesn’t fit!

  121. JohnU says:


    Have you read this, even just a part review and frankly i wouldn’t touch it with anyone’s bargepole let alone my own!

  122. exreadingboy says:

    Hi guys

    Great to find this site and thanks for all the useful comments regarding various biz opps. I’ve tried quite a few over the years but not really found one for me, though there have been a couple of close shaves.

    To be honest, I think it’s probably been more my attitude than the fault of the systems!

    Anyway, was tempted by the A minus B system but think I’ll give that a miss for now and re-visit in the future.

    A couple of more specific observations from my experience…

    1) I have purchased a number of systems from Streetwise and must have returned about a half a dozen to them, within the stipulated period, and always rec’d a full refund. Usually back into my bank within about 7 working days.

    Having seen so many of John’s letters over the years, I know what they’re going to say before he does…I’m surprised some of the overused methods are still bearing fruit for him.

    2) I’ve been interested in FOREX for a wee while and have been slowly building up my knowledge. The best resource I have found (and it’s FREE) is

    I think it’s US based but it’s run by guys like us trying (and many succeeding) to make a reasonable living from currency trading. Some contributors are keen amateurs, others are clearly professionals. The contributions come in from all over the world – so it’s useful to get that view too.

    Sign up and they have a fantastic (and funny) school to learn all the key steps in the business. You get a very insightful daily e-mail AND (here’s the good part!) people put up share their systems, wins, losses, mechanics, methods, caveats, warnings, pairs, timings, the lot and are happy for you to try them, without charging!!! That’s the process I’m going through on Babypips at the moment.

    What you do seem to get are loads of attempts to sell you anything else via e-mail etc. However, while on the website, you do get pop up ads trying to flog you brokers etc but you can ignore ’em. I guess they have to monetize the site somehow!

    I’ve bought books and FOREX systems etc on the open market and none have proven as valuable a resource as Bpips!

    Take a look and make your own minds up. As I say it’s free to join. Be interested in your views.

    Best wishes


    PS: Just read this back and wanted to make clear I’m not associated with Babypips in any way, other than as a member. I’m not an affiliate or anything like that. I just find it a useful resource and the equal of anything I’ve paid for.

  123. exreadingboy says:

    Sorry me again, one paragraph in my post just now should have read…

    ‘What you do NOT seem to get are loads of attempts to sell you anything else via e-mail etc. However, while on the website, you do get pop up ads trying to flog you brokers etc but you can ignore ‘em. I guess they have to monetize the site somehow!’

    Sorry, my enthusiasm got the better of me there!



  124. ActionMan says:

    Following my post on Feb 23, the A minus B system did not improve, and in fact the (paper trading) betting bank increased its loss. So it went back and, as usual, I received a prompt and polite refund from Streetwise. I continued to keep an eye on the system for quite a while beyond the refund time limit, just to see if I hadn’t given it a fair chance, but nothing improved. So I researched gap trading (which is what this is) a bit and found that A minus B is really too simplistic a version of a comparatively well known method to work properly. I’m not even certain that with all the refinements that I learned that it would be a reliable profit maker. If you want to know more, google ‘gap trading’.

  125. sharpy says:


    I’m new here and was looking for info regarding this product. Which i have found here, so will not be wasting my time with it.

    Thanks to all the contributors who took the time yo share their experiences.


  126. pmcsacv says:

    Like it, believe it, realise it, or not, EVERY human is dual natured. This is because ALL have 2 brain lobes which offer 2 viewpoints, oka Relativity, for every view, or Reality. This vacillation/duality does not depend on If’s and But’s but on opportunity, Time & Space being the allusion to there being something Of Infinity, oka The Timing.

    EVERY human is an energy transformer with only those who are able to create energy being the ones who are able to truly destroy. As the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics states, energy will revert to an overall basal/resting state with the littering of peaks and troughs of energy being the allusion and bait to Humanity’s Duality of Pro vs Con, the latter being the tango which leads to nowhere real other than going round and around.

    Within the realm of duality which is merely the tusseling between diametric but tethered states, oka the different faces of the same coin, reality is merely the relativity between the opposing protagonists. They are so because they do not have the means to sense/see/instrument the reality. When there is only the apparent choice, blind-blindedness is then the reality. That of gambling where a winning gamble is merely the latency of its losing gamble. This being about gambling, it is benevolent to realise that under perfect conditions, a gamble will realise neither gain nor loss. As all know only too well, the condition of every gamble by humans is not perfect which is why cheating and the selling of dreams is the easy way out of a gamble/risk.

    Hands up those who cannot see that should there be a foolproof way of making money, oka The Golden Goose, no dual natured human will be selling said Goose nor Its Egg. Gamblers win because of the statistic whereby should one be riding on the favourable stats, getting out while the gamble is favourable is then the means to winning at gambling – should one not resort to cheating or milking the patsy before he awakes.

    When it comes to gambling, it is also benevolent to realise that the realm of humanity is one of Robbing Peter to Pay Paul. This is because when energy transformation is the reality, The Zero Sum is then the means to realising a gain. This principle will not change so long as one is dual-natured. The joke then is that there are those who spend their whole life trying to convince others that they are singularly natured. Numpties like politicians and the sellers of dreams. As all know only too well, these numpties are not that stupid if only because they are able to exploit the dumbness/worship of their audience/victims, Stupidity being Dumbness suppressed whereas Dumbness is merely Stupidity expressed.

    When an entity is only an energy transformer, his duty is to Take and Take and Take, oka Of Conditionality and Being Conditioned whereas the sole duty of those who are able to create energy is to Give and Give and Give, those who are Unconditional, those who have no inkling what Taking is or means. This Simplicity Eludes the majority of humans, oka the dual natured, who would like others to imagine that they are singularly natured. Devolutionarily that is.

    When some one is selling his Golden Goose, it is because that goose had been well and truly cooked. Hands up those who would like to disagree. Well sweets, benevolence for you is when you are able to see who is managing your dual-natured “account”. Addiction being the reality of the Conditioned-Conditional, one could never say “No” to that which damages if only because the poison is masochistically delicious. Just like the religiously hallelujahing who try to deny Adrenaline and Acetylcholine as they impatiently wait for the sweet little angels and their choir practice session. But at least they try to deny their hormonals time and again, which is why the likes of “Road Cleverness” sells the same ole rope for new money successfully time and time again.

    When you are buying a golden goose bundled with If’s and But’s, you are merely buying the risk which the seller does not have to take and when to comes to risk taking, Statistics is both The King and The Kingmaker. This is because when 100 humans were tasked with an activity, Statistics say that 3 to 5 of them will always be successful regardless of the activity, with 8 to 15 being “OK but…”, and with 20-odd floundering on their If’s & But’s. As for the remainder of the original 100, they might as well give you the money in exchange for a good luck kiss – right on the kisser should they want it. And guess what the, “Honestly gov, I am singularly natured” then do? Yes, they use those 3-5 good folks to testify to the efficacy of the product. And No, you do not need to make any of this up – unless one’s addicition extends to outright masochism. Now, where would you like the hardest kick …. Down there or up thar. It depends on whether one is stupid or dumb, of course, The Timing being the reality and not Time. Stupidity being the latency of Dumbness, it really does not matter because sooner or later, the pain will be felt all over. Now, hands up those who ‘fink that those copywriters could write like this? Really? whilst bearing in mind that everything which is real is always free – so long as The Armageddon is relinquished for The Apocalypse otherwise, the oxygen that you are now breathing will be a monthly retainer for The Tag-Alongs of The Pet Tentacle of The Bookie, The Chosen Few, if only because Perpetual Income dictates that the Rental Model is the next brave new world.

    Realise too [because knowing is insufficient for the task] that ANY human who sells dreams is dual natured with his singularity of nature being reserved for his malevolence. Should any human ever gets to switch [back] on his Spirituality, he will be able to attest to there being 3 states of existence, namely, Reality/Divinity/The Truly Living who is beyond Rhyme & Reason, The Bookie/Devolution/The Stone Dead who has neither Rhyme nor Reason for Its Cruelty & Comfort/Cunning, and Relativity/Humanity/The Living but Dead who exists solely to Rhyme & Reason about everything under The Sun.

    If and when possible, be conscious and thence be aware that Reality is Self/Empowerment/The-Kinetic/Femininity whereas Others’ Reality is merely one’s Relativity/Knowledge/Potential/Masculinity. Unless one is mired into The Sado/Machoism & its Maso/Feminism, of course. Do not confuse Knowledge with Its Empowerment. For the dual natured human, one’s Femininity & Masculinity are separate but tethered whereas for the benevolently singularly natured, both aspects are complementary much like A Word & Its meaning or The Sun & Sunlight, there being no such thing as “Divorce” in Reality unless one is consumed by The Mesmeric Tentacle of The Bookie, Religion & Religiosity, The Bookie being the only One who profits from Disagreement. There, this should set the cat amongst the pigeons.

  127. Bear1 says:


    Funny you should say that because I was just thinking the same thing myself.

  128. Pablo Blanco says:

    Re A minus B Thanks for all your comments and you have saved me time/money and frustration. Anyone want my moving average system? Am sure its as good as most. LOL. Pablo Blanco.

  129. waiter says:

    Thanks everyone.Since I bought a so called arbitrage system from these spivs(streetwise) many moons ago with the arbs vanishing in the blink of an eyelid,I have been very wary of them.However I am ashamed to admit that I paper traded a horseracing system some years ago for an entire season (some 80 races) and just about doubled my bank! I never had the bottle rto follow it up with real money, yet I could with a mobile and betfair, and iam still working shifts at nearly 67!. Tell me I am insane!

  130. tom42 says:

    Just had the umpteenth mailshot about this. It includes a testimonial from the future, dated 2nd Feb 2014.

  131. voodoo1 says:

    …Will let you know how I get on in a week or so.
    that was back in April, so any luck with it?

  132. kvdowman says:

    Just received yet another mailshot from streetwise even after asking them not to send any more.
    I would not buy any more systems from them not after being refused a refund.

    October 21, 2013 @13.45

  133. sdunn5 says:

    Good evening All,
    I have just spent the best part of an hour reading through your comments after receiving my invite for the A minus B system.
    Nearly one year on and the concensus appears to be a no, which is a shame because £200 a day would be for me and I think a lot of people, life changing.
    I may seem a little under ambitious here, but I would be fairly happy making £10 to £30 a day on a plausible system, £100 a day would well a dream come true.
    it would be fair to say I am not a betting man and struggle to understand the decimal odds system used on the likes of Betfair, however I would gladly wager £100 or £200 per bet if I was certain to make £10 providing it did not take up as much time as calling into the bookies writitng out a slip and placing the bet.
    Can anyone recommend any such systems? Neil Walton’s bit about laying the field sounds interesting is there any systems or info regarding this?
    As for the taxman I would relish the chance to lock horns over winnings, since that nasty bloke in the bowler hat bankrupted me without a fair fight.
    Thank you all for your comments it has been extremely interesting.
    Best regards


  134. 17lodger says:

    Yes I think it could well be ! Wonder why it is being sold “unopened” when it could be returned to Streetwise (?) for full refund of ca £300 ?
    Still at £29.99 it sounds a good buy, even if you don’t take it any further.

  135. foxy.lord says:

    Now Agora are pushing this system @ £375,i wonder if they have read the post from Derek??.i will certainly be giving this a miss, at this price.

  136. sofaking says:

    Also received an email from Agora pushing a Minus B. Doesn’t look too promising from what I see here!

  137. tom42 says:

    Any update on this, bowler?

    ” bowler says:
    December 8, 2012 at 4:16 pm

    Received my parcel today. Have not had time to get to grips with it all but as Nimrod says it does appear to be based on solid principles but it would be impossible to make any comment as to its effectiveness until it has been tried and tested over a reasonable period. Again, as Nimrod points out, it is indeed the KrautGap system by John Piper – David Houghton is an alias – but the author is not trying to fool anyone. He does make clear from the outset the reasons for the subterfuge which I can understand and go along with.

    As has already been guessed on this thread, it is all about binary trading in a very narrow market (the understanding of complex formulas is in way a requirement) and, although I have by no means looked at the course content in anything other than a cursory manner it looks very clearly set out and extremely well presented. Have not yet looked at any of the DVDs.

    I’m going to surrender to it and looking forward to starting the study proper next week.”

  138. bowler says:


    You have well and truly pricked my conscience as I did indeed say that I would return with details following my purchase of this, now some eighteen months ago. I could come up with the excuse that I was unable to come back as I was transformed into a near catatonic state while utilising it and it would only be a partially light hearted comment.

    I did indeed spend time studying the material and viewing the DVDs and while I admit that there was nothing shoddy or difficult to understand within the pack it was just all so terribly time consuming and tedious when applying my newly found skills to the job in hand. I admit that it could have been a slow period, but the binary opportunities that did arise were very few and far between and it would have been impossible to make the claimed profits (was it around £200 a day?) unless trading with £10-£15 a point which is way, way to much to risk from a beginners starting bank. Altogether I played for around three weeks.

    At some point during this period I decided that I really had no interest in binary trading and returned the pack for a refund citing the reasons given above. The refund was received promptly and with a courteous thank you for trying it etc.

    I think that at heart I am basically a horse racing slob through and through.

  139. tony054 says:

    Hi. Has anyone had any success with this ? According to the info it is supposed to be easy. Subtract 1 number from 1 website and another number from a different site to see if you have a bet/trade if the diference is more than 10. Takes 4mins and 20seconds a day. Looks like binary trading……..Tony

  140. hilly29 says:

    Of course it’s binary trading. Have you not read the comments on this thread?

  141. Mike Pears says:

    Hi everyone. There seems to be some confusion here. I am currently undertaking a full independent review of A-B on this site (see above). It is NOT binary trading as has been explained earlier in this thread – it spread bets on the DAX using GAP analysis and it does work although not to the level that is claimed in the advertising (what a surprise !). The review is now nine weeks into the trial so keep an eye on this page to follow it’s progress as I intend to post at least 3 months results. Hope that helps.

  142. Mike Pears says:

    Correction to the above posting – I misread “binary trading” to be “binary options”. A-B does not involve binary options but it can be described as binary trading. Subtle difference but there is a full description of what it is in the full review.

  143. maxreturns says:

    Be ashamed Frank Hemsley and thanks to all the honest reviewers on here.

    Received a promo about this yesterday from Frank and initially was quite excited thinking it was something new and exciting and worthwhile. However what was nagging in my head were the two usual questions that the answers are often hidden away or avoided by sensational copywriters….past results and what size bank necessary to get the results (£200 per day) the headline and article use with gay abandon.

    Why were they not included in the promo?

    If Frank eta al say they are going to bring us the best products and separate the wheat from the chaff why do products they are endorsing have such poorly detailed promos with no example of past results or bank size needed to meet the claims made in the promo? They should know better and be leading by example.

    Could it be because past results (like those on this review showing less than half what the promo claims) don’t back up the claims and because they know a £10,000 banks size is needed to meet their claims of £200 per day but they don’t want to tell you this as they make money from people buying it!

    This is what puts me off being a premium member on here. How can it be 100% independant if the Finance Managing Editor is promoting products that are put out by Agora and presumably he and Agora get an affiliate payment from it. If you are going to do this at least make sure everything is of the highest standard with preferably past results AND bank size illustrations. Have tick box standards for promos so everything is crystal clear.

    Having read the reviews on here I find this is not a new product and the bank size recommendations are stake 0.1%.

    So…staking 0.1% of a £10,000 bank may make you £200 on a given day BUT….how many people will ever be playing with a £10,000 bank!

    Assuming a £500 bank, which still may be too high for many readers, we are staking 50p a pt. So as 132pts per month from the review seems average that is a profit of £66 a month or £2 a day approximately. So it will take us nearly six months just to pay for the system and many years before we get to the £10,000 bank!

    For God’s sake, lets lose the sensationalist promos, the headline examples that don’t actually tell you the claims are on a bank of £10,000 AND start to live in the real world and say what a product can do for the average person in the street who clearly does not have £10,000 to try this out on!Then you will gain the respect of the masses.

    We just want honesty and clarity Frank, not you promoting products with unrealistic sensationalistic claims just to get an affiliate bonus.

    This is not a personal attack on Frank whatsoever, but a plea for more honesty and clarity for the man in the street. Honesty and clarity before profits please.

  144. TripleTop says:

    Just shows you there is very little that is genuinely new in this money making by speculation game, and apparently nothing more reliable than Bonus Bagging and Profit Maximiser. They seem to be the last word in money making for everyone, regardless of personal background or skills.

  145. maxreturns says:

    I’d certainly agree with you there, what you see with BB and PM is honesty, great support and great profits.

    None of this make £200 a day oh and by the way we won’t tell you need a £10,000 bank to do this or give you any past results or mention that if your results go as per trial in the real world on a realistic £500 bank you’ll make £66 a month so actually £2 a day not £200 a day so it will take 6 months to even cover the cost of the system!

  146. kevinsnelling says:

    Isn’t there any system out there that simply does what it’s meant to do and makes enough money for us lot.
    It’s depressing and like ‘ Waiter’ May 11 2013′ I am tired of shift work too.
    I had my hopes set on Tim Lowes ‘Up to 1000 % ‘ but then fortunately read the review in this publication just before I was going to send off for it. Phew that was close !
    I too am now studying the very excellent ‘ Babypips ‘ course and also Mike Jalland s course looks good.
    Can anyone guide us to the proverbial ‘ light at the end of the tunnel ‘ ?
    PLEASE !

  147. hotdeffender says:

    Ive just emailed Frank and asked him if any of these products really work. Tom Traget will tell you that none of these systems will work for long, if at all.

    The top rated ones which still get poor user reviews are as follows:

    AItradesafe aka 1000%

    Tom tragets DVD course

    Bedtime trader

    Trend signal only £3000 to sign upto!!

    A minus B

    Bread and butter trading.

    Then a load of training courses for manual trading.

    Anyone tried any of these and actually make money from them?

    Ill see if frank responds with an honest answer or if its all about affiliate marketing for Agora

  148. hotdeffender says:

    Still no reply from Agora, but I will be trialling one of these with real money very soon. Im currently trialling a few betting systems including my own little brainwave, all with real money. Ill let you all know what works very soon.

    I think with any system, a lot of it is down to the individual. If you haven’t got the nuts to use real money or are scared by anything less than 100% strike rate then you are wasting your time even looking on here.

    My view is that to make a decent income, you need multiple steams. Maybe a few sports trading systems, a forex system and some biz ops.

    Before selecting my systems and chosen tipsters, im cross referencing reviews on MMR with other sites.

  149. TripleTop says:

    I would agree with Tom Traggett’s assessment of those mechanical systems, although Tom lost me a ton of money a few years back.

    If there really was a simple set of rules that worked to make a profit 90% of the time, everybody would use them!

    Speculation is really only for insiders, full time experts, and make money (them, not you) online marketers!

    Everyone else should stick to matched betting / arbitrage or flogging stuff on eBay & Amazon. You can also make a teeny amount on places like Fiverr, Odesk and eLance.

  150. peterpan says:

    A lot of angst above regarding whether anything works. Trading or speculation requires study and practice. But the good news is, is that simplicity works and simplicity is a requirement. I have been trading the currency markets for 7 years, the last 3 profitably.

    I use a logic that is freely available on the web. Search for Sam Seiden on fxstreet. It’s all free. Watch the videos over and over and over again, especially the videos where he shows and runs through multiple time frames. It’s logical, its simple but you have to be disciplined and thorough. Hope that helps.

  151. TripleTop says:

    Hmmm arent his supply & demand zones just support & resistance rebranded?

    Great that its working for you, but it doesnt follow that its the system rather than your personal skill & extensive experience.

  152. hotdeffender says:

    Out of interest peter are you able to make a few hundred pounds a week with your system like they all claim? Im still waiting for agora to respond lol.

  153. peterpan says:

    I hear often regarding supply and demand zones being S&R re-branded. It usually comes from people who haven’t gone through the videos or understand the concept fully. It’s an entirely different logic. I am not saying the concept is better than S&R, but I believe the concept of S&D has a stronger basis/probability of acting more consistently. I find S&R not as strong and consistent from experience.

    I found Seiden when I cam to similar conclusions regarding my own trading. I was fed up with getting into trades only for them to reverse on me. I pretty much stripped all the indicators off my charts and just sat there for many hours looking at the relationship/pattern of turning points in the market and realised that is where I needed to be getting in.

    Even after looking at Seiden’s work it still took me some time before being profitable with it as it was very difficult entering at a level against the immediate trend and momentum (the opposite of what most technical analysts tell you to do). So for a long time it was a psychological battle -waiting for confirmation thus increasing my risk exposure and limiting my reward/profits.

    I trade a large account so my risk can be low being 0.25% – 1% per trade. I aim and often exceed 5% per month consistently trading 4 hours per day. Two hours around European/London open and two hours around NY open. I trade swing and day trade set ups working with about 12 pairs; currencies including cfd’s, metals and indices. I trade family and friend’s accounts also for 25% of profits made. Slow steady growth and consistency I find is low stress and I hate spending too long at the screen.The less time the better and limit orders with a set and forget approach stops me from intervening too early with the trade.

    It took me 4 years full time to get profitable so yes experience matters but it’s mostly psychological experience and changing natural responses to fear and greed.

    I used to be a big fan of Lance Beggs but realised after a while that his style was just too controlling for me. It took me a long time to understand what was meant by trading style and the need to find a style that suited one’s personality. So I think understanding this early on will help with a suitable trading technique to follow or adapt.

  154. TripleTop says:

    Thanks for sharing your journey.

    I’m glad its turned out so well for you, and financial freedom is yours.

    Don’t take this the wrong way, but the fact that you succeeded in no way helps people like kevinsnelling.

    We all know of very successful people in every field of human activity, but that does not mean most of us get anywhere near Usain Bolt or Novak Djokovic.

    I’ve met several people who claimed to be long term consistently profitable on financial markets. When asked about methods, most were vague & would not give details…. which is fair enough. But the ones that did, gave interesting responses. They were all different, but all cited very familiar things: some said MACD, some said Pivots & Fibonacci, one said the characteristics of previous trading sessions.

    All the things that amateurs try & fail with miserably, every day, in their thousands!

    I know people on forums have gone through Sam Seiden videos and pointed to inconsistencies in his approach. He rejected entries which previous rules indicated he should have taken. Sometimes he uses candle stalks, other times candle bodies.

    This is the same as with the people I knew : their stated methodology did not match their actual trade decisions.

    So… there are two possibilities:

    1) Successful traders are lying about the actual methods, and pushing a “smokescreen” method to fob off others

    2) Successful traders have a second layer of subconscious decision making that filters the signals of the stated “outer” system.

    I think its the second one, but it doesn’t matter. Either way, a newbie following the stated, outer system will likely fail.

    If it is the second option, winning traders will be unable to help beginners, even if they want to, because the key decision making process is not a conscious one that they can fully translate into a set of rules.

    Of all the possible ways of making money from home, financial speculation is probably one of the most difficult for the non specialist.

  155. hotdeffender says:

    Has anyone tried ayondo? It allows you to just copy a pro trader and they take a cut of your profits. I think it can even be done automatically. It was in MMRs top forex systems. But no reviews on it

  156. 5aces says:


    I tried anyondo over a year ago and made no money at all. I let it run on autopilot for about 8 months because they gave me a joining bonus of £100 and I had to trade 1000 open and close trades before allowing to withdraw. I followed the top 5 traders and in total lost about £40 over the 8 months. (My account was set at 1p trades) but nonetheless it should have reflected the percentage growth but somewhat didn’t. I can see all the open and closed trades on my statement. I made a profit only because of the bonus otherwise it would have been a small loss.

    Now it has been in total over 2 years since I started and one of the features on there at the start was to follow the followers ie you could see which real account was profitable and which traders they were following and their settings. As of today when I looked on the website, this feature still says will be available soon. Come on really after 2 years and still cannot get this feature to work? Just tells me that there’s not many accounts making money on there.

    Don’t get me wrong I like the idea but it didn’t make money for me.

  157. peterpan says:

    I agree with the inconsistencies issue with Seiden. It appears that way but like you say, there is a greater, perhaps unconscious thinking process that one does not become conscious of and difficult to teach. I have losses. Lots of losses, every month. But I am just trading the probabilities and making sure that I cut my losses short and run with my winners. My wining ratio is less than 50% and for many people, to be wrong more often than right is very very difficult to do consistently. It was for me for many years. I think this is the biggest challenge of all, accepting the losses and being wrong most often.

  158. maxreturns says:

    DISGUSTED again by the totally biased emailsales letter sent out today by MMR about this system in order to get sales. This site has lost its value to the readers as the ‘official side’ are only interested in putting a positive spin on products so they get affiliate sales. The members make this site by giving honest rounded views but the ‘official side’ can no longer be relied on to give unbiased views, they want sales, period. I’d hasten to add I have no issue with the reviewer for his unbiased review but I do take issue with the misleading sales pitch in the sales letter and misleading follow up comments by the ‘official side’ and Michelle Roberts today as they do not give the full picture.

    The main issues of concern raised re this product were lack of visible past results and lack of bank size necessary for claimed results. Michelle has ignored these, I assume because they don’t want us to know the results or the fact you’d need to have a bank of £10,000 to have a chance of winning £200 a day.

    Now Michelle says during the MMR trial May to July (8 weeks) we had 264pts 94% strike rate.

    What she doesn’t say is that on a realistic bank of £500 that is only £66 profit per month on recommended stakes so it will take you 6 months just to pay for the system which costs £75.

    MORE WORRINGLY what MMR don’t reveal is full official results for the year so far, which incidently show March -43pts, April -213pts and May -35pts. In fact official results for the year so far Jan 2014 to July 2014 only show a profit of 143pts for the 7 month period. This equates to a profit of around £70 on our £500 bank in 7 months (or around £10 a month profit) from a product costing £375 – clearly it would take many years just to pay for the product.

    Lastly, the £200 per day hype. For this you would need at recommended staking levels a bank of £10,000! Oh and be able to withstand losing months like April 2014 where you would have lost 213pts or a losing streak March 2014 to May 2014 of 291pts! Could you stomach that?! It is also claimed 300 points a month is expected! Official results for the last year show this has never been achieved, in fact the system only broke into a three figure profit month 3 times in the last year and then no where near 300pts! In reality over the last 7 months it has made 143 points when claims would lead you to think it would have made 2100 pts!

    Again this is not a personal attack on FrankMichelle or anyone connected with the product, but a plea for more honesty and clarity for the man in the street. Honesty and clarity before profits please. This site is in danger of becoming another place for Agora to sell products by just telling you what they want you to know rather than give you the full picture totally impartially on products. When this happens respect and trust is lost and the sites loses value.


  159. sensientuk says:

    Max,I love this site for the ability it gives to see through the hype, and benefit from opinions from more experienced people – something that as a newbie I need !

    And whilst I share your reservations max about some of the MMR mailshots appearing to be slanted towards affiliate marketing.

    In fairness the spreadsheet supplied with the above review seems pretty transparent in showing the reviewer worked with a £1000 bank – and profited around £197 over a 2 month period….. I would like to see the results over the promised 3 month period from the MMR reviewer – especially as 3/4 of the last days shown were loses (was this the start of the dreaded “loosing run” or did things pickup).

    MMR do state this is below the figures hyped so I am not sure they (MMR) are misleading anyone – and whilst the huge amounts of daily profit on the headline would be lovely…….IF its 10 minutes a day – and IF it makes c£100 a month reliably on a 1K bank (or pro-rata)then I guess I wouldn’t be the only person to be happy to add this to my daily activities/ income.

    But those “IF’s” are important for me and longer term results are – in your post you quote “official” figures ? Can I ask where you found those please ?

  160. edred says:

    The dilemma for me with all these home based Biz. opps. is this: One part of me is pulling in the direction of the old saying ” Nothing Ventured, nothing gained “, & the other part of me is urging caution & deliberation.!!
    Its a psychological battle . Where is the correct balance before coming to a decision?
    Lets have some opinions on this from other MMR users.

  161. maxreturns says:


    1) The official figures are from Agora themselves.

    2) Using the official figures of 143pts profit since January 2014, that is £143 profit in 7 months with a £1000 bank, or £20 a month profit. At that rate it would take a year and a half to pay for the product! So we have made £20 a month based on official figures since January 2014. Extrapolating this, the product claims to make £200 a day which would equate to £4000 a month as mentioned in the sales pitch!!! To achieve the £4,000 a month based on official figures since January your bank would need to be somewhere in the region of £200,000 i.e. two hundred thousand pounds as you would be staking £200 a pt at the recommended staking level of 0.1%!!! No one tells you this!

    3) The constant criticism about most sales letters re bettingforexsimilar is they sometimes lack past results and don’t tell you what size bank is needed to achieve the headline figures given – this product provided neither.

    4) The misleading part is : a) Agora have results going back over at least the last year and yet don’t publish them because the product has not performed as per the hype in the sales pitch. b) the product claims to deliver around 300pts per month, it hasn’t delivered that at any time in the last year as per the results Agora supplied me with yet they are happy to plug it to get affiliate commissions. c) they claim you can make £200 a day but fail to tell you this would require a huge bank d) though this is meant to be a review site they want you to buy the product so they get paid so they plug that the product has had a reasonable 2 months but again don’t show the results for the last year even though they have them – that would be a better testbench mark but wouldn’t suit their sales endevours. e) why put out a sales letter with such massive claims when the results over the last year clearly don’t match what is in the sales letter! Surely there is a duty of care here? f) the sales letter suggests strike rate is 70 to 80%, certainly hasn’t been as high as that this year, one month it was 25%! In fact it has been 64% over the last 14 months, the sales letter is inaccurate!

    The issue is, if we are here to exchange info and help each other out in an open and honest manner we don’t expect people to be economical with the truth and with hold information to make something look better than it is.

    Just my views, I’ve learnt to be wary of salesmen, which is what the overseers of this forum are. I just want people to get a proper amount of info so they can make an informed choice based on ALL the facts not just a glossy subset suited to making a sale.

  162. BobbyF says:

    A cynic might suggest that we’ve been waiting for a profitable 8 week spell to actually run a review of the thing.

  163. TripleTop says:

    Proofing for any sort of system that plays financial markets should run for at least 18 months continuously.

    All systems, even the stinkers, will have a few lucky weeks now and again. You can always cherry pick a good run somewhere.

    As maxreturns says, few users would have been able to withstand the drawdowns to get to the profits.

  164. Mike Pears says:

    Great to see such a lively discussion on here about the “A-B System”. I’m continuing this review for at least another two months and maybe longer and the full figures should be updated very soon. However, if it helps, here are the full summaries up-to-date as of yesterday :-

    Week 9 (July 14th) – loss of 68 pts (worst week so far)
    Week 10 – profit of 14 pts
    Week 11 – profit of 19 pts
    Week 12 – profit of 96 pts
    Week 13 – loss of 27 pts
    Week 14 – loss of 52 pts

    Total profit over 14 weeks is 246 pts. Their advertising predicts that this should be around 1,000 pts. So, yes, it does appear to have hit the dreaded losing run after a good start but at least it’s still in the black.

    Hope that helps.

  165. RichBitch says:

    I was persuaded to buy this system by an Agora email last week promising ‘Pocket £200 a day using one simple calculation’ and it was delivered in the post today. I have spent the day reading the manual and I understand how it works and was all ready to start trading next week. Then I got the email from MMR about only 264 pts profit over 8 weeks. Then I logged on and read this thread.

    I feel like a gullible fool. Is it actually legal to mislead people so brazenly?

  166. TripleTop says:

    You know that archived data for all financial instruments exists online, right?

    There are huge repositories of financial data with tick level resolution, going back at least five years. Lower level resolution goes back considerably further.

    There are online and PC based applications that can backtest trading models automatically for any set of data. Using these resources, its possible to quickly produce comprehensive reports of strike rate, drawdown and expected return per trade based on years of real world data.

    In a Bank or Hedge fund, I doubt if any proposed strategy would get anywhere near a trading desk without having been rigorously evaluated across years, if not decades, of historical data.

  167. Frogsrock66 says:

    I got the mail shot about this one and have had numerous emails from Agora to keep reminding me about it. Read the sales letter and it says it’s nothing to do with forex but from the comments I’ve read here, I get the feeling it’s something to do with some kind of trading – binary trading 🙁 not sure what that is exactly but, anyway, what I want to know is, is this something you can do in the evenings or do you have to go into these websites at a particular time each day as if you do, well I start work at 7am so not much good for me really at the moment. The review from MMR seems good so far but you need a hefty betting bank for this one as it says in the sales letter you need from £500 to £1000 and with the £375 to buy it, that’s a bit of money. I am going to watch this space for a bit and see what others think but I was a bit concerned when I saw it was from Streetwise but even so, that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t try something from them again 🙂

  168. hotdeffender says:

    I think the ifficial results speak for themselves. Nowhere near whats claimed. So surely even with a 19k bank. It wont make 200 a day. Ive not tested this system. So I cant say much. But its so sad that most of the systems are crap. Ayondo top of agoras best forex list. Made no money for one member. Women cant serve. Advertised as making over 200 for a member. It really made 38 quid on the trades and 110 on ante post. But lost 45 on the accas. So nowhere near as advertised. Will it take alot of time. Agora= no. Errrr. Yes it flaming did!!’ Its a shame michelle and frank dont have the guts to come on here and explain themselves.

  169. maxreturns says:

    Richbitch and hotdeffender: perhaps this is one for the Advertising Standards Authority and yes Michelle and Frank do seem conspicuous by their absence.

  170. Paul T says:

    If You re-read the sales platter, it states “could” make you x amount not “will”. It’s only got to be theoretically possible for the stated amount to be made to be legal I would guess. However unlikely.

  171. hotdeffender says:

    I think we could all make a system. That could atleast make 900 in 2 mins. Infact im trialling my own system that did just that yesterday. But then lost 500. So clearly not yet something that is going to appeal. MMR is a trusted rescource to find us money making ops. Atleast a real review is being carried out. But its not something that they should be plugging until its a product worth buying. It would be ashame to see mmr descend into another greedy affiliate marketing company whos sole aim in to make money.

  172. maxreturns says:

    I firmly believe the Advertising Standards Authority would sanction MMR and Agora over this and it would not be the first time either.

    If a trader does something to mislead you into buying something that you may not have bought if you had been given all the information, this is an unfair commercial practice and is against the law. Misleading actions are covered by Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (2008).

    Claims as Agora know also have to be substantiated.

    300 pts a month…..not achieved that ever in the last 14 months, infact only achieved a total of 143 points since January, unsubstantiated.

    Strike rate 70 to 80 %……not achieved that in last 14 months where if has been 64% on average dipping as low as 25%, unsubstantiated.

    Claims of making £200 a day and £4000 a month, totally unsubstantiated.

    As mentioned at the start of this reply an ad is also misleading if the advertiser does not give you all the facts paryicularly facts that if you had had you might not have made your purchase. Here we have Agora having the results for the last 14 months in their possession but not revealling them…..presumably because they show results that in no way support the claims in their sales patter….and if you had these results you probably as a poster said above wouldn’t buy the product. There their behaviour is misleading.

    Agora and MMR have been sanctioned before by the ASA because they had not substantiated implied claims that monthly profits stated in adverts could be consistently achieved by users. Clearly they have not learnt their lesson, affiliate commisions before providing members of this forum with all the facts so ghey can make an informed decision about their potential purchase.

  173. Qwillan says:

    There is a distinct smell developing on this thread and on other threads as to the real intentions of MMR as it is now. Agora lackeys it seems. What a shame.

  174. MMR admin says:


    Michelle here. Just thought I’d set the record straight.

    Firstly: Hotdeffender – you state “Ive not tested this system.” So I don’t think you really have a right to criticise or even comment on this thread to be honest.

    To everyone else – I’m sorry if the promotional material offended you or made you feel like you were being misled.

    The promotional material has nothing to do with us here directly at More Money Review – it was produced by Agora. We have no control over it, just like we don’t have control over the promo material for any Betfan, Tipster Warehouse, Canonbury, Simon Coulson products etc etc…

    We did what we always do for a product – we have tested it for a specified time (and we are continuing to test it – for at least another 3 months). And after a good run we decided to tell members about it.

    In fact this product will have a longer trial period than the majority of other products we have reviewed on here – BECAUSE we know that it needs to be seen over a longer period.

    Every week in our Full Review Roundup we do exactly what we’ve done with this product – we’ve reported the monthly review/trial figures and have stated whether, based on those results, we recommend it or not.

    If you read those Full Review Roundups you’ll see that most weeks’ emails contain recommendations for products that are NOT AGORA, nor have any affiliation with us.

    I haven’t done anything with the A Minus B system that I haven’t done with every other product I’ve recommended since I took over from Jack. In fact I can prove that I have recommended more Non-Agora products than Jack did.

    At the end of the day I could go on and on about this but I won’t. This website is free and gives you access to a place where you can slag off companies to your hearts content without being moderated.

    If you don’t like it – then you are more than welcome to find another review site to discuss products on.

    Now, I’m off to enjoy what is left of my bank holiday.

  175. MMR admin says:

    One last thing,

    When we review a product here at More Money Review, we don’t look at previous results as we never really know whether they are proven, true results.

    So we simply test it and record the results we see with our own eyes.

    Our recommendations always go on what we’ve seen in the trial period, nothing else. I’m sorry if this isn’t made clear enough and it is something that I will address in a future issue of More Money Review.

    We just say what we see – and in this review period we saw a profit.

    It wasn’t as much as claimed by the promotional material but I’ve mentioned that before (in my Full Review Roundup at the end of the first month of the trial).

  176. hotdeffender says:

    Hmm looks like michelle has got a bit upset by some of the recent threads. Now im sure she and the other guys work really hard and have the best intentions. Ive been investigating business ops for over a year now using numerous review sites. I think the issue is although mmr is supposed to be an independent review panel under the agora umbrella. It’s still owned by agora which is a publisher and I believe afiliate marketing company. I appreciate agora exists to make moneylike any business. I think the boundaries can become blurred. It seems to me that adverts and emails plugginyour reciteroducts come thick and fast. No one would mind you banging on about bb, profit maximiser, spymare, mikes arbitrage etc. They work and make money. But I think agoras marketing department should listen to mmr and tone down. Alot of the emails etc and generic and rehashed to suit various products.

    Whilst i havent tried this product. Ive been looking hard at forex. Some of the rated priducts are useless. Some have limited results and some contradict each other. We only need to find one ir two that really work. So should we follow tom traget. Spend out on trendsignal etc. I apreciate the work reviewers do. But agora/mmr need to be carefull on overplugging qustionable products. Some sites only recommend mike cruishank and peter butler which says it all. There are limited ways to prifit from sports betting and forex. I think ive nailed down betting. Sorry no turn key sit on your arse and do nothing holy grail. But you can make money. Now I just want to find a forex system or course and a biz op.

  177. MMR admin says:


    I will pass your comments on to the marketing department at Agora. They encourage feedback (both good and bad – unlike other companies) and use it to improve their services.

    You say there is no “turn key sit on your arse and do nothing holy grail” and I agree with you.

    I believe that everyone who is interested in trading forex should, at the very least, learn the basics of trading – from a site like Babypips or a course like Price Action Trading Equation or Fast Track to Forex Success.

    However, you say that most systems lose money but even someone who has learnt to trade and trades themselves without using a system/tipster can hit losing runs.

    At the end of the day, trading is just another form of betting. It’s unpredictable and cannot be 100% profitable.

    It’s up to the individual if they want to learn and trade themselves, or follow a system/trading expert.

    Either way though, losses will happen.

  178. hotdeffender says:

    I agree michelle that sports betting and forex is risky with loosing runs regardless of weather you use systems or are a pro trader. Ill take your advice and try babypips and then might choose a system to trial. Aitradesafe reqs to much time to monitor. Bedtime trader sounds like a good nighttime option.

    I think to make good money requires different avenues. Im using 5 approaches to sports betting which the potential to make over 100k per year whilst working full time. A mix of well known proven services and my own idea. Once ive added forex and proven to myself it can work long term. I might look to publish it as a blue print using agoras new publishing system.

    I will say to make 100k a year reqs a hour or two everyday. Some guts and the ability to stick to a plan. Oh and about 2k starting bank. Otherwise you start by making £10 a day and build up.

    Id like to say that michelle took the time to send me a personal reply today. So thanks for that. And also thanks to Mmr, forum members , make money forum and lucys layback and get rich I can conclude there is no holy grail for lazy people who are scared to take action. But, you can make money like a bookie and once you have the time, money to invest and the balls and energy to do it. You can go far.

  179. TripleTop says:

    @MMR admin

    This site does indeed provide a fine platform for lively debate!

    Thanks for featuring a very wide range of products, Michelle.

    With you when you say people just need a couple of reliable, trusted systems, not endless heaps of “maybe”, “could work should you get a lucky run” products!

    A general thread, where members could contribute their experience from the different areas & products, would be a super addition. Any discoveries and warnings from anywhere around the MMR site could be highlighted for others to check and corroborate.

    From a top level perspective, people should start with the simplest, most error-resistant systems first. Once they have a stream of income, however small, they can think about moving into the higher risk / higher reward areas.

    That progress would be helped by something like a “new readers start here” section. Also a rating in each product review of “suitability for newbies”. Another rating for “risk level” would be nice too…

    Starting from the safest, shallowest corners of the make money pond gives the best chance of eventually swimming with the big fish in the high income seas.

  180. MMR admin says:

    @Triple Top

    Thanks for your suggestions – we are always looking for ways to improve our service so will try and take these on board and make the site more user friendly.


  181. hotdeffender says:


    I agree, it would be good to have an area for that. Especially for those members who have tried things and post there findings. It saves hijacking threads like this which end up way off on a tangent lol

    Im sure all would agree, to read 30 posts from people who are to scared to even sign upto betfair yet alone use it all debating a product is unhelpful and annoying. Yet there are members on here making a tidy packet, whom im think we all would love to hear advice from. So a great idea

    My advice so far is start with Bonus bagging. Build up a betting bank, then maybe follow a decent tipster and have a play with betfair at low stakes and work out your own little niche. Later on add Profit maximiser and arbitrage software or spymare.

    NOTE: Mikes Abitrage now has a brilliant dutching software. The other day there were 5 live opportunities to make nearly £50 guaranteed a bet using £100 stakes. Id say £250 profit for a risk free £500 investment is amazing.

  182. TripleTop says:

    Its true – the product in this thread’s title is a distant memory!

    The systems that you have so succinctly listed, could take a newcomer many, many months to wander across on their own.

    I’d add an even lower rung on the ladder: for anyone with ZERO cash to invest, try and You are looking at peanuts on those two for sure – maybe seventy quid a month, but they cost nothing to get started, and being the online equivalent of envelope licking are risk free.

    Spymare sounds fab from what I’ve heard, but hasnt it been closed?

  183. MMR admin says:


    Can we keep this to talking about A Minus B System only please. There are threads here:


    For discussing Bonus Bagging products.

  184. dertrader says:

    Hi folks

    I’m new to this site, so returning this thread to topic, the A minus B system caught my eye. I already trade Forex (in a small way), so trading the DAX seems along similar lines. What I like about it is that is is simple, quick, and little room for interpretation as the rules for entry and exit are laid down quite clearly.

    Therefore, due mainly to the positive review on this site, I bought it – after all, nothing ventured, nothing gained. The money back guarantee gives some reassurance should it not work out. I am not naive enough to fall for all the sales hype, but I still think it could produce decent returns.

    I find it disappointing when people post that they have bought the system, and say they will report back, but fail to do so. Maybe they are too busy making money??

    I will report back in a month, as the manual and DVDs (nicely produced by the way), turned up just before the weekend. The concepts are straightforward for me to understand due to my experience with forex, so I will be ready to trade starting Monday (real money).

    Note that I will not be using IG Index (the one recommended) but my existing broker so results may differ slightly from future ones posted by MMR.

    Bye for now.

  185. spikesince1999 says:

    hi dertrader, I guess you are now nearly a month into your start period of this, will be interesting to see your results. I hope you post back here soon.

  186. chuks says:

    Thank you guys for all the comments. I got the A minus B system and had the same attitude as dertrader.I am going to start using soon but I am concerned that no one has reported consistently positive results. for the veterans, is there a good system or are all these systems just glorified scams?

  187. hotdeffender says:

    Chucks, it sounds like mmr have had some success. Like all these things you have to get on and try it and tweak it. Seeing as you have you have forked out for it. Try it and tell us if its worth it or not. I wont be buying this one. But am trialling and will report back on other products. Many things work when used properly with confidence. No turn key easy fullproof system though. B

  188. dertrader says:

    hi spikesince1999 & others

    Well I am probably about two thirds of the way through the trial period. Performance has not been dramatic one way or the other, but cannot comment fully until the end of the trial period.

    chuks – I don’t believe it is a scam, but like any system that is rigid – if market conditions suite it, it will do well, but if its like todays DAX, which just ranged up and down, it will produce losing trades. However like MMR, over the long term hopefully there are decent profits to be made.

  189. Mike Pears says:

    Update on the MMR trial to bring it up-to-date :-

    Week 17 – 2 bets – all winners – profit of 39 pts
    Week 18 – 4 bets – all winners – profit of 116 pts which is the best week yet.

    So, up to Friday 19th Sept that’s a total profit of 419 pts in 18 weeks.

    The review continues and will be fully updated every 4 weeks.

  190. dertrader says:

    Hi Mike

    Thanks for posting your up to date figures, but unfortunately they don’t agree with mine – can you please check yours, I have double checked mine.

    Note there may be 2 differences between us, firstly I am using my established broker and not the one suggested, secondly I am trading with real money, are you? So there may be some minor differences, but broadly speaking our trading should agree.

    I should say that I purchased this system in the first place on the (initial) excellent results you had been getting.

    For week 16 – I agree with your results, the only difference being that I chose not to trade on the big news day (thurs), which I believe is allowed within the system, and according to my chart, a trade would have just triggered (by one point) for a 52 pts loss.

    For week 17 – I agree with your results, I made 41 pts, so only a minor (2 pts) difference. So far, so good…

    week 18 – This is the week I dispute. 4 trades, 3 lost.
    Mon – 36 pts win.
    Tues – Gap only 11, not triggered by 16.00 – so was closed.
    Weds – Trade triggered, went into loss, adjusted at 11 am as per rules, but stopped out almost immediately for a 22 pt loss.
    Thurs – This is the biggie!! Gap was 27 and trade triggered by a 5 pt margin at around 8.20, so quite clear, went very quickly in wrong upwards direction (by over 75 points), so stopped out at the std 52 pts.
    Fri – Trade triggered almost straight away, but only just by 1 pt, which unfortunately, even after adjusting stop loss at 11 am, led to a 27 pt loss. I expect your trade did not trigger til around noon and made 46 pts – am I correct?

    I look forward to hearing back from you Mike.

  191. philipkettle says:

    Dertrader I got your results for week 18 as well so wait to hear what Mike says.

  192. says:

    I have been running the system since 8th September and my figures for that week are 4 winners of 9,8,30,18 and no trade so I have a gain of 65 points for week 17.
    Week 18 reads 42,2 (had to go out),-3 (got out early as had to be away from screen until late), -52 and 46 giving a total of 35 so the 2 weeks was 100.
    This week is not looking good though 30,-52,0 for the 3 days to 24th Sept giving a running total of 78 for nearly 3 weeks.
    Still in profit and a couple of days to go.

  193. dertrader says:

    Hi Terry

    Good to see another post here from somebody who is actually trying out the system.
    Sorry to ask, but are you sure you are applying the system correctly? If so you should not be seeing profits of under 10 points (the gap is too small) for week 17.
    I follow you for week 18.
    However this week the trade on the 23rd very clearly should not trigger. Are you sure you are placing your entries on the correct side of the candles?
    Just trying to help.

  194. Winterfrey says:

    MMR admin says: August 26, 2014 at 10:33 am

    “At the end of the day, trading is just another form of betting. It’s unpredictable and cannot be 100% profitable.”

    Completely disagree. 🙂

  195. dertrader says:

    Hi folks

    Well my trial of the A minus B system has finished, so here is my real world report. I started with a bank of 1000 points (actual euros as I had faith in the system because of Mike’s reports).
    Mike – still hoping for a response to my message above re differing results.

    Week 1 (week 16 of MMR) 2 trades +39, -52 = 987
    Week 2 (week 17) 3 trades +24, +17, +36 = 1064
    Week 3 (week 18) 3 trades -22,-52,-27 = 963
    Week 4 (week 19) 1 trade +43 = 1006

    So the end result was more or less break even. Unfortunately this is nowhere near their claimed results of 20 points a day, its not even 20 points a week. So I could not justify keeping the system and have returned it for a refund as per the terms of the guarantee.

    This is extremely disappointing as it is an easy to operate system. I think one problem with it is that the stop loss is up to 52 points, and the average win seems to be about 25 points, so the system needs to win 2:1 just to break even. It could not achieve this in September, which has been a fairly average trading month (market wise).

    I am coming to the conclusion that no rigid system lasts the test of time as market conditions change and only human intervention can adapt to evolving markets.

    Thanks for reading.

    • jason9032 says:

      im sorry dertrader but 4 weeks is not long enough to test any betting/trading system, A-B / Krauttgap is going to need at least 12 months worth of testing as this is more of a long term investment type system rather then a get rich quick. I must admit i have only been trading it for a few months so can not comment on its overall probability but so far up 226 point so cant complain, i will let everyone know my results after at least 6 months of testing

  196. tom42 says:

    @dertrader have you tried PATE – seems to work if you are prepared to.

  197. Tommy says:

    @ dertrader – learn to trade properly. Check out the PATe trading thread on here. It’s free and the rules and method are clearly laid out on the website.

    The amount of points/pips you’ve quoted above is appalling.

    I pull 500 plus pips a week trading just afternoons. That’s after any losses. I profit every week without fail.

    Put the work in to learn it and I assure you, you’ll be a very happy trader.



  198. dertrader says:

    Thanks for your replies tom42 and Tommy.

    Had only quickly checked out PATE before, but will now give it my full attention. Maybe see you over on that thread sometime soon.

  199. maskanikali says:

    Hi Tommy,
    I tried but could not get my head around PATe , guess is the stuff between my ears that just does not cut it. But Your post is intriguing – would you by any chance consider a private mentor-ship or even a signal service – paid of course – for we poor traders.

  200. crowtonian says:

    Hi guys, Tommy is absolutely right of course; no substitute for getting to grips with the mechanics of trading and maybe confine yourself to just 2 instuments and familiarise with their trading behaviour. Perhaps later it may be an idea to start a group on Skype where live trades can be posted. Tommy can be the Ringmaster for a princely monthly fee!!

  201. Tommy says:

    @maskanikali – I can’t charge for mentoring of someone else’s service…

    The method and info are actually Free.

    Look on the Pate website as Julie (the owner) runs a membership. She’ll mentor you with her daily advice emails if you need extra help. You’ll only need to join for 2 or 3 months then once you get the hang of it you can do it on your own.

    If you’re stuck with things just go on the Pate thread on here and we’ll try to help where we can.

    Once learnt, it really is a skill for life. You’ll get up Monday mornings knowing you’ll make money every week!

    @dertrader – Yep, see you on Pate thread.

    @crowtonian – How you doing? Not seen you around much lately. Hope you’re keeping well.


  202. GrumpyOldMan says:

    Thanks to Tommy, maxreturns and Triple top, I was going to post one of my very rare comments here but everything I was going to say has already been said by max et al.
    I have to say there is no such thing as a free lunch, buyer beware, etc. so it is hardly surprising that these products are promoted without too much scrutiny to keep the site running. It takes many hours of digging around threads like this to find some nuggets of truth. The ONLY fair way to beal with this problem would be a league table for money making schemes. Basic information and a level playing field to start such as £1000 starting bank 1st Jan would have yielded £X month by month, also level of interpretation involved or just copy paste. I for one have asked for this in the past if anyone else would like to see this or has another better option then post it here or see you on the PATe thread.

  203. Mike Pears says:

    Hi dertrader.

    Sorry for the delay in responding to your earlier query – I’ve not had access to the site for a while and have only seen your comments today. I guess that the minor differences are down to individual judgements about whether to trade when it’s a marginal decision and whether it’s worthwhile making the bet. You are correct about 19th September – my trade started at 1208 and ended at 1630 with a profit of 45 pts after commission. That was a marginal decision day.

    Apologies about the figures for 18th September which were wrong on here. Not sure how I did that – it was somehow cut and pasted incorrectly in haste using figures from a different trade. I agree with you – on that day it was stopped out at a loss of 52 pts and this made the week show a profit of 33 pts instead of that quoted. You will see all my figures when the full review is updated later this week (to week 20). The review is updated every four weeks and we’ll probably continue for a bit longer.

    A good day today by the way with a 53 pt profit on one day.

    Regarding the Stop Loss it would be interesting to see the effect on the performance of reducing it to say 30 pts. Now I’ve got 20 week’s live results I will go back and try this out and do a comparison. I’m also thinking of trying it on the Dow or the Nasdaq. If I can find the time I could back-check it for a few months and if I do I will report back on here.

  204. hotdeffender says:

    Thanks for the updates, its good to finally have different views from those that have tried it. It has backed my decision not to purchase this one. I might try the new code cracker usb from max Monroe and report on that one.

  205. dertrader says:

    Hi Mike

    Thanks for responding and clearing up that anomaly.

    Regarding the stop loss I did consider adjusting it to around 30 to 35 pts, (and adjusting other parameters such as increasing the entry gap) but decided to stick rigidly to the stated system during the trial period.

    So often the DAX would drift a few points the wrong way, but enough to trigger the trade, so ended up being stopped out.

    I have abandoned trying to use this system in any form (especially as I returned it), and am instead trying a system of my own.

    Out of curiosity I would be interested in any backtesting you do Mike using a lower stop loss (if you get the chance).

  206. Mike Pears says:

    Hi everyone,

    Two things :=

    (1) The A-B System (Krautgap) is going well at the moment. I’m now up to the middle of week 23 and following on from the results at the top of this page the update is :-

    Week 21 – profit of 58 pts to level stakes
    Week 22 – profit of 181 pts (a super week in volatile markets)
    Week 23 so far – profit of 54 pts.

    It’s now approaching a doubling of the bank using escalating stakes as on the spreadsheet. Next full update due above after week 24.

    (2) Hotdeffender – I’m about to start a full review on here of Max Monroe’s “Market Hacker Pro”. The usb etc arrived today so watch for a separate thread to appear on this site to monitor how I get on with it.

  207. Mike Pears says:

    Further update for A-B. It’s going very well at the moment. Week 23 ended at 88 pts profit which was the 7th consecutive winning week. In 23 weeks the starting bank has now been doubled using escalating stakes – not sensational but it’s making profit. So far it’s made approx. 58% of their stated target. Yesterday (October 27th) it made 71 pts in a trade lasting under an hour.

    Full update will be posted next week.

  208. Pete L says:

    Ok, here’s a question for you…

    I was really keen to find out if this £200/day A minus B DAX system worked after having it listed in one of Andrew Reynolds newletters (and flogged via streetwise) but here’s the thing..

    If MMR have tested it, and have the spread sheet to show us results it’s OBVIOUS it simply doesn’t work.

    Agreed? Yes?

    ..or at least you don’t get what’s advertised.

    Sooo.. my question is: Why is it that trading standards allow us lot to continually get mugged into buying these things when they don’t prove to be working when tested independently either by one or more people?


    What am I missing??!

    We’re continually never ever going to make any money if we can’t figure out why this is, nor who the heck we can trust.

    I’m not talking about streetwise or Reynolds making affiliate commissions. I’m talking about the owners not getting prosecuted. How come?

  209. MMR admin says:

    @Pete L

    To be fair your comment: “If MMR have tested it, and have the spread sheet to show us results it’s OBVIOUS it simply doesn’t work.” is a little wrong.

    Yes, it doesn’t make as much as the service claims it did in the promotional material and we have stated that in our review.

    But if you actually look at our spreadsheet and see the results posted in the comments by our reviewer Mike, we have actually made a profit with this.

    So it does work – it’s just not the “holy grail” it was promoted as being. But then nothing is.

    At the end of the day a profit is a profit and this is making a profit. At least, over the past 24 weeks it has done for our reviewer.


  210. Maynard says:

    @ Pete L, how can a vendor be prosecuted if he says “X system made Y profit in Z time” and, when you try it, it doesn’t? Surely you know that past performance is no guarantee of future performance?

  211. sn39 says:

    Hi i brought A-B some months ago tested it for a few weeks sticking to the rules.But i too found the losing weeks and lost £400 which made me give it up. i think its fair to say its ok system but a bit of a risk. i did not return for refund as i do believe in John Piper. i will also say i brought Johns tunnel trader which is so good and easy to use and i am in profit.I would like to hear about Max Monroes market hacker pro and his fast track to forex success. also not a full time trader yet so if anyone needs a carpenter my quotes are free and the work is guaranteed.

  212. andrewantiga says:

    hi there should be a free system called dax 25 on the web

  213. andrewantiga says:

    hi where is this PATe thread? I am I missing something?

  214. Bear1 says:


    Just type PATe in the search facility and then look for “Julie Hatch”

  215. magtino says:

    I got an email yesterday from Michelle about this
    programme and it said there was only 75 places
    available,today I got a second email saying I could
    get a 30 free trial.
    It looks like they are struggling to find 75 buyers,
    how do they give you a free trial without telling you
    how the system works,you could then cancel the Direct
    Debit before the first payment was due.

  216. gerry747 says:

    Have a look at this, suppose to be knocking £100 off the the price, so you only pay £397 if your a farmer. Yet it’s £375 on here, someone’s telling porkies!

  217. traderjack says:

    This is getting plugged everywhere this week, had 4 emails about it already. Problem is, it isn’t very good ! Been there and tried it and lost a packet. Surprised to see MMR promoting it however when most of our reviews are negative.

  218. Paul T says:

    One’s telling porkies, the other’s tilling for porkers.

  219. maxreturns says:

    Of course what Michelle doesn’t say in her latest emails to get you to buy it so she and her colleagues get their commission is that to make the £198 a week at stakes of £10 you’d need a bank of £10,000 which is highly unrealistic for most MMR readers.

    Michelle also doesn’t tell you that on a more realistic bank of £500 you would be making £9.90 per week profit from a product costing £375! That’s a lot of weeks before you have paid for the product and are actually in profit!

    No mention either that the system lost 291 pts March to May this year which would have lost you £2910!

    Unfortunately in my opinion MMR has lost its credibility and independance….focus just seems to be on making sales at any price.

  220. traderjack says:

    Maxreturns, that’s how review sites work. They earn money from us signing up to what they advise us to. It doesn’t mean the product is any good, but because we trust them we sign up.

    You will notice that all the review sites advise joining either their own products or ones that they all seem affiliated with.

    Gone of the days people advise you to sign up for something because it works, it’s all about the companies making money not the punters.

    We are just cash cows in their eyes.

  221. Mike Pears says:

    The review has now finished after Week 28 but I am continuing to use it so I will update my results here every few weeks. To confirm – this is an independent review done by me without any interference from anyone. I actually use it on a daily basis. To level stakes :-

    Week 29 (w/c 1/12) – Level 0.00 pts
    Week 30 (w/c 8/12) – Level 0.00 pts
    Week 31 (w/c 15/12) – profit of 75 pts

    Hope that helps.

  222. Mike Pears says:

    Further updates on progress – the work continues !
    To level stakes :-

    Week 32 (w/c 22/12) – Level 0.00 pts
    Week 33 (w/c 29/12) – profit of 75 pts
    Week 34 (w/c 5/1) – profit of 23 pts
    Week 35 (w/c 12/1) – profit of 153 pts

    To be continued….

  223. leeswinbrook says:

    Trevor Lee
    January 18,2015

    Keep up the good work Mike, Im in there with you, good to have a reference.

  224. Mike Pears says:

    More updates on progress :-

    To level stakes:-
    Week 36 – (w/c 19/1) – profit of 54 pts
    Week 37 – (w/c 26/1) – profit of 106 pts
    Week 38 – (w/c 2/2) – profit of 57 pts
    Week 39 – (w/c 9/2) – profit of 11 pts

    Starting bank of £1,000 using 0.1% increasing stakes – bank now £3,885.

    Will continue.


    I’ll give it a miss at the moment,keep it coming and i’ll see what turns up

  226. bear says:

    I am seriously considering having a good run at this as I am now fully retired.
    Would I be able to run this from an IPad from anywhere in the world ??.. ( making allowances for time differences naturally!) as I love to travel and cruise, and am willing to take a punt with £1,000 to start + plus the purchase price, and assuming I get a similar run as Mike Pears then I would seriously look at increasing the bank to £5,000.
    I also have the discipline to follow the staking rules as this is plainly paramount according to Mike Pears!!

    Anyone fancy replying ……or is this the muse of an annoying GrandPa with time and some money to play with??
    Come back…?

  227. rfhaines says:

    If this is as easy as A minus B, why do I need an 82 page manual and 5 hours of CDs?

    It’s also worth remembering, with any of these systems that require you to open a trading account, such as Forex or spread betting, the promoter receives a healthy commission if you sign up through their link. So they make money even if they have to refund.

  228. dertrader says:

    bear – This thread is very quiet now, hence the lack of replies.

    I would not recommend using an ipad to trade from anywhere in the world. To make this system work, you need to be connected every single weekday to trade (and at around 8am UK time, then maybe adjust trade at 11am, then towards end of trading day). In other words, you need a reliable connection, and focus. If not, you can be sure that the days you are able to trade will be losers, and when you cannot trade, they will be winners.

    Besides, if I were lucky enough to be able to travel and cruise, I don’t think trading would be very relaxing as any trades need monitoring. But we are all different, maybe that’s your idea of relaxation!

  229. bear says:

    Thanks dertrader Discipline is plainly a “given” in all this, and I am grateful for your input!

    Why should this thread be quiet if it is as successful as promoted?

    Either folk are doing fine and don’t want to brag, or it has fallen on its face?

    Which…in your opinion?

  230. dertrader says:

    bear, if you read my comments posted here in Sept & Oct 2014 you will see I personally did not find it anywhere near as successful as claimed when I trialled the system. So if you happen to trial it in a bad month, your experience will be negative, and visa versa.

    Mike Pears who tested it here for MMR over the long term seemed to do quite well but please note that I did pick up at least one error in his calculations, which in fairness he admitted to, but were there others that were not picked up?

    So I would say the jury is out on this system, but would welcome comments from others who have tried it recently.

  231. Jack Review says:

    Hi Dertrader, I have tried it since Jan2015 and most of the time no trade was triggered according to the criteria. For those 16 times that were triggered, I hit 6 stop losses which gave me an overall loss so far. I will give this system more time before I say if it works but so far the results have not been very positive.

  232. dertrader says:

    Hi Jack

    Sorry to hear that, though it does match the kind of results I had.

    As my experience of forex and other indices’s grows, I am increasingly inclined to ditch the interday systems like this one (which are subject to so much market “noise”), and go for the daily and upwards time periods as the signals seem more reliable.

  233. ennnceee says:

    Do you have current stats Mr Pears?

  234. fraserj70 says:

    Other than bonus bagging and profit max does anything work on MMR? any system that produces half of what it promises would do me

  235. graham says:

    fraserj70, we are cross threading, check out Hrr dog lays and Eachway Sniper

  236. jackie1 says:

    Hi Graham

    Where can I find Hrr dog lays, I would be intrested to have a look at the system

  237. Mike Pears says:

    O.k. – here are my updates on the A-B System up to my trading week 51. These are all to level stakes.

    Week 40 – w/c 16/2 – loss of 16 pts
    Week 41 – w/c 23/2 – profit of 37 pts
    Week 42 – w/c 2/3 – loss of 2 pts
    Week 43 – w/c 9/3 – profit of 80 pts
    Week 44 – w/c 16/3 – profit of 37 pts
    Week 45 – w/c 23/3 – profit of 75 pts
    Week 46 – w/c 30/3 – profit of 38 pts
    Week 47 – w/c 6/4 – loss of 51 pts
    Week 48 – w/c 13/4 – profit of 62 pts
    Week 49 – w/c 20/4 – profit of 30 pts
    Week 50 – w/c 27/4 – profit of 144 pts
    Week 51 – w/c 4/5 – loss of 45 pts

    Total Level stakes profit is 1,821 pts which averages 36.42 per week (about half of their initial claim). A £1,000 starting bank using 0.1% stakes, now stands at £5,569.

    I cannot understand how “JackReview” could only find 16 trades over nearly three months as I had 35 trades in the period Jan 2015 to April 2nd 2015 and there were 7 losing days. It’s important to stress that since finishing the official review I have tweaked the rules very slightly in the light of experience and to suit my own requirements. This may make my results slightly different from others – these are my own trading figures from the system. In particular I don’t make any amendments at 11.00 a.m. and I widened the “entry” margin to 13 pts. As can be seen from my results it certainly works for me and in case anyone is suspicious I must stress that I am totally independent and have no connections with the publishers. I say this only because I fully understand that we are all sceptics due to the rubbish that abounds.

    If you are interested, I am currently undertaking two other trading reviews for this website and both are doing very well. “Fx Foundations” is already on the site and “Turnaround Trader” will appear in the next few days.

  238. jwhite8359 says:

    Hi Mike

    When are you planning updating the FX Foundations review?


  239. mikethebee says:

    Anybody running this at them moment how has you last few weeks been?
    Mine: last four weeks and today a 53% win rate losses on six trades five of which were full point stop losses.
    The course says this may happen once every couple of months not five times in a month.
    I know talk long term but at the return odds it will take ages to make these losses back even without anymore total wipe outs.
    Question: am I doing something wrong or is this the returns other users are getting at this time?

  240. Jack Review says:

    Hi Mikethebee,

    You are not doing anything wrong because that is what I have been seeing too. It was a false claim that the stop loss only happens once every 2 months. Today is 22Jun2015 and there was at least 1 stop loss every week in the last few weeks. Remember that every stop loss costs 52 points while the average gain when the gap closes is between 10 to 30 points. It means that every stop loss during the week can possibly wipe out the whole week’s profit.

    Although Mike Pears’s results look promising, he did tweak the system by widening the entry point to 13 points. If the positive results are gain from modifying the system, they should not be counted because he should only evaluate what has been taught as “A-B system” instead of “my own version of A-B system”

  241. graham1954 says:

    Tend to agree with Mike and Jack above. I started live trading in June and couldn’t have picked a worse month.

    Using an IG demo platform I backtested it exactly to the rules and got these results (I left out Fridays as the vendor adds too many stipulations: careful of an up gap, holidays etc, and that put me off): July -44pts, Aug -60, Sept -38, Oct +419, Nov -117, Dec +39, Jan +313, Feb -9, Mar +39, Apr +112, May +78 and June to-date (26th) -186 (I think Greece is to blame). Total: +546pts Mon-Thur, about +45pts per month, so it’s still working years after launch.

    I’d like to know what platform Mike Pears is using (MT4?) at IG, as that may explain earlier differences (such as on 13 Nov, demo entry point 9261 -2 = 9259. That resulted in -52pts, but Mike’s entry point was 9261, so just missing the stop for +54pts!). As for his tweaking, that’s OK only if he tells us how and why, or gives original results as well, otherwise it just adds to the confusion.

    Having said that, it’s good that he’s still going to the trouble of showing his results (and his FX Foundation reviews looks tempting).

    It would also help if the vendor displayed results on his website.

  242. cd5000 says:

    I see Lombard Publishing is selling this system called
    A Take Away B Price £297 It sounds like the same System
    the cost is far to much for most people

  243. geoffhead says:

    I have just rung Lombard to confirm whether or not it is the same Dax system, IT IS.

  244. paulnaylor4 says:

    Hi all. It is now the end of September and this thread has been silent from July. I have just ordered A-B and would be interested in any feedback from previous users as well as new users like me.

  245. djferrick says:

    I see this is being hyped by MMR email shot. Anyone still using?

  246. ian5999 says:

    Was wondering that myself. Guaranteed money according to the MMR email.

    Any input guys please?

  247. Tijs says:

    Same here, would be interested to hear some new updates and other opinions

  248. baggy212 says:

    I’ve just started running this system. I’m using ADVFN to get my data (as recommended in the manual), and as I’m not live trading, it’s all I should need for now. However, I’ve run into a problem.

    The ADVFN site gives various options for viewing the data. One is a Java generated graph and the other is an HTML graph. For Friday 22/4/16, the Java chart gives a Close of 10373.5, whilst the HTML chart gives 10364.67. How can I possibly use ADVFN if the data is inconsistent? Both charts are set to Intraday, bars, 5 minutes.

    Any help would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks.

  249. Steven Davies says:

    Only just noticed, the reviewer above sets a trade order at a certain level which could be triggered at any point during the day.

    There’s one or two dates in the review that suggest ‘a trade was triggered at 11:10am’… but the system rules say:

    Check the charts at 8:00AM.

    By 8:05 you’ll know if there’s a trade.

    If there isn’t you walkway.

    So basically you either buy/sell at 8:05am or it’s a no-trade day…

    I wonder if the results would have been better or worse had you followed the exact rules?

    By the way, I’ve just started this myself. Up by 56 points in first week.

  250. Steven Davies says:

    I may be wrong with the above after all. Just re-read the system rules…


  251. Tijs says:

    This is still being advertised by More Money Review, would love to hear some extra opinions or a new review since there are so many contradictory comments on here

  252. PeterFenton says:

    What is interesting is that reading this review I come to the conclusion that it doesn’t really work.

    jacks review in Apr 15 pretty much suggested this.

    So why would MMR be promoting the product now.

    Has it changed in some way that now makes it profitable ?

  253. cheshvan says:

    good question. hope they answer us

  254. baggy212 says:

    Not had a reply to this yet – PLEASE help if you can:

    I’ve just started running this system. I’m using ADVFN to get my data (as recommended in the manual), and as I’m not live trading, it’s all I should need for now. However, I’ve run into a problem.

    The ADVFN site gives various options for viewing the data. One is a Java generated graph and the other is an HTML graph. For Friday 22/4/16, the Java chart gives a Close of 10373.5, whilst the HTML chart gives 10364.67. How can I possibly use ADVFN if the data is inconsistent? Both charts are set to Intraday, bars, 5 minutes.

    Any help would be gratefully appreciated. Thanks.

    • jason9032 says:

      Hi baggy212

      use yahoo finance to get your data. all you need is the closing price just after 4:30 uk time. Then next day note the opening price on you broker platform just after 8am (UK) if there is a gap more then 11 you have a trade subject to the other rule. hope this helps

  255. Emailonly says:

    Got a mailshot the other day about this and have read the entire thread.

    Is anyone using this at the moment, and if so how is it doing?

  256. PEPPIDOG says:

    Well it seems feedback on here is as rare as rocking horse poo. Agora are really pushing this now and it would be great to hear back from anyone with knowledge of how this is doing for them. But they all seem to have gone missing. Now either they are making so much money with this that they can’t be arsed to visit this site and impart their wisdom and results.. or …. the system is just crap

  257. myreview says:

    I am getting emails about this recently and now the price has gone down to £197, so they may be getting desperate for buyers.

    Of course they make it sound so simple – subtract one number from another -place a bet – see how much you’ve won.

    Won’t work for me as I’m at work during the day and the system works until 4.30 pm.

  258. Steven Davies says:

    In short, this system WORKS. Been trading it for 4 months and made over 600 points profit.

    It takes time to digest, you need to follow the rules strictly (including adjusting your trade at 11am each morning) but ultimately this will make you money.

    Buy it, paper trade for 3 months or so, and see if it’s for you.

  259. Keith says:

    Just had a mailshot of this A minus B System from Streetwise and the price is set at £375 but I notice from ‘myreview’s comment above that it was going for £197 around September 17th of this year.
    Was this from Streetwise or someone else?

    Steven….Are you still making money from this system?

    Baggy212….Have you sorted the problem now?

  260. PEPPIDOG says:

    @ Steven Davies says “Buy it, paper trade for 3 months or so, and see if it’s for you.”

    So you are advising that someone should pay out £375, paper trading for 3 months, therfore not now being able to get back the £375 money back guarantee?

    Paper trade and see if it’s for you?… Seriously ??

    Are you an affiliate by any chance or just a mate of John Piper?

  261. Steven Davies says:


    I am neither. Just someone looking to make some extra money, much like most who visit MMR, and have found a system that works long term. This one.

    If someone can’t invest £375 in a product that won an award in 2014, has impressive reviews across the net, and is by a well-established and respected trader (JP), then I wonder what their intentions are. If they’re looking for a freebie product that works, they will be searching for a long, long time.

    I’m aware there are some crooks out there, but JP is not one of them. A-B/Krautgap been profitable for the past 6 years (I have the backdated stats) and makes money. Simple as that.

  262. PEPPIDOG says:

    Hi Steven

    I think that £375 is still quite an investment for some and that we all come on here to get as much feedback as we can from those that are successful in using the system

    Unfortunately there are not, as you claim, that many review that shed a positive light on this. Having said that, by the same token there are not so many negative reviews either. There seem to be a lot of people asking questions but not many answers seem to be forthcoming

    I have read some have been successful after tweaking the system in various ways. This really is not something that should be needed as if I were to pay this amount of money I would expect it to work as it states and not need it to be “tinkered” with

    I am glad however that it is profitable for you and wish you continued success with it. Thanks for your post

  263. DRSTOCH says:

    As peppidog says if you tweak a system it is no longer the one you bought!

  264. Steven Davies says:

    I haven’t tweaked the system and am in profit month on month… the ‘tweaks’ are covered in the final chapter of this system, and actively encouraged by JP.

    Without giving too much away, it’s about learning which days not to trade, reading the market, and reducing your stop loss where possible. The basis of the method remains the same.

  265. Scorpion says:

    I started reading this thread about three days ago and in my mind was going to buy this system and give it a go albeit with a bank of £1,000.
    What I have gained from this thread is that there have been some good successes and some people have struck out. The system obviously needs some tweaking but that is like lots of stuff, and you cannot do it unless you try.Also you will not learn the tweaks if you are constantly looking for a refund date. Best not bother.
    If however you achieve a return of more than 100% in a year you are outperforming 99% of regulated fund managers. There fore I see this as an investment and not as an income producer. I accept that it does take time, but as I am “working retired” then it’s not stealing time that i could use on anything else.
    So I guess it’s a system to pay for a good holiday every year and cannot be relied on to pay for the supermarket on a weekly basis.Buyers just have to work out where they are on the scale. I will probably purchase after Christmas in the interim i am going to spend some time on Julie’s PATE system which I was reminded of on this thread for which i am grateful to whomever mentioned it.I know you don’t make any money out of that one michelle but it has made me happy 🙂
    I will let you know how it goes next year and Merry christmas too all!

    • jason9032 says:

      I have been trading this system for the last few months and so far so good. I have made 223 points profit so far. know where near the advertised profit but still good enough for me as i know i can increase stake size in order to make more profit. This is a very simple set and forget system that should net a long term consistent profit. much better then leaving your money in the bank earning nothing!

  266. Amiliano says:

    Hi Folks,
    I have not written anything on this site for quite some time now. I occasionally peep in to check on racing systems that look interesting , but that’s all. Now Michele emailed me this system flyer , so I got interested. But at the end of the add it says : “This system is only available for UK residents” so not much use for me. But I can buy the “KRAUT” witch is the same thing , but differently priced. What I noticed at the Kraut is that John Piper , the originator of the system says he uses it in conjunction with what he calls the Xtreme Stop System , both to enter and exit the market. Any of you have experience with the Xtreme Stop ?

  267. jason9032 says:

    I have been trading this system for the last few months and so far so good. I have made 223 points profit so far. know where near the advertised profit but still good enough for me as i know i can increase stake size in order to make more profit. This is a very simple set and forget system that should net a long term consistent profit. much better then leaving your money in the bank earning nothing!

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