Football Bank Builder Review

| August 6, 2012 | 1,201 Replies

Product Name: Football Bank Builder

Author:  Matt Fisher and Andrew David

Company Name & Contact Details:
ADK Publishing via Canonbury Publishing Ltd
Unit 3 Hainault Works,
Hainault Road,
Luittle Heath,
Tel  02085970181
email: or


How would you like to turn £1,000 into £3,138.43 in 12 months and into an  amazing £30,912.68 in just 36 months? All from a tiny 2 points profit a month! 

Price: £97.00

Money Back Guarantee: 30 day conditional refund offer. (If using system for 7  consecutive days and loss made will refund fully although order form implies  unconditional.)

What Do You Get?

– Football laying system in 2.5 goals market plus bonus system  and free copy of Winning on Betfair for Dummies if UK/Eire resident.

Where To Buy:

Brief Summary?  

Football Bank Builder by Matt Fisher is a self selection system identifying lays in the Over/Under 2.5 goals football market. It is a system that operates all year round.

How Much Money Do I Need To Get Started? 

Suggested £400 but most examples  based on £1,000. Bank is based on 20 points.

How Much Money Can I Make?  

Aim is 10% compound increase on bank monthly. Loss of 5.75 points (28.47% of bank) seen in trial period.

How Much Time Will I Need To Make This Work?

Minutes daily to select games –  suggested best time to place bets is just before kick off.

Will I Need Any Equipment To Do This? 

PC and Internet connection plus Betting Exchange account (Betfair recommended).

Value For Money? 

Not on evidence of trial.

Quality Of Customer Service?  

Good – efficient response to telephone enquiry.


I had to do a double take when I read the author’s name as I thought that Matt Houghton and Glenn Fisher had somehow been amalgamated – apologies for such a thought! In fact the source of this product is the same publisher as Little Acorns, Other Peoples Money and the Legacy and Saver systems which are all reviewed.

By the way take care if buying this because when the order is completed you are taken to an up sell screen which appears to give you no option but to buy to complete your order whereas in fact the confirmation and download link is sent by email. This was a little bit misleading.

The manual is 27 pages long with good consideration given to beginners although I felt there was an over emphasis on accepting that your initial betting bank should be treated as lost and you are trying to recover it. I am sure we all agree that a betting bank should be cash you can afford to lose but it seemed to me that the user was being programmed into accepting potential losses for longer than might be sensible. (The cynics amongst you might even argue it was aiming to get you to persevere with the system beyond the time when the guarantee period has expired.)

In fact the system itself is covered in just 3 pages of the manual and is certainly simple to understand and operate. The chosen market has just 2 outcomes and ascertaining that the criteria are met is very straightforward even allowing for the incorrect screenshot shown which sets out how to establish the main criterion for the process. Poor proof reading but not a major problem as the written part of the manual is correct.

A great deal of space is devoted to staking plans that may be applied when using the system and the information about compounding shown in the marketing is repeated.

It is suggested that by targeting 3 matches per day the system will produce between 2 and 5 points profit per month at level stakes which with a 10 point bank is a worthwhile target. It is suggested that stakes be recalculated at the end of each month to reflect the bank (although never dropping below the initial stake level). Two other plans are offered including a strong suggestion that a Fibonacci plan would be ideally suited to this system.

It is recommended that bets should be placed just before kick off so that the market is the best reflection of the true odds of the game. In practice you will research the market and select potential matches which may or may not then qualify at kick off. Depending on the spread of the times you will need to be able to place bets at varying times, the suggestion being that most will be doing this weekends and evenings and so it should not present a problem.

For the purposes of the review I have selected matches from the highest league in any given country and tried to achieve the 3 per day average. This involved around 10 minutes of initial selection time and then checking back at various times of the day. For example on 1 Saturday I needed to check at 12.30, 3.00, 4.30, 5.00, 6.00, 6.45 and 7.45 and this resulted in 3 matches qualifying.

Will probably be easier when the full European league season is up and running again but readers will see that the time spent whilst short in actual terms could be significant and need a very understanding partner!

We are advised that the average lay price is 1.82 for selections and my experience over 51 matches has been that it was 1.86. The number of qualifying selections has varied greatly from day to day and has averaged 2.3 matches so far. I expect this to increase when the season is fully underway. Of the 51 matches 30 have actually been losing lays and after an initial jump into profit the trend has been downwards since.

A loss of just nearly 6 points has been seen but at 5% of your bank per point this is more significant than it sounds. I have stuck with the recommended minimum bet of 5% of the original bank although if fully progressive staking were applied the loss would be reduced a little. Any confidence gained when looking at the system initially has been somewhat undermined and the profit target seems a long way off.

Obviously the time for the trial is too short to be conclusive although a 50+ match sample is starting to be significant. We will keep monitoring for another month and update the results at that time but at this stage I could not recommend purchase.

You can see a full breakdown of my results here:

Football Bank Builder Results

Update 02/10/2012:

With the advent of the proper football season I have concentrated on the higher class leagues for matches but there has been no real difference in performance with a 2 point improvement on the bank but still an overall 4 point loss. The strike rate for the 91 selections made is 45% and nothing seen to date encourages me to think it is likely to improve sufficiently to turn in a worthwhile profit. The spreadsheet has been updated to reflect the additional trial results. I still could not recommend purchase but will carry on for a further month just in case.

You can see a full breakdown of my results here:

Football Bank Builder Results

Final Update 24/10/2012:

Another month but no improvement in the situation – indeed the bank has now reduced to less than half its starting point. Selections now total 136 with a strike rate of 42%. Real time users can have little confidence that the system as sold will produce a profit for them and we may now fully understand the advice offered by the vendor at the start of his manual regarding acceptance of losses. Not recommended.

You can see a full breakdown of my results here:

Football Bank Builder Results


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Category: Betting, Betting Systems, Football, Football Betting Systems

Comments (1,201)

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  1. SlickSid says:

    In the main, I am finding more than 3 per day – sometimes over 10! Can’t seem to get in touch with Matt to ask if he uses any selection criteria other than the 2 he talks about in the manual. Very hit and miss in terms of results – twice my bank has been halved by a string of losers!

  2. SlickSid says:

    Don’t know if Matt is still monitoring this thread, but it would be great to hear if he uses any tweaks to the system.

  3. Frithjof says:

    I received an email from Matt Houghton today, suggesting I purchase Football Bankbuilder from Agora. In theory, the method looks just fine, but the 136-selection review above tells a different story. Why would the marketing surrounding this be at such odds with the practical experience? And if the method really is questionable, why are Canonbury and now Agora spending time promoting it?

  4. jacko567 says:

    can anyone tell me how you go about being refunded for this service?

  5. Frithjof says:

    Hi jacko567,

    I think if you just ‘phone Canonbury on the number above, they will tell you what’s required. I’ve bought stuff from them in the past, some of which I’ve kept and some I’ve returned, and I’ve never had any serious trouble getting my money back where necessary. In fairness to them, there aren’t many you can say that about.

  6. jacko567 says:

    This system really does not work, for the price i paid for it , its really not worth it , i trade on the exchanges, and i have a better system i made up myself, and i profit from it, i will be contacting agora first to see if i can get refunded, then i will ask canonbury to see if they want to reply to this and trial it.

  7. Frithjof says:

    Good luck with your trading method. jacko, and please let us all know how you get on!

  8. jacko567 says:

    Well i requested a refund from agora today, so awaiting reply,will let you know frithjof how i get on, meanwhile my system does profit very slowly at the minute, but i am still tweaking it. its not that hard anyway to go through betfairs in play prices on different things to trial a system yourself, you only have to check stats to make a system up, anyway if i do have a losing day,its only minimal.

  9. mathsman says:

    i must be doing something wrong with this then as i’ve made
    a profit of between 4 – 9 points every month since july last year!!
    This was using the stking sequence with a losing run of only 6
    throughout that time. Although i concur with the down period you
    had using level stakes as i run 2 banks, 1 with staking sequence
    and 1 with level stakes, although the level stakes has pulled round
    now into profit with a 12 point profit now, but slow going so i
    prefer the staking sequence. I was also sent an update and that has
    improved the monthly points profit by around 20% over last 3
    months. Just my thoughts but i use it everyday now on only 3
    matches a day. Onwards & upwrds with this one and despite
    comments above i love it as its very low risk!

  10. petermans23 says:

    Any more news or any experiences from any member here using Football Bank Builder? There has been so many different comments regarding this system. I don´t think I have ever read so various opinions about any football betting system before. It differs from some people thinking it is a great system when you follow the suggested staking sequence from the system telling about very positive results. And then there are a lot of people saying a lot negative things about and results about the level staking.
    Would be great to hear some more comments regarding this system and your results using it.

  11. Wileyhog says:

    Thinking about buying this system but with the negative responses here i am having second thoughts about it….
    Are all the negative people doing all that was said to do??.If this is a regular laying system it should be at least 50/50 and with a bit of research down to 70/30 in favour………..
    Cheers Wiley

  12. greety says:

    I was tempted to buy but having seen the reviews on here, no thanks.
    Agora/canonbury are still peddling rubbish even after all these years. Have they ever sold anything that the majority actually make money from?
    Thanks for the honest reviews on here.

  13. brokebookie says:

    I like this one a lot and it just seems to work even on a weekend only you can skim around 3 – 5 points from afternoon and evening football.I agree you can get different results from user to user but i’ve tried all angles and staking methods and they all make a profit, some more than others hence why some get better results than others. Cant see how it can fail for anyone who follows it through with whatever of the methods shown in the book. **As a footnote it does include a really decent lucky 15 method where i was one result away from £4,200 but still bagged £260 for a £15 by getting 2 out of 4 correct! If i got all 4 then it would have netted a cool £63,000!! Well we can all dream:)

  14. gerry747 says:

    brokebookie – Good to read a report on a system that someone actually has and uses. Instead of the usual “it’s gone quiet on here” good luck mate.

  15. gerry747 says:

    Hi, guys would you take another look at this football laying system. Firstly to be fair to the reviewer, it does state on the site you can do this to level stakes, which he used. Having said that, this is not a system that works best at level staking. It’s strongly advised to use the “Fibonacci” staking method and believe me, it works!…. I know.

    There are those who say, any system worth it’s salt, should only prove itself to level staking. But there is a place for progressive staking if you have good money management and you have the odds and stats going back years on your side. Just think about the “Little Acorns” one of the best laying systems going using progressive staking, I use it myself, also remember this comes from the same stable, (no pun intended) 🙂 so it has pedigree.

    OK, take a look at the reviewers results page above on excel. Count how many times he had a losing run of 5, ONCE!. I believe he hit 4 losers 3 times and the rest are lower. He got nowhere near the full cycle of “Fibonacci” Even Matt and Andrew say, (co authors) they doubt if you will ever have a full losing cycle using “Fibonacci” staking, and I agree with them.

    Now let me say straight off, with the reviewers strike rate and his selections using Fibonacci, I would have made a hell of a profit! I have been doing this for sometime on a very similar set up to Matt Fisher’s. Now I must be careful here to be fair to Matt, don’t want to give the game away.

    Right, in the system there are basically two rules to follow, it’s easy. Now as I said I’ve been doing my own thing with this so to speak before this even came on the market. As you can see from the results, you are laying in the under/over 2.5 goals market, simple! Now the reviewer states he used the higher class leagues where he could. Now here is where we start to differ.

    You are either laying in the under, so you want goals, I find by going into the lesser leagues, like Japan, Mexico, South America, etc, etc, goals seem to fly in all the time. Now laying in the over you don’t want goals, so I find the higher class leagues perform better with better back four in the team.

    Now I must say, of the two rules you have to follow, for the life of me I can’t see why you need one of them. I certainly don’t use it, but maybe Matt has stats going back quite sometime showing a better strike rate using it. And for the newbies, just remember guys, when you lose, your loss is smaller than your stake because you are laying at odds on.

    I apologise if as I write everything is not in order of sequence, I’m trying to remember as I write and things keep popping into my head, so please forgive me as I want to give you as much info as possible.

    I started doing this about 4 years ago, I thought with such low odds (odds on) and only two outcomes possible, it’s got to be worth a try when you see how unpredictable football results can be.

    I started laying 10pence bets using Betsender to just see if it works, and by hell it does. Yep remember guys, you can lay silly pence using a bot instead of the £2 minimum on Betfair just to try it out.

    OK going back to the above comments by the reviewer, if you can hit a 42% strike rate (it’s usually higher) like he did and used a correct staking plan, you WILL make money. I’ve looked at a few review sites having a go at this. Matt Houghton on “Betting Rant” gave it a go. It was not until he was three quarters the way through his review, that Andrew David told him, your not using the best staking method.

    I can’t understand them, they tell you the best staking method to use, then just ignore the fact! I’ve had dealings with Andrew David, you couldn’t find a nicer bloke. No B/S with him, if you want a refund it’s there. Also Matt Fisher has a good reputation.

    I looked at other review sites on this, to be honest guys, talk about “thicko’s” at least some did well with this. Don’t where some of them get there reviewers from, but I must not be rude, eh? Michelle. 🙂

    Anyway, as I said, been doing it for about four years now, started with 10 pence stakes now do £10 lays, that’s enough for me without going silly. Profit I hear you ask? over £20K and that’s nearly all done on a bot most days, but I mustn’t talk about that!… 🙂

  16. gerry747 says:

    Hi, just to give you a bit more info on this product. I’ll try to tell you my selection criteria without giving away the rules Matt sets out.

    Firstly I look down the Betfair list of games being played on the day and find ones that fit only one rule of Matts system. I don’t bother with the other rule, also find it gives me more games to bet on.


    Here is another website you might find useful, it shows leagues around the world high score and low score teams. Go into the league statistics page.

    I suppose some of you might be wondering how I know about Matt’s system without purchasing it. Well simple, I pinched it off our mad football betting guy, he buys everything on football, Steve Davidson loves him.

    He was a bit peeved when he found out I could have given him something very similar for free, but he’s a happy bunny now because he’s doing well with this.

  17. MMR admin says:

    @Gerry – I will try and can get another review of this done using the Fibbonacci staking plan that Andrew says is the best.

    But you bring up a good issue there Gerry in your line:

    “There are those who say, any system worth it’s salt, should only prove itself to level staking. But there is a place for progressive staking if you have good money management and you have the odds and stats going back years on your side.”

    What does everyone else think about this? Head over to the Is Gambling Immoral thread and give us your thoughts.


  18. gerry747 says:

    Thanks Michelle, think that would be good!

  19. gerry747 says:

    Kaylan – Hi, you don’t have to go scouring the threads, it’s this one. I can’t believe no one is taking any interest in this. Only this week I made £170 using this method. It would have been more but I don’t always have time to keep looking for matches. I put them into a bot as many as I can find and just reset it everyday.

    There’s even a 30 day refund if you try it for a week and not happy, you get your money back. I’ve never been refused with Canonbury, they are a decent company to deal with, especially with Andrew David.

    I see by some of the comments above, a few were put off by the review. If they looked again, they would see by the reviewers staking he was not doing what was advised.

    I tell you, in my opinion this is one of the best little systems on MMR, it’s easy to do, your laying at odds on and the stats going back years shows you will make money.

    It’s a pity the reviewer got it wrong, members should look again with an open mind and you would see, staking correctly his selections, (though not the best) would have made a good profit. imo.

  20. kaylan says:

    Hi Gerry
    Good to see you posting again.
    Thanks for the info on this site (nearly missed your post) I will take a close look at it.

  21. Paul T says:

    I think I’ll have a look too. I was wondering if GERRY747 was the same as gerry747, only with added doughnuts?

  22. centaur says:

    If you go to Canonbury it costs £97 but there’s 30 days refund policy. If you go to it is £70 (Steve Davidson) but no refund.


  23. gerry747 says:

    Paul T – Hi, don’t know what really happened, there was a problem, Michelle fixed it, just appeared in capitals.
    You’ve just reminded me, promised someone some doughnuts!

    MOD note: Sorry I will amend Gerry’s name so it is lower case. My mistake when updating his account.

  24. tom42 says:


    GeRrY747 what was that all about? As you and other reviewers have said there are only two rules of which one appears to be redundant.

  25. gerry747 says:

    tom- there are two rules in Matt’s system, can’t really say much more or I will be in trouble. Just that I can’t see the reason for one of them. Sorry not much help I know.

  26. gerry747 says:

    brokebookie – Have a think about this, as we are laying on odds below evens, we know our strike rate is usually below the 50% rate. So the backing side of the bet will nearly always be above 50% mark. This is what I’ve been doing on what is virtually the same as Footy B/B.

    I back both the lay and the back using Fib or recovery on Betsender. You can’t lose, but the stakes can get a bit scary especially on the back bet. But your strike rate should always be better than the lay because your betting against the fav odds.

    But you can overcome the high stakes because you can bet below minimum £2 using the bot. What’s more interesting now, you now have Revelation which should make it even better. You really can’t lose, just plan your stakes, don’t get greedy and you win everyday.

    Sounds fantastic yes! have we found the holy grail at last? Am I off my rocker, just give it a try mate, use little stakes, see for yourself. I said before I made over 20K in four years doing this, just didn’t say I backed and layed. With revelation, you could be onto a retirement plan, why do you think I’m so interested in it? 🙂

  27. gerry747 says:

    brokebookie – Lets go into a little more detail, take another look at that reviewers results for FBB in excel. Now we know he only had a losing run of 5 ONCE! so in Fib your just over halfway in the cycle. Now in the backing side, he hit 3 winning bets (lays) 3 times only. That’s even better for us on our backing side, we are well under halfway in the Fib cycle. Is it all beginning to register now mate, you really can’t lose at this.

    Now just think what you can do with an even better staking method like Revelation? Remember you can reduce your stakes to pennies if you want to using a bot. Everyone has a different comfort zone, but you can make a hell of a lot of cash with this, if you use your brain.

    That guy did about a 132 selections with a 42% strike rate for laying at basically level stakes compounding at 5%, what a waste, but he didn’t realise to be fair. He was actually sitting on a little gold mine if he just worked it out. It’s not rocket science, there is only two outcomes. One of your bets has to win every time. I could certainly have turned his selections into a couple of grand profit, albeit with slightly higher stakes.

    Remember what Andrew David said, the stats going back years are on your side, and he’s right. This also works well with the “Little Acorns”

    OK, now at times my bot won’t always place the bets, but it does have Fibonacci for both laying and backing. I put the games in manually using two instances of Betsender, same games on both. One set for backing, the other for laying. I just press bet now if it doesn’t trigger itself. Yes it does require you to be watching, seeing all goes well. It’s not really a set and forget unless your bot places the bets reliably. But what the hell, is that so bad if you can make some good money?

    Now here’s another thing, you can pick any football game you like, and they don’t have to be spread apart. You don’t have to follow FBB rules, but that’s up to you. One bet is always going to win, the stats tell us, you will have slightly more winning backing bets than winners in the lay side. Just look at the reviewers results again, also have a look at other review sites results that have reviewed FFB.

    As I said I made over 20K in about four years doing this. To be honest, I just did when I felt like it, or I was to busy, especially with our move to China. If I had really concentrated on this and gave it all my attention, I could have easily have made 5 times that, no B/S.

    Anyway, have a think, you know Revelation staking more than I do, but if I can make it work on Fib or just plain recovery like we did with the dogs, I’d say you should be quids in, literally! 🙂

  28. gerry747 says:

    I think I owe Matt and Andrew an apology, the above posts should really have gone into the IGI thread. Just let me say this, if anyone just wants to keep it simple, the “Football Bank Builder” method is probably one of the best little products on MMR. You won’t go far wrong with this, the stats prove it. All imo.

  29. rinti says:

    I decided to order the system as it offers the revelation staking for free now, I want to do it via Canonbury to be on the safer side but their form keeps asking for shipping address and that adds addition costs, don’t understand why they need shipping address and will even charge me for shipping when I am byuing a pdf..

    I have contacted the support.

  30. kaylan says:

    Hi rinti

    I ordered it yesterday, and they asked if the shipping address was the same as the address I put in application. My shipping chargers were zero so did not worry about it. Did take awhile for the confirmation email with the down load to come through, and when it did it went into my spam folder. As far as I am aware there is nothing to be shipped, all done by email.
    Like you I want the revelation staking plan, so I was disappointed to find you do not get it until the 30 day refund period has expired. I can understand the reasons but still disappointing not to be able to use it straight away.

  31. rinti says:

    Thanks kaylan, thanks for the help, I think it add additional shipping because I am not from the UK.

    They haven’t stated that I will get the plan after 30 days, little bit disappointing, it should be stated at least(might have missed it)

  32. rinti says:

    P.S I noticed that that the method is offered under different sites and in some is not mentioned that the revelation plan is gained straight away on some is not.

    For example – here you can see the revelation plan in the offer. – Here it’s not mentioned

  33. thebetengine says:

    I don’t think the fact that you don’t get immediate access to the staking plan is displayed anywhere on the site. The first you hear of it is when you buy and read the PDF.

  34. rinti says:

    thebetengine, my previous comment is not approved yet, but check the links there, it is displayed on the site, there are just several sites.

  35. tom42 says:

    So lets get this straight.

    While you are in your 30 day trial period, you get access to the next stakes using an on-line calculator. When your trial period is up you can then download the pdf explaining the REVELATION staking plan, so you will not then need the on-line calculator.

    Is that right. Have I got that correct?

  36. rinti says:

    It’s been a lot of guessing about that in other thread too. If the author or someone from Canonbury can show up and explain that that would be very helpful.

    tom42 your guess sounds right, but some people did not get access even to the calculator, so I think it differs from where you buy, which is kind of dumb.

  37. bredbreeze says:

    As I bought Bank Builder 2 years ago from ADK I contacted Andrew and he sold me the
    Revelation System for £37 as he could confirm I had previously bought the system.

    Worth every penny. It is a must have in my opinion.

  38. rinti says:

    Just a question, leaving risk aside. Does the Revelation plan produce more or less profits than the Fibonacci ?

  39. brokebookie says:

    @Gerry 747, yes i agree using Little acorns & footie bankbuilder is close to the holy grail as your going to get in my humble opinion! That’s a great angle you have there & have copied & pasted it as i think you could make us all rich gerry747. I’ve saved the file as Gerry’s holy grail plan!
    Took me a bit of getting my head around the revelation at first though:)
    @Rinti, the revelation produces better profits than the Fibonacci and with less risk and less volatility hence why everyone’s raving about it – Jackpot!
    @Betengine, i think the confusion here is that its offered as a special offer bonus with footie BB at times (when i bought) & then would include details of how to get it after 30 days like mine did s i’ve just re read it. you can certainly get a refund of footie BB if you want but then you dont get the Revelation – fair enough i suppose.

  40. thebetengine says:

    @brokebookie I understand the need to protect it, but I just wish they were more up-front about not getting access to the Revelation plan until after the money back period.

  41. rinti says:

    If they provide me a link to a calculator which will give me the stakes for the first month without giving the game of the plan I am OK with that. It’s going to be enough to test if the system and the plan are for me.

  42. brokebookie says:

    Yes i see what you mean BETENGINE but then again buyers didnt know they were going to get it until they read the PDF so it was an added bonus anyway that they buyers never knew they were getting when they bought Footie BB. So i guess they didnt have to offer it in the first place is the way i view it – Glad they did though even though i jumped the gun & bought it after i read about it at the end!

  43. brokebookie says:

    @rinti, the revelation is accessed on a password protected webpage given in a instruction document that a bit heavy but got my head around it eventually. The staking calculator is Pretty basic but does the job and cant see it failing unless the system you are using it with it is bobbins.

  44. kaylan says:

    The revelation staking plan is mentioned as something you get in the sales letter.
    It is not until you purchase the FBB that you find out there is no access to the staking plan at all until the 30 day period has expired.
    I can understand they want to protect the copyright and not give it away to people who cancel within the 30 days. But it is a bit naughty not to mention this until you actually make the purchase.
    They could say in the sales letter that it is a bonus for people who keep the FBB after 30 days
    It makes you wonder if they did not mention it as a tempter at all, how many would still buy the FBB ?

  45. brokebookie says:

    i just checked here at and the revelation is not mentioned at all?? I think it all depends on what offer you were exposed to as i’ve seen several. No need to do it really as gerry747 said footie bankbuilder is a good stand alone product anyway without the revelation! All in all does it matter as they work which is good enough for me Kaylan and many other it appears!!

  46. gerry747 says:

    I’m pleased that this football betting system thread has been looked at again, it was back in April 10th 2014 the last time anyone posted about it and that was me. It would have been a pity to just ignore it, because it is a good profitable betting method.

    Guys really look at the results, ask yourself, is there an angle that you could make this work? Did the reviewer do it to the best advised staking? Take notice of the guys actually doing this and making a good steady profit. Guys like brokebookie and mathsman, ask them questions, how they succeeded and the reviewer didn’t.

    I’ve looked at a few review sites who got this completely wrong. Matt Fisher and Andrew David must have been fuming when you think all the work that they put into this, to be totally ignored because of not following simple advised staking. It can make or break a product, because some members just go on the reviewers recommendations.

    I know it can’t be easy getting reviewers, they are guys just like you and me. But when they get it wrong, it can be very costly. It will be interesting to see what the knew review shows when Michelle can get someone to do it again.

  47. gerry747 says:

    or (new) even, will get it right one of these days!…

  48. wanderer says:

    Hi Gerry.Thanks for your above posts.I have always been into the horses and know zero about football so always left it alone.You have now really got my interest as i,ve started feeling a bit uncomfortable with racing,basically footballers choose to play.Plus the only 2 outcomes you’ve mentioned and slow and steady profits are the realistic way to go.Also i would like something i can do myself rather than just rely on free tipsters and as all my racing systems are so marginal. Can i ask whether a beginner could make this work,i ask as some above can’t seem to make it work and are more experienced than me.Also,can you do this manually or do i need a bot or software.

  49. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – Your welcome, this is ideal for a beginner, you don’t need to know anything about football. It’s all about odds, Matt explains precisely what you have to look for, basically there are only two rules to follow.

    You don’t need a bot, but if you wanted to go below the £2 minimum on Betfair you would need one. The ones that usually don’t make it work, don’t follow the advice given. Over many years of data show the stats are on your side.

    Just take a look at the reviewers results again, like I told kaylan, follow the advice, you would have made a good profit. Don’t worry about not knowing about football, you don’t need to, the guys on mmr will help you if you get stuck on anything, hope this helps.

  50. wanderer says:

    Thanks very much for your time Gerry.I have just ordered the system and am looking forward to studying it,i’m not too bad at basic maths and quite logical.

  51. wanderer says:

    Is this a download or do i get a hard copy?It mentioned instant access when i ordered 4 hours ago ,but i haven’t heard anything and can’t find any contact details.

  52. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – if you don’t receive it, just email Canonbury info above contact details, don’t worry, they’re a good company.

  53. wanderer says:

    Thanks again Gerry,didn’t see that email address.

  54. bobo1977 says:

    Yes gerry747, i like Andrew Davids methods, they get you thinking instead of the same old, same old stuff out there! I am just gutted i didnt know about this revelation procedure for L Acorns and the football method as i have both as well as PEM! I have also been a tester for 3 methods he sent me last summer that made me some tasty profits but just havent the time to follow everything so at present stick with PEM & Acorns and also betalchemist selections. Its seems all the world and his wife knows about the revelation apart from me – has he forgot about me:( I thought been on his list i would know about it by now so a bit deflated. That’s why i asked was it from the man himself.

    Thanks johnlynch for info i think an email is in order re revelation.
    By the way i found the football Builder profitable when i used it for around 3 months, i used to do one match per day as far i can remembers. cheers chaps!

  55. kaylan says:

    Hi wanderer
    I had the same problem when I ordered FBB. found it later in my spam folder
    Like you I know zilch about football.
    I am making some stupid mistakes at the moment but learning as I go.
    First stupid mistake, could not understand if a football match is 45 minutes each way why was it still going after 90 minutes. ….. DOH!
    Told you I was thick regarding football Gerry

  56. wanderer says:

    Thanks Kaylan,not in my spam folder but got it resent after a couple of emails.I will give it a good read tomorrow.LOL.I did at least know the length of the game.Hopefully we can both get this.Which staking plan dd you go with,at least for the first month until you get the revelation plan?

  57. tom42 says:

    wanderer, I thought you got access to an on-line calculator that worked out the revelation plan stakes for you, whilst waiting for your 30 days to go by.

  58. wanderer says:

    No mention of that in the pdf.I bought from footballbankbuilder website ,actually it’s not mentioned at all ,i just read about it on here and clicked the above link.I emailed Matt Fisher about not receiving the above pdf ,but got a reply from Andrew David at ADK Publishing.Does that mean i don’t get the plan or the calculator.Regardless,just wondered which one of the 3 plans mentioned people were using or was reccomended.If i read this review correctly,level stakes is not the one.

  59. kaylan says:

    Like you wanderer just starting out with this. Mine arrived yesterday.
    Until I get the revelation staking plan I intend to use Fibonacci

  60. kaylan says:

    Hi tom42

    I don’t know anything about an online calculator , do you have anymore details?

  61. thebetengine says:

    @wanderer – the offer including the Revelation staking plan was on the Canonbury web site; the FBB web site does not mention the plan (see the posting from Rinti on the 15th Feb, further up this thread).

    @tom42 – having spoken to Canonbury, you do not get access to either the staking plan or the online calculator until the money back guarantee period has ended; so no access until 30 days has passed. You need to understand the basics of the staking plan in order to use the calculator.

    I am currently using the second Fibonacci option (staking plan B).

  62. wanderer says:

    Too late ,i just went to the original vendor.I still paid full price with a 30 day refund so not sure why the difference,just want to get the most out of the strategy.Thanks Kaylan and Betgenie.Not had a chance to really study it yet.Fibonacci does worry me a bit though,been around long enough to see it and loss /recovery systems go tits up.

  63. brokebookie says:

    @wanderer, i have been fine running Footie Bankbuilder with the Fib staking & still making profits with using it as i run 2 banks one for Fib & one for Revelation. However i think i am going to sack using the Fib & plough all my resources into the Revelation now. Simply because you can miss a day here or there & it wont affect profits over set periods.Its also unique in its approach to loss recovery, whereas the fib is more aggressive. With my use i’ve found it more gradual & less drawdowns so just what i have been looking for!

    I think those that got offered it free are just lucky as in my copy of footie bankbuilder it said it would be sold on its own soon. I think they will probably offer another bonus in its place, but then again they dont have to offer any bonus in the first place – but hey what a bonus!

  64. rinti says:

    Still no answer from Canonbury, if someone was willing to give me 97 pounds and it’s working day I would probably respond faster. Saw comments they are a serious company so hoping to get an answer soon, so I don’t have to pay 15 pounds+ for shipping which I am not getting.

    Also I find it strange that nobody from the company or the author of the method did not show up here to clarify things about the revelation plan once and for all, we can only guess.

    TheBetEngine, some people claim they got access to the calculator right away.

  65. thebetengine says:

    @rinti Since you need to know the basics of the staking plan in order to use the calculator, I cannot see how that can possibly be true.

  66. gerry747 says:

    Just going back to the reviewers results above. If you had just been laying those selections at £10 target a lay bet and using an ordinary recovery staking plan, set to recovery on 1. You would have made £1,320 clear profit.

    If you had done as above but also backed bet at £5 target on recovery of 1, you would have made a nice £1,980 tax free profit. You see the difference it makes doing both, and still follow the rules of FBB.

    A betting bank of just £500 would have covered it, remember your balance doesn’t drop as quick, because one of your bets always wins. You would have gone no further than the fourth bet on either, apart from once on the lay side you would have done 5.

    Hi Michelle, (admin) just seen it, none of my doing.

  67. wanderer says:

    Thanks Brokebookie,i don’t have a choice of using the revelation so will use the Fib with small stakes.Just read the pdf.Does anyone know a good site so i can check if a game qualifies?Not the odds,but match details,Betfair doesn’t say much about where or what the competition is.

  68. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – you could try this,

  69. graham says:

    Could not resist any longer. Bought through Cannonbury, says will receive Revelation and calculator in 30 days. The manual is very clear and easy to understand. Gerry and the authors state a longest losing run of 5 but my main concern is members could pick 3 different matches to everyone else. So could I crash through 6 or 7,with bad luck.
    For the time being, I am using both rules, as I assume the authors found over a long period of time, this increased the strike right.

    Does not seem like many possibilities today. I am using Notts v sheff. Naft v El Jaish. See how we go.

  70. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – just to add, if you click on a match and go into the H2H it gives the last 5 matches each team has played and the results. Also further down it shows the last 5 matches they played each other. It’s goods for seeing how many goals were scored per match.

  71. graham says:

    Gerry, see what you mean with the bots. Are you running on recovery or Fib. Wonder if Betsender would update with Revelation. I will be interested to see how it does not use increased stakes. But have got to get part one under control first.

    Please pass on my Best wishes to Su. Sounds like Harry has put a new meaning to “Aces high”

  72. johnlynch says:


    You will be pleased with the staking plan,when you get it.Im using it with little acorns and am very impressed.
    i hope one day soon to give up my pizza delivery job,and who knows one day maybe move to China.

  73. gerry747 says:

    Hi graham – good question, I’ve had a go at both, for some reason Betsender is a bit iffy betting on football. Sometimes it fires, other times not. Fib is easy to work out the next stake just by using a calculator.

    I alter it a bit, instead of the 1,1,3,5,8, etc. I go 1,2,3,5,8, and so on. If I was you, for now I would try Fib, then Revelation when you get it. As for it updating the Revelation, you’d have to ask Mike at Betsender about that, I don’t know.

    Yep will pass on your best wishes, and as for Harry, well what can you say, Harry is Harry!…

  74. wanderer says:

    Thanks again Gerry.Graham,only read this today myself,but i’m not sure your 2nd game qualifies.

  75. gerry747 says:

    graham, naft game is ok, it’s an international, but champions league is ok, and your ok with the odds.

  76. wanderer says:

    I’m sure it probably is o.k,just that it’s Asian rather than European.

  77. graham says:

    Thanks both of you, only playing minimum stakes, so will see how it goes.

  78. gerry747 says:

    graham/wanderer, give you a little tip, I find if you need goals, the lesser leagues are better. Leagues like Mexico, Japan, South America, Vietnam, if you don’t want many goals, the better leagues like Europe usually have a better defence, just my opinion.

  79. jassurin says:

    Just curious, If the Fibonacci staking plan is the way to go with this system, does this also mean that the advised bank can survive 1 full losing fibo. circle if or should it rather be when that happens?


  80. gerry747 says:

    jassurin – Hi, if you go by the advised betting bank that Matt suggests, you can go twice the Fib cycle, which he has never reached. For example, a £400 betting bank would cover that easily, hope this helps.

  81. gerry747 says:

    Just to add, that is using the £2 minimum stake on Betfair, if your using a bot, of course you can go much lower and a lower betting bank.

  82. gerry747 says:

    johnlynch – John you would be most welcome, I would pick you up myself. You never know, just might quieten the odd one on MMR. It’s nearly my bedtime now, good luck guys with your football betting!….

  83. jassurin says:

    Thank you for replying. How many bets are actually to be found in one full circle according to the author? And what about stop loss, any such?


  84. kaylan says:

    Hi Graham

    Any particular reason why you picked Notts V Sheff Utd out of the choice of others?
    I picked Sheff Utd because its my home team.
    But then again I picked Beitar Nahariya v Hapoel Midgdal Hamemek (which I cannot pronounce) because I have never heard of them (Don’t know if they are allowed or not).
    But I did win the Lay with them Yipee!

  85. gerry747 says:

    jassurin – It’s not the author, just add all the bets together in the Fib cycle and you have it.

  86. gerry747 says:

    No stop loss, just use a little common sense, if you think your having a bad day, stop. This is still gambling after all.

  87. thebetengine says:

    @graham Strictly speaking the Naft game did not qualify as it did not meet the liquidity requirements (however, I am not sure that that particular rule is essential as long as there is some money in the market)

  88. kaylan says:


    Good old Greys Angel

  89. graham says:

    @thebetengine. Thanks for pointing out the liquidity, I had not taken that on board. That bet lost, maybe for those reasons.

  90. thebetengine says:

    @graham You can expect to lose about 60% of your bets. However, the low odds coupled with the staking plan should bring you out ahead.

  91. rinti says:

    gerry747, do you use Fibonacci sequence both for the lay and back bets ?


  92. graham says:

    Kaylan, why did I pick Sheffield? I like their cutlery!!! No, just was the first bet I found. I think it is going to take me a while to suss out the bets. I am starting with both rules, but like Gerry, may leave out rule 1. Tomorrow after finding up to 3 bets, I will look for more and paper trade them. Get the feel.

    Yes another winning lay. I also joined Profit from racing recently, I like his style also, Rich Preistley is doing well, both in his club, and on twitter.
    These profits cover some of the tipsters I follow, who all seem to be having a lean time since Dec. even the ones who are normally good.

  93. graham says:

    Hi Johnlynch, You know I follow TBC. mainly place betting. would the Rev. handle odds of 1.20. or is that too low. Keep going, you might be able to sell your delivery bike, and get one of those flash scooters soon.

  94. jassurin says:

    Regarding the use of the fibonacci sequence, there seem to be more than just 1 way to apply it. Some will use it as an infinite series of numbers, others will restart the series every time they hit a winner.The first one is not to be recommended imho.. I know nothing about the revelation staking plan but assume that it is progressive staking too and you need a calculator to operate it, am I correct in this?


  95. thebetengine says:

    @jassurin It is progressive (gently progressive). You don’t actually need the provided calculator as the plan itself is not difficult to operate, but having access to the calculator makes life easier.

  96. kaylan says:

    Hi Graham
    I have become a bit of a techy dinosaur, tried to find Richard Priestley on twitter but no luck. Not really sure where to look.
    Also what is TBC? I am sure I should know.
    I think I am getting a head ache.

  97. kaylan says:

    I tried Profit from racing but lost on the first lay bet (seems a thing with me) then had more days with no tips than days with tips. I appreciate he does not want to give tips for the sake of it (his words) but when his tips lose, because of the infrequent nature it takes a while to recover.

  98. rinti says:

    Bought the plan, but I am into automating things, I will try to make it 100% automated, it will be kind of hard with this one mainly due to the choice of games, but I will give it a try, also I won’t stop at 3 games per day.

    I do realize that the author does not guarantee profit if deviating from the rules, but bots allow stake even 1 pence so will try.

  99. brokebookie says:

    Wow rinti are you saying you can automate the Revelation & Footie bankbuilder selections as that would be very useful!

    @Betengine; yes it a gentle increase in stakes but nowhere near like others. It can also quickly turnaround losing runs with far less severe drawdowns.When your laying below 2.0 you have less exposure even after lengthy losing runs. Its truly excellent!

  100. graham says:

    Kaylan, try this in search bar at top of twitter. @richjpriestley Should come up, I think that must be Katwood giving him a cuddle.

    Total betting club, costs £19.99 pm. loads of info, about everything betting. Run by Louis. I follow a couple of place betting systems on favs. Very high strike rate, but losers take time to recoup.

    I started with PFR at the start of Feb, have done well. I am using 10% of the bank liability, and think this is the best way I have found for lay betting. Hope this helps.

  101. fredperry1 says:

    Kaylan. Twitter lays are @RichJPriestley

  102. wanderer says:

    How did the newbies all do today,Kaylan,Graham.Couldn’t find any earlier,they all seemed to be roughly the same time tonight so just did the one as i’m using the Fib.You could do this daily,rather than game by game but that would require a larger bank i guess.I layed under 2.5.Rotherham 3 Derby 3 .£2 profit or rather 0.5 % increase on bank as the authors would put it.Up on the horses too.

  103. rinti says:

    Brokebookie, about the Revelation no idea, I don’t have it yet, so I have no idea if in can be implemented in a betting bot, 30 days counting down..

    About Football Bank Builder, yes, knowing what I know about the bots on the market I think I can do it, I’ve done it before, I mean automating strategies that people and even the author of the system himself claimed it cannot be made hands free, when I mean 100% automation what I want to achieve is after the click of the button “start” I will only have to check profit/loss at the end of the day or the week/month.

    The problem with that strategy is only 1 or 2 bot on the market can automate it fully, most of them still do not have the features or excel knowledge will be needed(advanced). The main obstacle is most of the bots cannot monitor 2 markets simultaneously from the same game and bet only on the one.

    Usually the purpose of the bots is to scale a project hence make it even more profitable and take out the emotions out of betting, which with recovery staking plans can be a problem.

    The original variation of the strategy, can it be fully automated, my answer is yes(though it will require some time to make csv list with all the leagues that fit, but it’s one time work), but for just 3 games per day it does not justify the cost of the bot for me. Both the variations of the first 3 games, or 3 games with best prices can be automated.

    My first touch with the system was quite good I would say, I set the 2 rules from the manual in my bot and from the matches from UK which started at the same time at :45 and from other leagues the bot picked 14 selections, 11 have won, 2 lost, 1 is not settled yet. Of course this sample is small as hell, so it will take me time to see if this strategy is to be scaled that much. – two of the selections were actually layed not in the required odds, will see why this happened, I made it at :42 for 1 minute so did not have the time to perfect the settings.

    Why I don’t like football methods which require loss recovery of any kind, the revelation is that even more intelligent. The problem is most of the matches start at the same time, so you have to wait almost 2 hours for the outcome and then only next place your bet. In the manual there is solution to this, but I have no idea if it work scaled on tens of matches per day not 3.

    If there is an interest in what I am trying to do, will keep you updated, if not, well 😀

  104. graham says:

    Kaylan my reply is in mod.

  105. graham says:

    hi Wanderer. First day, was a bit like playing in fog. Checked about 11.30am. A lot of same timers, so scrolled down, did not know a lot of teams but chose 2. 1 lost, I was advised of liquidity, so will keep that in mind. Big game tonight won for me. So 20p up. I laugh but the point is its a profit.

    My main concern was if I pick a load of duds. But I now believe this is a numbers game. So providing I stick to the guide lines should be self working.

  106. johnlynch says:


    I dont think it will Andrew David advises odds of 1.5 to 2.00,but when you get the plan you can always give it a whirl and see how you get on.

    Ive just ordered fbb through steve davidson,but have to wait up to 24 hours for the activation key.

  107. brokebookie says:

    @graham, much better off using footie bankbuilder with revelation than with Fib sequence. Its different class and far more safer. Footie bankbuilder is an excellent platform for revelation and so to is the Little acorn s these are the 2 products the developer of revelation says to use.

  108. rinti says:

    @Gerry474 excellent contribution but just to be fair.

    Hi, guys would you take another look at this football laying system. Firstly to be fair to the reviewer, it does state on the site you can do this to level stakes, which he used. Having said that, this is not a system that works best at level staking. It’s strongly advised to use the “Fibonacci” staking method and believe me, it works!…. I know.

    The author does claim it works on level stakes even small profits but profits are profits, his claim is even on level stakes you won’t lose, that is having read the pdf ! Actually the example shown on the site turning 1000 into 30000 is exactly on level stakes.

  109. gerry747 says:

    rinti – I’ve used both Fib and lay recovery. Yes it was on level stakes, but if you look at most of the reviews done by other review sites and including this one, they nearly all made a loss using level stakes. Matt does say he prefers the Fib staking and advises it, so does Andrew.

    If you use two instances of a bot, you can automate it to do the same games at once. I’ve been using bots for many years. I said before I was backing and laying the same games using Betsender.

    I made over £20K using this method over a period of about 4 years, think that says it all really, don’t you?….

    If you want to try at level stakes, give it a go, I know which I would prefer, good luck.

    ps. If he stated on “level stakes you won’t lose” which I didn’t see because we have the cut down version from Steve Davidson. I would say a comment like that is garbage, but some would believe it.

  110. rinti says:

    Thanks gerry747, I read all your posts, and really great contribution, the point of my post was not to offend you as you what speak is completely true, the system does not work best on level, that is true, however the manual was updated on the 22nd january, and even if the authors does not state “you won’t lose if you use level stakes” they do say you can use level stakes but warn you you can expect a lot little profit comparing to Fibonacci. I can post the exact words but not sure if I violate the copyrights.

    I see you are guy like me, who like bots and I have actually done the same thing but on other market, backing and laying the same horse under 2 with loss recovery, as you can guess both making profit.

    I would really like to see your opinion on the longer post I’ve wrote above. Mainly if you think the strategy can be scaled that much, you’ve done something similar, but still your way requires manual work and is not that much scaled.

    Thanks is advance

  111. gerry747 says:

    rinti – You haven’t offended at all, I’ve been in this betting lark a long time and though I say it myself, been very successful. If I can help anyone to make a bit of cash, it gives me a good feeling.

    Yep my way does require some manual input, also I like to keep an eye on things in case a little intervention is required. To be honest I don’t know if you will be able to fully automate what your trying to achieve. It certainly won’t be easy. I certainly haven’t tried to go that far, so it would be interesting to see how you do. I really don’t have the time myself to do it.

    The thing with this, you’ve got the stats on your side going back years. It’s ideal for backing and laying. Having said that, it’s a good system by itself just following Matt’s advice. I tell you what, anyone with a good sized betting bank, has the potential to set themselves up with good pension pot for life with this, and I don’t say that very often.

    As I said I made over £20K doing the backing and laying. The reason I did this as a stand alone is because we couldn’t get it to work and include it in our syndicate bot system, which places hundreds of bets everyday on all kinds of sports, but can we hell as like get it to do football betting.

    Keep us updated how you get on, I wish you luck with this, because I know it won’t be easy, “onwards and upwards”

  112. gerry747 says:

    graham – Don’t worry too much about liquidity, it only means not many punters are betting on that match. Betfair know this game and odds before the punters even bet as regarding their odds, there is no bookie better at it than them, as most bookies follow them anyway. As long as there is enough to cover your small stakes, that’s all that matters mate.

  113. rinti says:

    Thanks gerry747, the only way that I am going to find out is trying..

    Luckily the bot I use support unlimited number of systems and simulation mode so I can try as many variations of the system as I come up. I’ve came up with the following ones and will run them for at least 2 weeks before making any decisions whatsoever, there is no reason to rush, the system should work for many years to come.

    1. Betting on all markets which fit the 2 rules expect U19, U21 and Women, filtrating further will take me much time, also I have added rules for max back/lay ratio, liquidity or market to ensure I get real prices. Bot will start checking for conditions 5 minutes before kick-off and stop at start time. This one will run on level stakes.

    2. Same as one, but I will recalculate stakes at the end of the day using the Fibonacci sequence as suggested in manual if you place all 3 bets at same time, same principle just a lot more markets. This one requires a but of manual stakes, but recalculating stakes at the end of the day won’t kill me.

    3. Well same as the above 😀 But I have added a condition on unsettled markets to be 0, that makes the strategy the closest to the original the possible. It means it will bet on one market the one which is closer in time, wait for it to settle and only after that place another bet.

    This one will run in 2 variations, one with Fibonacci 1-2-3-8-13-21 and one with Regular Fibonacci just 2 steps back variation.

    If someone can come up with more variables of the system please do write them, it will take me seconds to run it, no manual labour involved 🙂

  114. gerry747 says:

    rinti – Just out of curiosity, where about’s are you? I’m 8 hours ahead of UK time in China, so I thought maybe your nearer to me than UK.

  115. rinti says:

    I forgot to mention that if my experiment proofs successful I have no problem sharing the automated strategies with MMR members who have bough the system. All you have to do is import a .xml file and click start, yep as simple as that.

    Bots have changed through the years, they really changed my way of betting. For example that strategy would have been impossible to automate 2 years ago, there was just no bot on the market offering the features. I have used almost every bot on the market and for that I wrote this strategy is from the harder ones to automate.

  116. rinti says:

    gerry747, Germany and the Netherlands is where I am, sorry did not see your post while writing my other. I just don’t like sleep 😀

  117. gerry747 says:

    Just had a bit of a laugh to myself, reading what I wrote to “rinti” earlier.

    “If I can help anyone to make a bit of cash, it gives me a good feeling.”

    Sounds like the sales page from a dodgy tipster/vendor 🙂

    Seriously though, if you use your loaf, don’t get greedy, and use good management with your cash, you can make a steady income from this. Think I should add, I have no connection with ADK/Canonbury or Matt or Andrew in anyway. I think Michelle in admin would confirm that, she knew beforehand I wanted to ask you guys to look at this again, from a different angle.

    Yep, that’s what it’s all about, angles, if there are only two outcomes (on any sport) and those outcomes change quite frequently, you can make money!

    Well this thread has certainly blossomed a bit, 14 posts up to April 10th 2014 then nothing till Feb 6th 2015, now 116 posts. Over 100 posts in 12 days, well done guys and thanks for taking a look.

  118. wanderer says:

    Hi Gerry,thanks for kickstarting the thread.I made a profit just on the one evening game.I wanted to use the Fib staking but all,the games were at similar times.i may try and use the same stakes on all 3 and then re-calculate at the end of the day using the Fib.Would this mean i need a 3 times larger bank?
    I’m going to stick to the Formula as written but also trying to get my head round what you say.I thought i got what you were saying about backing and laying,but when i tried it theoretically on Betfair,they cancelled each other out,always small losses due to the prices.As i say,happy to just use the Formula as outlined,but the maths intrigues me

  119. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – If you go into that flashscore site and go into scheduled games, you can see all the days games from all over the world at different times, it might help to get more games per day spread out.

    I wouldn’t do the recalculating till you really get into this. Yes Fib will work like that if you place all bets at once and you have a losing day, use Fib on all 3 the next day. Yes you are using extra cash all at once and if you get it wrong you could be in trouble, slow and steady mate.

    You make me laugh, you will never profit trying to use Betfair backing and laying on their site platform, the odds are always against you. You need a bot and it’s the recovery that gets your profit on both. Don’t worry, we all have to learn, it will come.

  120. wanderer says:

    I knew it couldn’t be that easy Gerry,just the maths was doing my head in.
    I was probably being a bit fussy ,but no worries as the author even mentions using the Fib plan using small stakes on one or two games a day.
    Your second paragraph taken on board.
    I know you are less selective and use more games,lots of people will get different selections on the 3 games as well.For example small stakes on more games,or a bit bigger on just the 3,does it work out similar.Even if you only did 1 game a day,it seems to me you will make at least a point a week,or am i making you laugh again.

  121. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – Once you get to know how to use a bot and set it up correctly, it is actually quite easy. It doesn’t matter how many games you do, obviously the more you do the more profit. I would just follow the plan you bought and gradually try different things out as you go along.

    The stats are on your side to make a profit over time. Just remember this, a lot of punters fail, either by not following instructions or impatience and greed.

    Right, I have to earn a living, so will be away for the rest of the day, good luck, onwards and upwards!

  122. mathsman says:

    I found out from canonbury about the revelation so you’re not alone Bobo77! I also was a beta tester for Andrew David last year for an excellent mix of systems and all using fib staking and all nice account builders in their own right. Even losing sequences didn’t matter with 2 of them as they made big gains to outweigh the losses which made me feel very comfortable when using them so fibonaaci can be good, just depends on what and how you apply it.

    Without giving the game away did your beta testing for Andrew david include 3 systems with one systems to do with doubles and the other a football method? If so its same as the ones I tested. I am gutted to as I wasn’t informed about revelation either from him, so maybe he has forgotten me too or I’ve dropped off the list?

    Not sure what thread I should place this on as there are a few?? Maybe a thread for staking plans would be good admin? I will stay clear of the juicy plums thread!

  123. kaylan says:

    Lots to read on this thread today. Looks like Gerry has kick started something again.
    My first proper try at FBB resulted in one loosing lay and two winning lays So up 43 pence in real money.

    I much prefer bots to automate betting where I can. Very keen to hear how you progress with it. I only use betsender but find it makes life so much earlier. Sounds as if your bot is very sophisticated. Is it one you purchased or developed yourself?

  124. kaylan says:

    Thanks graham and fredperry1 That did the trick.
    Did not know about eh “J” in the name.

  125. kaylan says:

    Hi Graham

    my reply to you and fredperry1 is in moderation.
    Not sure why

  126. kaylan says:

    Graham last two comments in Mod

  127. brokebookie says:

    Still say its best to use footie bankbuilder with Revelation than with Fib, with Fib unless your using very small stakes you will get worried the higher it goes up the steps. That does not happen with Revelation so losing runs don’t worry me now and you can pick up where you left and no need for continuous use so dont have to worry about missing winning lays.

  128. gerry747 says:

    kaylan – Yep, I too find Betsender makes life so much earlier! it’s so early, you get the result before the game finishes!…….. You make me smile!…. Pleased you had a decent start, this just the beginning mate!

  129. kaylan says:

    I have already admitted that my football knowledge is zero. Without giving too much away.
    With FBB it is necessary to pick certain teams based on certain locations I am struggling to know who is where
    Can anyone help on this.

  130. kaylan says:

    You know what I mean Gerry.
    Heads all over the place at the moment, got a poorly doggy at home, not had much sleep

  131. gerry747 says:

    kaylan – Matt actually says just pick the first three you come to. Depending on your bet if you want goals or not. You can check the days games on
    it will give you all the info you want. Also above somewhere, I mentioned the locations of leagues I found the best for goals or no goals.

  132. gerry747 says:

    kaylan- sorry about the dog, just joking with you.

  133. kaylan says:

    No Problem Gerry
    Thanks for the info, as usual much appreciated

  134. wanderer says:

    The flashscore link Gerry posted yesterday tells you where.If you register,click settings and you can click time order.

  135. rinti says:

    Hey Kaylan,

    the bot I use is Bf Bot Manager + Multi Strategies bot that one allows you to automate that strategy and many more + run unlimited ones, you can find it in Betfair official app directory or google. Indeed it’s a lot more complex that Betsender, Betsender offers maybe 5 or 10% of the features Bf bot Manager does and it’s actually the same price. Multi Stratgies Bot does have a montly fee though.

    I suggest you to try it there is a trial, Betsender is really nice simple bot does that the job, but if you want the ability to automate virtually anything this is the one, you will be browned what type of conditions it offers.

    The good thing is almost every bot offers at least 7 days trial, I have tried almost all of them and liked that one the most comparing price/features. Try if for yourself, but I do admit the bot looks kind of “too complex” at the beginning, if having a problem just email support, or ask me.

  136. rinti says:

    Btw my good streak continues it was 8 points up on level stake when I went to bed now it’s 14. Dream start I would say.

    I have a feeling that this strategy only gets better if you scale it big, and it may work on level stakes if scaled enough, if it picks 1-2 points per day on level stakes averagely I will be more than happy and won’t use any sort of recovery, I guess everyone will be happy actually.

    @gerry474 want to correct you on this one “kaylan – Matt actually says just pick the first three you come to. Depending on your bet if you want goals or not. You can check the days games on”

    In the manual I read the authors actually say pick the first three you come in and bet on the favorite it doesn’t matter if you want goals or not.

  137. kaylan says:

    Thanks wanderer, clicked on it, should make life a lot easier (or earlier):-) Now where did I put my world Atlas?
    I will have a look at your bot, trouble is I now find with the progression of years it takes a lot longer for things to sink in and make sense. The little grey brain cells are not what they use to be.

  138. gerry747 says:

    rinti – I think you misunderstood me, what I meant was, yes bet on the first three you come to, but, if you want to check the teams out before you do depending on if your bet is wanting goals under or over. Sometimes your laying the over, so you don’t want goals, the opposite if your laying under. I just find it more reassuring if the previous results of the teams fit in with the bets I’m going to place. Phew! hope you understood that!…

  139. gerry747 says:

    Just to add, some of your bets you are laying the over, some you are laying the under, just depends which ones you find first. Some guys actually go for the lowest odds of all the games that qualify to keep the losses if any right down. I find with that though, you have slightly more losing bets as they are strong favourites regarding the odds. I only know this after doing it for the past 4 years or so.

  140. rinti says:

    Ahh okay. Yeah got this one. I would actually not recommend doing that especially for beginners. Here are my reasons, football is unpredictable and at looking at stats you are trying to predict it and it can only confuse people. This strategy is based on how unpredictable the market is, so in my opinion just sticking to the rules to bet on the favorite can be very rewarding. Of course this is just my point of view.

  141. gerry747 says:

    Yep your right football results are very unpredictable, that’s why I asked guys to look at this again in the first place. It’s not really confusing, if the previous results show it’s in your favour or not, with the unpredictability, you still can bet on your first three you come to.

  142. rinti says:

    I should really check if there are new comments without posting 😀 I get your point and see the reasons long term, but for people just starting out who have little clue of football, my advise is to start just sticking to the rules as they are and as you gain knowledge and experience you can do some of the things gerry474 suggests, as they are good suggestion but require some experience.

  143. brokebookie says:

    @rinti, although it may work at level stakes its hard going as you can get longish losing streaks (5 or 6) followed by another (5 or 6)that can take a while to recover from. So i would refer my honorable friend to the comments i made sometime ago (As they say in the house of nutters.. sorry I mean commons!)

  144. gerry747 says:

    rinti – cheers mate, BTW, never flown a 474, are they any good? 🙂

  145. rinti says:

    Hhaha, sorry for that 😀 No idea, would like to try someday heard good things about these Boings 😀

    Brokebookie, you are quite right but the strategy as I run it usually places 5-10 bets at once so it’s not quite like that. Take a look – I do realize the strike rate will lower with time, but still I believe it can produce profits on level stakes scaled that much.

  146. wanderer says:

    I am going to stick to the plan,but am interested in what others are doing.rinti,how do you get so many selections,are you going outside the rules i.e. the exempt games.Going strictly by the rules,i can’t see any possible selections until this evening,are you finding the same Kaylan?

  147. kaylan says:

    Hi wanderer
    I have been laying the first teams that fit the criteria, hence my need to discover where they actually are in the world. Yesterday I hit two out of three. Today so far one win lay one losing lay final game is UK evening kick off. It’s a case of learning by my mistakes. That is why only betting with pennies not pounds.

  148. brokebookie says:

    Blimey Rinti, that some win sequence Footie bankbuilder! Well done!. I must be doing something wrong as i don’t get that many winners! If i fed them through the Revelation i could probably retire in a few years!!!!

  149. wanderer says:

    As i said,i haven’t found any that fit the criteria so far today,not the odds but the first couple of rules on the exempt list.I may be wrong or too cautious,but it’s fun learning.I just do the £2 min on Betfair as i don’t have a Bot,hadn’t even heard the term until yesterday.Good luck tonight.

  150. graham says:

    wanderer. I am sticking to the rules to start. 11.30am there were a lot of friendlies, so scrolled down. Found Lisbon v Beira @3.00. won for me. 7.45pm will do Bradford v S. Also 10.00pm NY red bulls v HBK.. Don’t think I am breaking the rules doing this.

  151. kaylan says:

    Mmm think I might have bet on a friendly or two!

  152. brokebookie says:

    Thats what i like about systems from the Andrew Davids stable they provide a good platform from which to build or tweak knowing the base rules are sound enough.
    @rinti – your running at a 78% winning lay strike rate! I run at around 46% and still make great gains with Revelation s you only need 33% or more. but i see you cant do Revelation as your laying loads at same time. Maybe worth have 2 separate banks – Awesome!

  153. gerry747 says:

    graham – Lisbon v Beira @3.00 do you mean odds of 3.0 or the time? 🙂

  154. graham says:

    Gerry I have set two instances going B/L. Just for fun. Its pulled up all matches U/O 2.5. But its not responding properly. Just had to fire the next match manually. Did you say you were having trouble. I had something similar when I tried Aussie horses some time back.

  155. wanderer says:

    The Lisbon was the first i found,but the odds dropped to .05 under the minimum odds just before the off.I agree on the others as well.Did you just decide this morning,i’m sitting watching the odds fluctuate,probably much too fussy.Well done on earlier.

  156. gerry747 says:

    graham – Yep same problem mate, have to fire manually, haven’t a clue why.

  157. gerry747 says:

    kaylan – see your bending the rules already, what can I say eh? 🙂

  158. kaylan says:

    Not on purpose Gerry, just through ignorance.

    Finding your methods very interesting

  159. kaylan says:

    Sorry to be thick, but how do you know if it’s friendly or not?

  160. gerry747 says:

    kaylan – click on the match on Betfair, it will tell you on the left, or click in flashscore for the info.

  161. kaylan says:

    Thanks again Gerry
    Never had this trouble with the dogs

  162. graham says:

    Gerry, no that was 3.00pm. The odds I got was 1.77. I am going to reread the manual again, think it says check at 11.00am, and then just before the start. But I will ask as an open question, if anyone has ideas on this. Should you take the price when you can get it, or wait to see what the market says just before the start?

  163. kaylan says:

    Hi Graham
    Broke the spell, first Lay bet with Rich Priestley.
    a winning Lay

    Thanks. Owe you a pint!

  164. rinti says:

    Hey guys. There are plenty of selections today, I am kind of amazed you could not find any. Nope, I am not bending the rules, following strictly the 2 ones, just bending the ones for the leagues, my bot does not bet on U21 U19 and Women but does bet on friendlies and cups if they fit in the 2 conditions.

    But even removing this ones still plenty of bets. I have blacked out the selections to not give the system away(note to admin the actual selection if it’s over/under is showed at the end so I made sure I blacked out the right thing), but these are the ones the bot have found till now, the single blacked out match was U21, forgot to add that exception, it was a winner though –

    P.S Flashscore does not show all the matches for the day just the main ones, shows every single one.

  165. rinti says:

    graham, I think checking prices before kick-off is more accurate, that is how i have set up the bot. Before kick-off there is more liquidity and the prices are more “real”

    My previous reply is in mod, I have wrote things to the people having trouble finding games.

  166. graham says:

    Hi Kaylan, good news at last, I assume you mean his vulnerable bet? Hope the dog improves, I am a dog lover, especially the fast ones.

  167. kaylan says:

    Yes that was the one, the description did worry me a bit but glad I went with it.
    Hope you had a punt on it
    Spent more money at the vets on one dog than I spent in a month on 6 dogs.
    He is still a bit poorly but hopefully getting there, thanks

  168. rinti says:

    While waiting for my comment to be approved. Here are just a few examples that fit the rules today.

    Atletico Cp – Trofense winning lay
    Coviha vs Sporting B losing lay
    Sp lisbon – winning lay
    União da Madeira – Aves – losing lay
    Ergotelis – Panionos winning lay

  169. wanderer says:

    Thanks for posting those rinti.I must admit,i looked at those but disregarded due to either the liquidity or the first rule,although very close.Some are not using the first rule and some not worried about the liquidity.I am probably too fussy.

  170. rinti says:

    Wanderer in the period before 3 min to 0 seconds before kick-off these matches met the first condition, even 0.01 out of it the bot does not place bets. So maybe you looked at them too early, it’s really good to bet like 2-3 min to kick-off this is where the cash flows in and there is liquidity and “real” prices. Of course of for big leagues that will happen earlier, but for the smaller ones the cash flows in the last couple of minutes.

  171. wanderer says:

    About 10-15 minutes before.I don’t have a bot but have been around all day.If people have no access during the day and no bot,i guess you take a risk and do whatever meets the criteria at 11,or just wait until the evening.
    I,m doing the Fib as no revelation plan so probably just the one again today,Birmingham v Middlesborough.Wonder if that will still meet the rules at kick-off,its close.Really appreciate your input,plus i now want to find out about Bots.

  172. rinti says:

    There is an other option, the matches fit the criteria for a few seconds the bot placed the bet and when you looked at them they odds may have moved. That is with this strategy, everyone will get different results, the only way to get repeated results is bot.

    I think the liquidity is the main thing, for example Bradford which starts in a few minutes does not meet the liquidity requirements, but I bet on every market with over 1000 matched, which is way less than stated in the manual but gives me more bets and I found 1000 to be a good figure.

    Birmingham v Middlesborough fits.

  173. tom42 says:

    Bradford City or Bradford Park Avenue ?

  174. rinti says:

    Bradford PA vs Stocport, it fits the 2 rules but not the liquidity requirment.

  175. gerry747 says:

    Fellow football punters, I think it would be good if you guys could post your longest losing run every so often. You could all compare how your doing and what selections info on the ones that let you down. I only mean those who are just laying, no backing and laying, thanks.

    If Kaylan goes a month without bending the rules, I’ll get his local confectioner in Sheffield to send him a box of doughnuts!…. 🙂

  176. kaylan says:

    You Know me too well Gerry.
    Might be worth it, I love doughnuts.
    Yesterday I was confused as to who was friendly and who was “not friendly” Ended up with 1 win lay and 2 losing lays.
    FC Nitra v MFK Karvina – winning lay
    FK Krasnodar v Atletico PR – losing lay
    Birmingham v Middlesbrough – losing lay

  177. gerry747 says:

    kaylan – forgot to ask you, are you using Fibonacci staking?

  178. wanderer says:

    I had previous day Rotherham v Derby -w
    Yesterday Birmingham v Middlesborough -l

    I had a feel that both games would go the way they did but just stuck to the rules.

  179. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – You’ll probably find your winning strike rate will be about the 40% mark, but with such low odds and the stats you should be okay in the long term if your doing progressive staking.

  180. kaylan says:

    I am picking 3 within the rules (I think) and hitting “bet now” using the bot, all at the same stake.
    As I lost yesterday using fib to increase all 3 teams stakes today to next fib level. Using fib 1.2.3 etc.

  181. gerry747 says:

    kaylan – I see, so your not picking matches spread apart? I know during the week it’s not easy to find them. Yep that works what your doing, only thing your laying out more cash at once.

  182. kaylan says:

    I prefer set and forget otherwise I might forget what I am doing.
    I am finding it hard to do this as I hate football and so have never bother to understand what it is all about

  183. wanderer says:

    I see a couple of possibles this afternoon.Loads that could fit tonight,but if being strict,are they exempt games or should i not worry about it?

  184. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – I would just stick to the rules Matt states, if the games are within those rules bet on them, there’s always tomorrow.

  185. wanderer says:

    Thanks Gerry.Next possible for me is at 16.15 but might not meet the liquidity.All tonights will probably do that,but not Champions league.No rush as you say.

  186. Longboarder says:

    Hi guys,

    Like some here I have zero interest in football so am not going to spend the day/evening checking on matches.

    So if I get involved with this it will have to be with a bot.

    What bots would you recommend for this?

  187. gerry747 says:

    Longboarder – Hi, one that bloody works mate, Betsender we’re having to trigger manually for some reason. I would have a chat with “rinti” he’s into bots, welcome to the party!

  188. gerry747 says:

    Longboarder – Forgot, betengine guy also into this, now he knows about bots.

  189. graham says:

    Hi all, having a bit of a bad day, might have a carbon mon. fault, waiting for next engineer.

    Kaylan like you and Longboarder, not much interest in footy, but you don’t have to buy the Sheffield shirt. This, hopefully is making money. Just follow the numbers, I don`t care what team wins. More annoyed I missed lay Polo, short odds as well.

    Gerry, no chips, no Betfair, what sort of place is it?
    Emailed Betsender, They update every couple of weeks. So have downloaded, and working perfectly. Last night, clicked on something had to wait 10 secs. for it might to work.
    Now I am rushing this a bit, I am B/L all O/U matches. First couple of games have fired themselves.
    Query, one may match, the other may be outside the odds. So I will monitor see what happens.
    Is tonights Europa Lge OK. to use, if so will only have two bets today. Also author states liability in the match odds, so doesn’t have to be in the U/O.

  190. gerry747 says:

    graham – Will have to try updating, good idea. I get my chips, just not as good as Hull chippy shops. I kid Betfair I’m somewhere else, works fine. Hope you get computer sorted.

  191. gerry747 says:

    graham – I’m thick, just realised, *carbon mon fault” I say hope you get your computer sorted. Can tell it’s past my bedtime here. Yep Europa lge should be ok.

  192. kaylan says:

    I am also having computer problems today It’s telling me my username or password are incorrect. Silly machine !
    Also using Europa league,
    You are right graham Don’t have to love it to make money.

  193. thebetengine says:

    Can it be automated? – yes
    Has it been automated? – probably 🙂

    Is it available on a commercial bot? – not to my knowledge (I have no knowledge of BF Bot Manager or BetSender or others).

    I am limited in what I can say due to forum rules.

  194. kaylan says:

    All for automation will have to scour the web for something to do it.

  195. rinti says:

    It can be done with commercial bots guys, do you want me to post pics exactly how ? Of course I will black out things that will give the system away.

  196. wanderer says:

    Strictly speaking the manual says Champions League ,i suppose the stats maybe back it up,but the Europa games seem like a good fit.Haven’t found any others yet either.

  197. tom42 says:

    @rinti yes please.

  198. kaylan says:


    would be good yes please

  199. rinti says:

    Okay. I have made 2 variations as possible as I can to the original ones, yet not 100% , will explain below.

    Variation number one. It will wait for the first bet to be settled and if win/loss recalculate staking according to Fibonacci(either 2 steps back or regular sequence restarting at first win). I have excluded U21, U19 and Women and the traded volume on the O/U market has to be at least 10000, I think that will ensure no bets are placed on friendlies and basically matches which are excluded from the rules in the book.

    Downside, if qualifying matches start at the same time like today, the bot will place only one so you may not get 3 bets. If you decide to follow that option, I advise you to lower the upper boarder of the 2nd condition, the gap from min odds to max is 0.4 make it 0.2 or experiment. Sorry if it sounds confusing but I need to find a way to say the things without giving the system.

    1st step – We need to follow 2 markets for that strategy, the bot has auto load function, add both of them !

    Next – this one is pretty self explanatory, just from the drop down menu choose the exact condition and setup them how I have setup them.

    3 – Тhe tricky part, the first one is the condition for the O/U 2.5 market. 2nd one you need it. The 3rd one is actually the first condition from the book, you need that exact condition because it checks other market not O/U 2.5 for that I said most bots cannot do it. The condition for which we check is always on the same “selection by position X” cannot give it away, just click a few markets and you will see it’s always on the same position. One more pic here cos the 3rd condition is tricky – bet only if – write the name of the market for which is the initial condition, if having doubt contact support, cos I cannot say without giving the condition.

    Next –

    Finally –

    If you want to use simple Fibonacci –

    2nd option will be posted later, I have to ask the owner of the bot for something not to let you down.

  200. rinti says:

    Pics and explanations posted guys, they are in mod I guess because there are a lot of links to the pics. Tried to explain everything yet no give away anything from the system, hope it will get approved.

  201. kaylan says:

    Thanks rinti look forward to seeing it.

  202. rinti says:

    The following matches fit the system from Europe league.

    Roma lost
    Napoli won
    Wolsburg won
    Liverpool not settled
    Sevilla not settled
    Villarreal not settled

  203. rinti says:

    My own version of the system has had 73 bets for the last 2 days.(Following only the 2 rules and except women u21 and u19)13 points profit at level stakes after commission. Te up was 18 points, the bank was never in red because the system started with a good streak.

    I will be running that system with 10 cents stake (don’t laugh :D) stake with real money, if it can produce at least 5 points points the next 3 days I will be increasing the stakes. I do believe it can.

    Why I think like that, authors stats shows that the strategy can produce 2 points profit on level stakes from 100 bets given strike rate around 50%, well I will get 100 bets only on Friday and Saturday I guess. And given the unpredictability of football betting on every single match I believe the strike rate may increase to 55-60% nevertheless we are laying odds on. Just projections.

  204. kaylan says:

    My results for 19th Feb
    One win, two loses
    PSV v Zenit St Petersburg – Losing Lay
    Liverpool v Besiktas – Losing Lay
    Tottenham v Fiorentina – Winning Lay

  205. brokebookie says:

    @rinti..Your doing very well with footie bankbuilder it appears – nice one!!
    @Kaylan.. i had same & made profits with both my Fib bank & Revelation, going very well with REV with no stress:)
    Another good footie system is pre match trading where you make a profit before kick off! Its based on predicting which way odds move before KO so backing & laying involved. You can get trial for peanuts

  206. rinti says:

    Which is that system @brokebookie ?

  207. kaylan says:


    I am confused how you made a profit and I made a loss. I am also using Fib, yesterday was 3 times stake.

  208. kaylan says:


    I think this is the one “Pre Match Trading”

    Reviewed September 10, 2012 by MMR

    Product Name: Pre Match Trading (including Draw Inflation tool)

    Author: Adam Ersser and Emil Genev

  209. wanderer says:

    I had Trabzonspor v Napoli Won
    Ajax v Legia Warsaw Lost
    Villarreal v Red Bull Salzburg Lost

  210. thebetengine says:

    @kaylan I’m slightly confused by your “yesterday was 3 times stake” comment.

    Are you deciding on the day’s stake before betting?

    I thought the process was to choose your stake based on the outcome of the PREVIOUS match.

    In its raw form, FBB can only handle one match at a time as you need to know the outcome of the match in order to determine the stake for the next match.

    Of course, there is nothing to stop you from running multiple selections simultaneously, but each of those should have their own Fib staking.

    The games that people select will change over the course of the day. Money hits the markets in the last hour before kick-off and it is quite common to see matches slip in and out of the qualifying odds range.

    Personally I had 5 matches yesterday (Roma, Trabzonspor, Liverpool, Sevilla, Villareal) – 4 lost, 1 won – so an overall loss on the day (note I am running 6 simultaneous cycles of betting)

  211. brokebookie says:

    @kaylan my first 2 lost & 3rd lay won and where i was on sequence that delivered a profit. So stake 3 points lost, stake 5 points lost, stake 8 point won! As i am laying below my unit stake then i made a profit!

  212. wanderer says:

    Brokebookie, did you have 2 single losers previously.This means you are down 10 x liability,then won 8 x stake.To me,the further you go down the Fib sequence,the more you are losing,depending on are recouping most previous losses,but not all,Am i right or wrong on that anyone?

  213. kaylan says:

    thebetengine and brokebookie,
    Sorry to confuse, I am following the method recommended if you are out at work by placing all 3 lays at once.

    Let’s say you start with £10 Lays, and have found three matches for the day. Simply place a ‘level’ £10 Lay on each of the three selections. Then consult your Betfair account when you get home to see if you have made a profit or loss overall on selections.If you lost overall on the day, then simply move up to
    the next stake in the sequence.

    Don’t think it is a very successful method I will revert back to individual lays with a gap in between.

    My error did not make it clear.

  214. brokebookie says:


    lets say your laying at 1.80 and on are on 4th step which is 3 points & using £10 stakes so;

    1st lay lost so 30 x £8 liability = -24
    2nd lay lost so 50 x £8 liability = -40
    3rd lay won so winning £80 minus BF comms = +76
    +12 overall
    What i meant was i won on the night, but of course i have previous losses from the 1-1-2 but as the author mentioned it relies on winning streaks together and the aim of the staking to get most of losses back
    As i say i am finishing with the Fibon staking & just concentrating on Revelation from Saturday its more simple & effective

    @kaylan – yes best on one per day save on confusion i did find the lowest to lay out of those that qualify the best way & so laying around 1.60 ish

  215. brokebookie says:

    With pre match trading i lay and back 0-0 based on their pointers then green up for profit on all scores before KO !! You can also do this in the O/U market & the 3.5 is best.

  216. gerry747 says:

    Just to give you guys some comparison. Remember I was doing this before FBB came out and I didn’t know any of Matt’s rules or info. Having said that, for the first year or so, I started laying on the o/u what you guys are doing. Just picked any game as long as the odds were below evens, no first rule as I didn’t have one. My strike rate was just as good as what Matt expects you guys to do, in fact it was slightly higher on average about 48%. This is why I mentioned I couldn’t understand that first rule, it made no difference to me apart from having more games to choose from. I was using straight recovery of 1 then.

    I realised with that strike rate, I could lay and back as the back bets had a slightly higher strike rate. This is when the money really started to add up, I was quids in. I started mixing it up, sometimes straight recovery, other times Fibonacci, the rest you know, very profitable. Also I had the advantage of not needing to have games spread apart with backing and laying the same game.

    Kaylan – just going back to your staking all at once using Fib, it does work, just got to be careful with your staking.

  217. rinti says:

    My comment got approved, you can check it few posts above. The bot offers free trial, so you have nothing to lose. Will post variation 2 soon, for now if you want more bets just remove the unsettled market condition. Also try your own tweaks you can run unlimited strategies, so why not try different things and compare results after.

  218. gerry747 says:

    Think I should clarify, when I say not needed games spread apart, I mean not having to wait a couple of hours before you can place your next bet. What you do need though is games to finish at different times so if they are only 10 minutes apart kicking off that’s OK, because the first game will finish slightly before the next allowing you ten minutes to place the recovery bet if needed. That sounds a bit confusing, just can’t think of a better way to put it. (late night)

  219. wanderer says:

    I’m going to do level stakes,and compound any profits as i don’t have the revelation.The author says you get 2-5 points a month at a 48% if using first 3.He keeps saying use a max of only 3 a day,so it’s interesting that Gerry got the same results using more.So you were using any game within the odds and a bit of liquidity Gerry.Were you at all selective on games,i ask as you mention high and low scoring leagues above?

  220. gerry747 says:

    Guys – ignore that very last post (load of claptrap) must get my brain in gear!

    wanderer – Picked any games that had very low odds, that’s it, not interested in the liquidity didn’t make any difference, one of my bets always had to win. It’s the unreliability of the results that makes it work.

    Just remember, this does not work at it’s best on level stakes even compounding. That’s what the reviewer did and look what happened to him. Also both Matt and Andrew advise Fibonacci, it’s up to you.

  221. gerry747 says:

    wanderer -sorry missed the other question, I picked lesser leagues if goals wanted, European if less goals needed. When I got to backing and laying, it didn’t make much difference.

  222. wanderer says:

    Sorry for being so thick Gerry.When you say one of your bets has to win,do you mean because you were backing and laying or that you were only laying but it would win somewhere in the Fib sequence.
    In the manual,he says that at £50 lays,using the Fib,you could make £600 – £1050 a month.Even if it’s bookies money and built up over time,how many people would or could be laying £1200 or £1700 further down the sequence.

  223. tom42 says:

    People with a 10grand bank that they are prepared to lose.

  224. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – Backing and laying, one bet has to win. Yep if you was laying £50 he’s right. If you was backing and laying, on about 200 matches a month, (your gonna like this) and lay £30 and back £20 you’ve made ten Grand!…. yes ten grand. 🙂 Am I right? too much wine last!…

  225. gerry747 says:

    tom42- you don’t need 10 grand, you can make £2,000 in a month with a betting bank of £500 backing and laying. Just don’t watch the stakes! 🙂 that’s the beauty of bots.

  226. brokebookie says:

    I think Matt & Andrew Davids now advise the revelation as number 1 staking plan as i had a members update from them many months ago if my memory serves me right.

    If i had £10,000 betting bank i would sink it into Revelation & start with £100 stakes, considering what i made with £10 starting stakes & £1,000 bank it would be awesome! Oh well maybe one day when i’ve built bank up!

  227. gerry747 says:

    brokebookie – Yep I think your right, I just meant use Fib till you get the Revelation, I certainly wouldn’t recommend level stakes, would you mate?

  228. graham says:

    Hi Gerry, Think you missed my question the other day. On the bot, what if either B or L matches the odds but the other one doesn’t? will the unmatched go onto the next bet.
    You just mentioned £30 lay stake, £20 back. I am finding at the moment the lays are winning more bets, is that your reason for the difference?

  229. wanderer says:

    All this talk of bots,can anyone reccomend something good to start with.

  230. gerry747 says:

    graham – I only looked first for the lay to be odds on, if so the back will be even shorter. Now this is great for our lays, we lose less than we staked. Unfortunately the back stakes are going to increase quicker on losing the back, because of very low odds. That’s why I adjust the stakes to be lower on the back bets to compensate a bit. It’s a bit of trial and error at first till your reasonably happy with it. If the lay matches as regards odds, that’s all that matters, obviously the back odds are going to be lower.

    You seem to be going against the norm with lays performing better. You can adjust in the opposite direction I suppose as regards your stakes. The averages usually are the other way.

    If this sound garbage again, please forgive me, got a thumping head, totally my own doing!

  231. gerry747 says:

    graham – both your bets should always get matched, your using recovery or fib, you’ve lost me there a bit mate?

  232. graham says:

    Wanderer, I am no expert, others on here are. I use Betsender which is very straight forward. There are plenty on the market, most giving a free trial. Betengine posts on here, and has a good reputation on another site, and reading between the lines, he maybe could automate FBB. Only my guess.

  233. wanderer says:

    Thanks Graham,this is a steep learning curve but i appreciate all the help.

  234. gerry747 says:

    graham – I will get the hang of what your saying if it kills me. You are using two instances of the bot, one for laying, one for backing. The odds are odds on for the laying and even lower for the backing. you are using some kind of recovery.

    How can you not get matched mate? you’ve lost me.

  235. 5aces says:

    Oh Gerry Gerry, you getting me all excited again. Ok say I find 10 matches. So I start with 1 point on back and 1 point on lay. Do I keep going with both sequences regardless. Obviously 1 sequence will win the first match. Say the back bet won. Do I start again with 1 point on back on next match and move up to 2 point lay on the lay sequence. Or do I stop the back bet until the lay sequence has won? Do I just keep going or would there be a time when I just stop all sequences and restart again. With only 2 outcomes there’s always going to be one sequence running am I correct?

    Thanks in advance.

    This is what this forum was all about in the first place. Its giving me the same buzz as when we were talking about the greyhounds.

  236. kaylan says:

    It may be a steep learning curve for you.
    It’s a bl***y great mountain for me mate.
    I also use bet sender bot, once purchased no further costs.
    Don’t be sucked into the associated betplan tho lost me a pile

  237. kaylan says:

    Hi 5aces
    Good to see you on here.
    Surprised it took you so long to join in

  238. graham says:

    Cheers Gerry, got that. I should explain. I am running two plans, 1) by the FBB book using fib. First bet today 4.00pm Viitoruc. 2) I am experimenting with bot, downloading ALL O/U matches, B/L on the next match that meets rule 2. Using fib. stakes. Yesterday in profit. today on match 3. Will see how it goes. Hope you feel better, I am typing quietly.

  239. gerry747 says:

    5aces – Hi there old friend, lets keep this simple, you’ve got your bot, just do two instances one laying one backing. Lower stakes on your backing than the lays, use a recovery or Fib and just see what happens, you can use simulation. Just let it run, the stats say you should have about 40% wins on the lays, so about 60% wins on the backing lays. Just let the recovery do it’s work and make the profits closing them down after each finishes on a winning bet. Phew! need a lay down now!…

    It’s very similar to the dogs really.

  240. kaylan says:

    Thanks for the info on the horse lays all doing well.
    Are you subscribing to RJP yet?

  241. gerry747 says:

    Guys to be fair to Matt, we’re off topic a bit here, we should be on the IGI thread, just a thought. Though I don’t think it’s doing any harm to Matt, his sales of FBB must have increased over the last couple of weeks.

  242. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – You won’t go far wrong with Betsender, like kaylan said, it’s a one off price, much cheaper in the long run than paying monthly.

  243. kaylan says:

    Gerry you say
    “Just let the recovery do it’s work and make the profits closing them down after each finishes on a winning bet.”
    Does that mean you start the sequence again or stop for the day?

  244. gerry747 says:

    5aces – that should say, 60% wins on the backing bets, gonna bed now, have fun.

  245. gerry747 says:

    kaylan- Stop when ever you like mate, bet all day if you like, I only meant just try to stop then when you’ve had enough on a winning bet on each bet, just like the dogs.
    Now I am going to bed, se ya!

  246. 5aces says:

    Hi kaylan.

    I didnt come on this forum as much because it didn’t have the same buzz as before. Just stuff that really didn’t benefit my betting. Now is what it use to be like. 😉

  247. rinti says:

    wanderer says:
    February 20, 2015 at 2:55 pm
    All this talk of bots,can anyone reccomend something good to start with.

    Well I not only did that but post exact pictures of how it can be done, maybe my reply got lost before it took took time to get approved.


  248. wanderer says:

    Kaylan,but you have already used a Bot so ahead of me there.Betsender would seem to be a good place to start.Happy to do this manually for now,but i see the potential of the bot for this or other things,even if only to automate the bet so i don’t have to sit here all day.The simulation thing looks good.I have downloaded a free one just for a play for now,Cymatic Trader.
    I am struggling to find selections.I agree with your first Graham,and then i look it’s laying the under,but Romanian Leagues are low scoring.Is that the point,just stick to the rules and bring no judgement into it.i.e.rely on the bookies getting it wrong?

  249. kaylan says:

    Know what you mean 5aces.
    Gerry’s take on the football could revive the spirits.
    Shame he is on the other side on the world, time wise.

  250. rinti says:

    The bookies always get it right mate, people get it wrong. That’s why bookies win and that’s why we use betfair which is not a bookie.

  251. kaylan says:


    Thanks for the info on your bots
    if it can be fully automated it would be great!

  252. wanderer says:

    I meant rely on the Betfair odds being wrong,over the longterm for this type of bet.

  253. rinti says:

    @wanderer I meant the same 😀 Don’t worry just follow the system, yes the odds are usually wrong and it happens the opposite that is what we want so perfect.

    @kaylan it can be, but it will be hard for me to explain how. If someone decided to buy the bot after the trial, we have a private forum only visible for owners and there I can send owners of the system the .xml file and explain things further, here I cannot do it without giving the rules, but my upper post is the base of the full automation, just a few tweaks.

  254. wanderer says:

    @ rintiThanks,i find as well as being strict to the rules,i’m also bringing judgement into it,otherwise i’d be on viitrial game by now.

  255. thebetengine says:

    Don’t want to pour water on the back/lay idea but in a simulation you are just as likely to make a loss overall as make a profit. In fact the losses can be horrendous.

    Simulated over 1000 matches at 10p per back / 20p per lay, with a win rate of 55-60% and a lay odds range in line with FBB:

    Run 1: -1072.73
    Run 2: 278.29
    Run 3: -8310.80
    Run 4: 551.49
    Run 5: -2534.22

    You can regularly get winning runs of 20 matches – this equates to 20 losing lays – and the stakes can get really high. A winning run of 20 was my cut-off; in reality it is much too high.

    Even if you restrict the number of consecutive losing lays (for example, resetting your stakes after 5 or 6 losses), you still get the same overall results [i.e. no consistent profit]

    I know this is not real-life and you may be able to target your betting, but on a straight simulation the figures don’t look great.

    The key here is the size of the winning/losing streaks but I don’t think we have any empirical info.

    Of course, my simulation may be flawed but if anyone is good with spreadsheets then putting together a simulation of this is not too difficult and I would be interested in seeing the results.

  256. rinti says:

    @wanderer don’t bring judgment in it, just follow the system, the moment you start to research the match and look at stats, you are doing exactly as most of the people out there and they are losing.


    I was thinking about something, Authors claim 50% win rate historically, but what I would like to know what was the longest losing run. Because 50 wins in a row and 50 losses in a row is still 50%

  257. rinti says:

    Wow, why did I post this before finishing my words to @thebetengine.

    Btw I just realized you are connected to the bot, the best one for horses but gave up on it a while ago because it does not offer other sports yet, little off topic.

    Are you using the Staking Machine for this simulation ?

  258. tom42 says:

    @rinti what private forum is that?

  259. rinti says:

    @tom42 – but there is a hidden section visible only for owners. The accounts are approved by the owner, not sure if he lets people in the private forum during the trial, email him, Rade is one of the nicest guys.

  260. thebetengine says:

    @rinti – just using Excel.

    At 50% win probability – max losing run was 21 (once)
    At 60% win probability – max losing run was 34 (once)

  261. thebetengine says:

    Forgot to add – at 50% win probability, the back/lay simulation makes a profit much more often.

    At 60% win probability, the simulation is more likely to end up at a loss.

  262. graham says:

    Kaylan, sorry only just seen your question. I have not joined RJP yet. I am still using his free ones, seems a bit mean, but I will wait for the review on here. Also This football with other things is giving me enough to do.

    Now, been watching FBB, noticed the lay bet we are on drops quite well in the first ten minutes. My current bet Viitoral, was 1.75, started 1.73. 10mins. later, 1.62, I slammed on. Just seen its a winning lay, fib. has got losses back.

    Is it worth waiting? if the bet had lost, I would have been £1.10 better off, to £10 stake. If a goal had been scored, first, it would be a no bet, carry on to the next. but a few of those, would increase the profit.

  263. rinti says:

    Graham, excellent idea, automating right now to compare results vs before kick off and 10 mins after.

  264. rinti says:

    Goving it a second though, the odds only fall on the under, the over it’s the opposite.

  265. tom42 says:

    unless you get a quick early goal.

  266. rinti says:

    How was the day for you guys ?

    For me 2.2 points up on level stakes did not get as much bets as expected, but tomorrow there are hundreds of matches, looking forward to it.

  267. graham says:

    rinti. Only found two matches today, but both won. So 3 pts, but that was partly due to Fib. getting back loss from yesterday.

  268. kaylan says:

    lost on all 3 individual lays today.

  269. rinti says:

    Kaylan on which matches did you bet ?

  270. gerry747 says:

    The betengine guy is right on the backing and laying, the stakes can get high, having said that, you do not let it get that high. Like I said before, if you think your having a bad day STOP! there is always tomorrow. Those days do not happen very often.

    If that was the norm, Football Bank Builder itself, would not work, just using Fibonacci you would wipe your bank out with up to 30 plus losing bets. Even the Revelation staking, can only take so many bets without wiping out, that is pure logic, it can’t go on a losing run forever. Matt never went through a full cycle of Fibonacci, so that tells you, the betengine guys run is not the norm.

    This is were “Rinti” and I disagree as regards not using any predictability, yes just doing FBB alone the unpredictability makes it work with about a 40% to 45% winning strike rate on the lays. Your stakes are going to be higher on the backing side in a long loosing run than laying because of the odds.

    In backing and laying, you need a little selection process to give you an edge, like I did using lesser leagues for goals and better leagues for no goals. Also I’ve found myself in the past, nothing ever seems to work the same in simulation as doing the real thing. Haven’t a clue why, but it just seems to be that way.

    If you want to make a lot of money, you can backing and laying. You need a really good size betting bank. You are betting using a bot to take out some of the emotion, having said that, you should keep checking periodically to make sure your stakes are not getting out of hand. This is not everyone’s cup of tea, most things I do seem to be like that. 🙂

    But all I can tell you, it does work if you use a little common sense. Just use your brain, stop if it’s looking to go bad, you will have many more winning days than losers. Just bet what you feel comfortable with. If your not happy, just stick to FBB which in my opinion is very good. Guys, that are always options!….

  271. rinti says:

    Gerry747, about the predictability, I said it because I think that can confuse new people and authors do suggest to stick to the rules and not trying to predict, of course everyone has their own vision and you have way more experience than me with this strategy.

    I’ve made my main aim now to make this strategy work on level stakes, let’s say it’s like a challenge to me, I am trying different things in order to do that, I believe I can do it, different from FBB but the base is on it. Why I want it to work on level stakes ? Every single other strategy that I have in my betting portfolio is working on level stakes and for that I run my bot 24/7 and not checking the bot for few days is no problem, level stakes never threaten my bank and I sleep better 😀

    A lot of things were discussed here and I believe some of the posts I wrote and other people wrote may actually confused people more than helped them, if there is a case like that, just follow the book it works exactly how it’s shown there.

  272. gerry747 says:

    Just to add, the reviewer never went more than 5 losing bets, ONCE! Take a look at Betting Systems Truths, he too never hit the losing run like the betengine did. Look at Betting Rant, the reviewer never hit a high losing run. When he started using the advised stakes, he turned a loss into a profit. The reviewers selections on MMR would have worked well on backing and laying.

    When you look at all the reviews and their stats, I would say stop at 7 as your cut off point. That way you haven’t lost too much and be able to recover it the next day, even if you have to increase your stakes a little to make it quicker.

    This is still gambling, there are no guarantees in the gambling world. There are those that do and those that just watch. If you want to make cash this way, you have to gamble. If it puts you through hell watching it, don’t do it, gambling is not for you.
    All this is just my opinion, you have to make your own mind up, good luck guys.

  273. gerry747 says:

    rinti – Yep I understand, as long as we both get to the winning post first, that’s all that matters mate! 🙂

  274. wanderer says:

    I had Santarcangelo v Tuttocuoio – won
    UTC Cajamarca v Alianza Atletic – lost
    Obviously not the same 2 as you Graham.
    @rinti How many selection did you have yesterday using your approach?
    Plenty to choose from today,good luck all.

  275. thebetengine says:


    I’m not saying the idea doesn’t work – just that caution is required.

    I repeatedly ran the simulation over 1000 bets. The odds were chosen completely at random as was the match outcome (although the match outcome was biased to give a rough order of win probablility).

    The overall win probability has a fairly big effect on the outcome.

    However, at the end of the day it is just a simulation and can never reflect what happens in real-life.

    It would be good to know what the longest losing runs are in a few months time. If the longest losing run is 5 then that would be great.

    Personally I love this sort of discussion. It gives us a great opportunity to discuss/expand on ideas. However, the MMR review-based structure is not an ideal mechanism for this – we need a proper forum so that discussions can take place without cluttering up the specific reviews of products.

    @MMR Admin – when is the forum that you spoke about going to be launched? I think you said end of January was a target.

  276. thebetengine says:

    I had the following games yesterday (there may have been a few more but many games kicked-off at the same time and I only follow 6 simultaneous games):

    Vitorul – win
    Orduspor – win
    Slaven – win
    G Furth – loss
    Petrolul – loss
    Santarcangelo – win
    Roda – loss

  277. gerry747 says:

    thebetengine – I really have no answer to your results, repeatedly running over 1000 simulations is a fair crack at it. All I know is and I think you would agree, if the results had such long runs especially in laying, the FBB would never work.

    You are right, it does clutter this thread, we only have the IGI for general discussion at the moment, and it’s getting rather long.

  278. kaylan says:

    hi rinti

    My picks yesterday were:-
    FC Liefering v B Munich – lost lay
    ASM Oran v US Chaouia – lost lay
    G Furth v SV Sandhausen – lost lay
    never herd of any of them!

  279. kaylan says:

    Not heard of them either

  280. tom42 says:

    kaylan, what are you laying

    the o/u 2.5 goals market
    the match odds market?

    The first one was an international friendly, is that allowed?

  281. gerry747 says:

    tom42- kaylan has his own set of rules!….. 🙂

  282. kaylan says:


    It could be rugby for all I know
    No one told me they were friendly
    Was definitely o/u 2.5 though

    I am not really very good at this!

  283. kaylan says:

    I have picked Middlesbrough v Leeds for my first one today.

    Hope they are not friendly? 🙂

  284. rinti says:

    They are not, don’t worry 😀 As for me I got 12 selections yesterday. It seems you landed on the losing ones.

  285. gerry747 says:

    kaylan – Remember you asked me? In Betfair I said click on the match and it told you on the left.

  286. rinti says:

    As for today I am expecting minimum of 50 selections. Already got 6, 5 wins, 1 loss.

  287. wanderer says:

    I’m on Middlesborough leeds too.

  288. kaylan says:

    We will hope for the best wanderer.

    I am obviously looking in the wrong place

  289. wanderer says:

    Far left,a third of the way down the page
    United Kingdom
    The Championship
    Middlesbrough v Leeds

    0-1 7 mins

  290. rinti says:

    The bot did not bet on Middlesbrough v Leeds I guess the 1 condition must have slipped 3 mins before kick off, but it’s not such difference 0.5-1, the bot just does not make exceptions 😀

  291. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – cheers, kaylan knows really, he’s just after a box doughnuts!…

  292. kaylan says:

    Mmm doughnuts !

  293. graham says:

    Wanderer, I posted a couple of hours ago,it seems to have disappeared. Yesterday, Viitorel match and Satacangelo, both win lays.

    Rinti, you say you sleep better, at 2.53am in the morning?

    Kaylan, are you sorted, I did write a short list, will repeat it if you need it.

    I do get confused,with some posts. Are they original FBB, Original FBB on bot, or Hybrid FBB on bot. Good luck for today all.

  294. kaylan says:

    Middlesbrough v Leeds – losing Lay
    Albion v E Stirling – winning Lay
    Might stop at a win as cannot take the excitement!

    Must have missed your list sorry.
    RJP came up trumps again today.

  295. graham says:

    Augsberg- win lay.
    Cordoba– in play
    Caen– 7.00pm On another site, a member says he only plays French and Italian lgs,

    Sounds like you are sorted now, but I made a simple checklist.
    1 check rule 1, when you find suitable teams click on their names, the markets will come up on the left, near the top it will state league or friendly, if useable, check rule 2 and the liability.

    I am being a bit cheeky, if it is an under market, I am waiting 5 mins for the odds to drop.
    3 out off 3 for RJP today. Sounds like he does quite well with win bets as well. Will see when MMR completes review. Good luck.

  296. rinti says:

    @graham I sleep through the day 😀

    Here are my results till now. It’s Hybrid FBB how graham said it, betting on every single match that fits the 2 conditions, liquidity women u21 and u19 does not matter.

    54 bets till now. 19.5 points up on level stakes after commission. More than 40 points up the last 4 days. I will be increasing stakes to 1 euro.

  297. rinti says:

    Forgot, average odds 1,85.

    I find England extremely profitable – blacked out odds too because someone may backfit the system.

  298. graham says:

    rinti, good answer, did not think of that.

    I am doing similar, but using fib. stakes, so not many bets, about 5 per day, because it can`t move on till it knows last result.
    Can you confirm, you are just doing the lay only.
    If you are doing level stakes, does the bot place the bet, then carry straight on to place the next bet, hence your getting 54 in total.
    I am about 5pts. up after 2 full days.

  299. rinti says:

    I gave up the fib staking exactly to get more bets.

    Yes I have setup the bot to no not have limitation of bets and to bet on every single match that fits, even if there are 500 matches starting at the same time and 300 fits the conditions it will bet on 300.

  300. rinti says:

    P.S I give no guarantee that what I am doing will bring profits long term, but I have enough experience and betting bank to allow myself such experiments.

    The exact rules to the letter in the .pdf will bring profits too, but slower, what I am aiming is faster, which will see where it gets me.

  301. wanderer says:

    Interesting approach Rinti,are you just following the 2 rules now aand not bothering with restrictions on the types of game or liquidity.It seems everyone has a different method,even if you stick strictly to the rules,you can pick varying selections.I’m just doing it as per the manual,i’ve had my 3 today but it’s tempting to have another match.

  302. rinti says:

    Yes wanderer exactly, I use only the 2 rules and don’t bother about leagues, friendlies, liquidity or anything at all 😀 I tried not betting on U21, U19 and (W) but these increase the profits, 18 points today without them 21 with them also noticed same thing last days. But I dare to say it’s impossible(ok too much time consuming) to be done manually 82 bets today, too much work.

    As about having another match, cannot remember who but someone mentioned he is running different sequences so you can bet on on like 5 different matches but the next bet is every time going to be different for the 5 sequences that is basically the same, we all get different sequences and you don’t have to limit yourself to 3 bets.

  303. wanderer says:

    Yesterday-Middlesbrough v Leeds lost
    Derby v Sheff Wed won
    Cordoba v Valencia won
    Caen v Lens won
    Although the manual says most times you will be laying the over,maybe because nearly all my games are European,nearly all mine have been the under.Always time for more goals,a couple of times,the bet has won before the end of the game so i can have another bet,using Fib.
    Went over the 3 yesterday,could have had 1 more ,but i seem to prefer places i’ve heard of.
    11 games since 17th 5 losers,6 winners.)0.83 pts profit to level stakes,3.83 profit using Fib.
    Rinti,great results for you,long may it continue.Are you still way over the%48 strike rate,it looks like you are.

  304. kaylan says:

    Tottenham v West Ham 1st pick today

  305. gerry747 says:

    kaylan – Good pick, I tell you what I noticed over time. The closer the odds between the lays and overs, I got more winning bets. Example, under 2.5 1.90 over 2.5 2.10

    A lot of guys only pick the shortest odds, say about 1.65. I found you had more losing bets on these compared to when the over and under were closer together. It was obvious Betfair not quite sure which way the game would go, just my opinion.

  306. graham says:

    Gerry, is it possible to put rule 1, the one you don`t use, into Betsender. I have looked. On a couple of quick tests, my winning percentage is way below Rinti`s. He is including R.1.

  307. gerry747 says:

    graham – Never tried mate, so don’t really know. Rinti is doing a lot of bets, also remember you won’t always have the same selections. Rinti has his own way of doing this, I wouldn’t worry too much as long as you make a profit in the end.

    I just picked my matches, put them in manually and let it run, just made sure of the rule 2. Of course you can put them in manually checking rule 1 before you do.

  308. gerry747 says:

    graham – I still can’t see the need or reason for rule 1
    I must have done thousands of bets, and my winning strike rate was as good as Matts and better than the reviewers. He must have some reason for it, but it didn’t make any difference to me.

  309. wanderer says:

    A lot that fit rule 2 ,also fit rule 1.Ignoring rule 1,loads don’t fit rule 2.Maybe just to cut selections down as he only wants 3 a day.

  310. graham says:

    Gerry cheers. just set a batch of ten matches off with both rules, input manually, will see how that goes.

    Thanks for bringing this FBB to our attention, I am sure the basic method is going to produce a profit

  311. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – There’s another thing, how does only finding 3 a day make any difference? The stats show over years and hundreds of bets to be on your side.

    Look as you know, I think this is a great little system because of the stats and the unpredictability of football results, and it worked well for me and still does.

    Now I don’t want to knock it or offend Matt or Andrew because I think they are both genuine guys. But, I do think there is a little padding so to speak in the presentation of this product when you get it and read it. To make it a little bit more involved than it actually is.

    A lot of marketeers do this, just to give it a bit more thought to make you think your getting your monies worth, just my opinion.

  312. gerry747 says:

    I’m probably gonna get shot down now!….

  313. wanderer says:

    I hadn’t thought of that Gerry.There are loads of things you are not bothering about,just assumed he had some stats to show it made a difference.,yet your experience shows it doesn’t matter.It will be interesting to see how this works for everyone.

  314. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – I can only go on my experience of doing this, I didn’t have any info because it wasn’t out, just something that came to me because of the odds and the unpredictability. Maybe there are reasons, I don’t know. But it works and that’s all that matters. I haven’t done much on it this week, but I’ve made over a £100 quid, but that is backing and laying. But I still say, till you have confidence in this, stick to Matt’s rules.

  315. gerry747 says:

    I’ve just had a phone call from our football betting fanatic at work, a little problem with a computer. While we was chatting, I asked him how he was doing with this?

    He told me he has just had his best month ever in January, he made, Wait for it! over one hundred thousand dollars!.. (100,000) one hundred thousand dollars in one month!…

    Now let me just add, that is one hundred thousand (100,000 ) Hong Kong dollars! 🙂 about just over £8,300 quid if my memory is correct. He’s just put a deposit down on a condo in Tianjin. Just shows you the potential of this little system, eh?

    Right guys, it’s my bed time, have fun, good luck…

  316. kaylan says:

    Which begs the question,

    Why work for a living?

  317. rinti says:

    Good night Gerry and good morning to me 😀

    Gerry, I will be putting a strategy only following rule 2 into simulation, interesting what the results will show comparing to the strategy with rule 1, I think it will be interesting for everyone.

  318. rinti says:

    I am confused or maybe still not woken up. But isn’t only using the second rule going to give more selections that using both ? Because Gerry said using the first rule actually gives him more selections, isn’t it the opposite ?

    I will look into that 😀

  319. wanderer says:

    Doesn’t he only use the 2nd rule which does give more selections,i’m confused too.

  320. thebetengine says:

    There is a danger that we are talking about different things!

    You could argue that Rule 1 is where to look for the selections (i.e. which list on Betfair).

    Or, you could argue that Rule 1 is the first filter that is applied.

    Personally, I think there are 4 rules:

    1. Where to look.
    2. First filter.
    3. Second filter.
    4. Liquidity

    @gerry747 – which one is your Rule 1 ?

  321. rinti says:

    I think that there are 2 rules 😀 it’s gettng confusing.

    1st one for me is the one that looks for the gap of 0.7
    2nd for the gap of 0.39

  322. thebetengine says:

    I suspect that is the case for most people as it is the most likely interpretation.

    However, I want to double-check with gerry747 (I suspect his Rule 1 is the the first filter applied)

  323. graham says:

    Rinti, looking forward to your next run. On your results sheet, you are showing win SR. of 60%. On my mini runs, using only No. 3 in Betengine list, I have not hit 40%. I am now running sample including no.2 (list above), to see if it increase`s

    Two matches today on original FBB, 1 win 1 lose. since half day tues. up 5.59pts. before comm. Beginners luck?

  324. rinti says:

    My system is running to 3 points loss today, overall 37 points in profit from the last days and there is still time to turn the day into profiting one, started bad but improving.

  325. kaylan says:

    Not a good day all 3 teams lost the lay bets for me today.

    Tottenham v West Ham –
    Hamburg v Mgladbach –
    KV Mechelen v Lierse –

  326. gerry747 says:

    thebetengine – Rule 1 to me is the draw odds, rule 2 is the over under odds, that’s it for me.

    As for where to find it, well, what can you say,:-)

    Liquidity, never really give it a thought, as most games just before kick off usually have plenty.

    Got to remember, when I started, I was just looking for odds on laying, with only two possible outcomes, that’s all I thought about and the unpredictability to give me a chance.

    Remember a little padding just might be involved, but that’s OK!…

  327. gerry747 says:

    rinti – good morning, will be all ears mate on your strat!..

  328. gerry747 says:

    rinti – I only use rule 2, not 1.

  329. gerry747 says:

    To to try and clear up any confusion this is what I do. First I have a look at the days games in flashscore just to give me an idea what’s happening. Then I go into Betfair, click on football and in each match, I just look at the over/under odds. Any that fall in the the range, I bet them.

    Now depending which side of the bet I’m doing, remember I like lesser leagues for goals and European for less goals. I may avoid some of those games if I’m not happy and they don’t fall into my preferences.

    Basically that is it, I don’t bother about the draw odds or the liquidity, why should I? one of my bets is going to win. It’s the unpredictability of the results and the recovery that gets me my profit.

    Guys don’t read too much into this, keep it simple. It is a daft little system, in fact it’s not even a system, we just win because football is so unpredictable. It’s because of the odds on we can get away with it. No need to make it harder than need be, just my opinion.

    Some people want to try this and that and create all kind of strategies, fair enough if that makes them happy. But why go to all that trouble, if I can make over 20K just plonking bets down and know because of the stats and history I’m going to win, why make it bloody harder than needs be, each to their own I suppose. I did all the above the same even when I was only laying and it still worked OK.

    Our guy who won over 100,000K he does exactly the same as me, or sometimes he has two banks running doing one on just the lays. He’s 25 years old, bloody crazy, buys everything Steve D throws at him. But he makes most of his cash doing this now by himself, but he does belong the syndicate.

    He has a string of Chinese girl friends, comes to work in a car that puts mine to shame. Believe me, if he can do it, so can you, just don’t quit easily, it does work. I’ve noticed, just how many quit something when they don’t get off to a flying start.

  330. wanderer says:

    Tottenham v West Ham Lost
    Academico de Viseu v Atletico CP Lost
    Genk v Anderlecht Lost
    Fiorentina v Torino Lost

    Not a good day for me either.

  331. rinti says:

    Gerry thanks. But I can confirm using only the second condition gives more selections.

    Also starting another simulation, laying and backing the same selections with loss recovery(thanks for the idea). What loss recovery would would you recommend ?

    My bot has the following options:
    Loss recovery rate: if a loss of 15 is made and the rate is 33% it will try to recover it in 3 bets, if 100% in one
    Amout of loss to recover: if 1 euro is lost how much of it to recover
    Number of losses in loss pot: how much losses at once to aim to recover

  332. gerry747 says:

    rinti – I only use the second rule (condition) First rule, draw odds, don’t use, second rule, over/under odds, do use! (god give me strength) 🙂

    I used both Fib and lay recovery, (Betsender Strat) on a setting of 1 for lay recovery, don’t know your bots strats or settings.

    Just read your bot options, find it easier to read a 747 flight deck!….. 🙂 good luck mate!

  333. MMR admin says:

    @Gerry – your comment:

    “Our guy who won over 100,000K he does exactly the same as me, or sometimes he has two banks running doing one on just the lays. He’s 25 years old, bloody crazy, buys everything Steve D throws at him. But he makes most of his cash doing this now by himself, but he does belong the syndicate.

    He has a string of Chinese girl friends, comes to work in a car that puts mine to shame. Believe me, if he can do it, so can you, just don’t quit easily, it does work. I’ve noticed, just how many quit something when they don’t get off to a flying start”.

    sounds like all those sales promotions – with pictures of flash cars and beautiful women and headlines claiming 100k wins! Sure you aren’t trying to sell something here!? 🙂

  334. gerry747 says:

    Michelle – When have I ever? 🙂 just trying to point out he does this footy the same way.

    Having read it again, I see what you mean. Looking forward to when you can get it reviewed again. It is a good little product, of course with any kind of gambling, a bit of luck always helps!

  335. kaylan says:

    Any advice on a pick today?

  336. wanderer says:

    Struggling myself ,plus a long way down the Fib sequence.

  337. kaylan says:

    Thinks I will just use rule 2 and go for the first one I find.

  338. gerry747 says:

    kaylan/wanderer – Look at the odds and the type of bet you would have. Do you need goals or not. Then go into Look in the H2H look at the last 5 games these teams played each other. It will give you a good idea how many goals in each match they average.

    I know you should just pick the games according just to the rules. The stats say you will win every few games or so. Having said that, a little research can help. I said above if the games don’t fit depending on which way you bet, I avoided them.

    Just been reading the FBB again, Matt makes a very interesting comment. You must have the right mindset and try to become numb to your losses. You don’t see the professional gambler jumping up and down when he has a win. Also he hides his emotions when he loses. It’s all part of the process, winning and losing. Think positive, the stats are really on your side!

    Till you can do this without thinking about what to do next, it does require a little effort. After that, you do it without thinking. Nothing in life is gained without some kind of input, you can do this guys, keep your chin up!

  339. gerry747 says:

    kaylan – “Thinks I will just use rule 2 and go for the first one I find.” Your right, I do believe I’m getting to know you. That comment above says it all!……

    Come on mate, your a Yorkshire man, where’s the fire in the belly eh?

    My doughnut gone soggy now!…. 🙁

  340. wanderer says:

    Gerry,that is what i’ve been doing as there were so many games,going to the flash scores site you mentioned and using a bit of common.Just happens to be going the wrong way at the moment.I’m on A Turkish game at 4.30.I laid the under,looking at the stats,they both seem to be scoring.Is that what you mean,i really only looked at the last 3 games though.

  341. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – Yep that’s it, just gives you a little info how they did before. Check the last 5 games at the bottom of the page in the H2H.

    I know losing runs are hard to take, but we must remember, this is gambling. If I knew of a 100% win rate, you’d be the first to know! 🙂

    Just remember, every review I’ve seen done on this including MMR’s you would have made a profit using recovery staking.

  342. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – and others, Don’t forget, till you have confidence in this, you should be only betting pennies or even paper trading. I did mention this some time ago. Don’t rush in and expect to make a packet over night, just my opinion.

  343. graham says:

    I am sticking to min. BF stakes for the time being. Could not find anything so far today, without bending the rules. Will check again later. But the rules do not say you have got to bet each day, or that you can`t have less than 3. So patience, methinks.

  344. graham says:

    You don`t look very happy Kaylan, why`s that?

  345. brokebookie says:

    Yes wise words Gerry747, i think its called footie bankbuilder for a reason, it builds bank overtime & has done for me.
    @wanderer, stick to one game per day mate if using fibonaci thats what i do & i lay the lowest one in price to lay out of those that qualify on the day.I certainly wouldnt have layed in the Academico de Viseu v Atletico CP you mention – who are they?

    If your worried about going up the Fibonaci sequence then just get the Revelation, since getting it i do more than one game per day & even went 7 & 8 losses in a row & it still turned it around into profit – how good is that!
    Tip! Start small, very small, & that way you wont mind losses at he higher end, then just re-invest

  346. wanderer says:

    Altinordu v Giresunspor lost.
    Cagliari v Inter won.
    Brokebookie,thanks for the advice,i’ve been trying to find 3 a day,hows it going for you results wise on the one a day,lowest price?
    I’ve been trying to pick better quality European games,the one you mention must have had good liquidity and prices,I am just doing small stakes and trying to get e feel for it,but am down Fib and level.The revelation sounds good,Fib doesn’t get all your losses back,i wasn’t offered it though.So many different approaches,you one a day,rinti doing loads

  347. thebetengine says:

    @wanderer – why not contact Andrew or Matt (there should be an email address in the PDF) and explain that you recently bought through the FootballBankBuilder site rather than Canonbury, not realising that you would not be offered the Revelation staking plan.

    That way, you might be lucky and they may add you to the list.

  348. kaylan says:

    Hi Graham
    Still not doing well with FBB. I do not purposely disregard the rules as Gerry suggests.
    Just no nothing about teams or relevant matches which qualify.
    Only lost pennies so far so not a problem.
    I am finding it very time consuming trying to find the right pick only to find hours later that I got it wrong again. I will stop and consider going back to square one.
    Hope you are doing well with it.

  349. gerry747 says:

    kaylan – Sorry your not doing so well with this. I was only joking with you about the rules as regards bending them, hope it improves for you.

  350. graham says:

    Hi Kaylan, I go through the list, about 11.30am, try to find 3/4 matches, note the times and check back near each time, to see if they qualify. On the Betting Rant site, two members said,they use only the French lgs. and the other only uses French and Italian matches, and they have increased their % profit and SR.
    I am biding time, trying to get some experience, and waiting for the Rev. SP.
    Hopefully, you will get some losses back, on BT Horse lays today.

  351. thebetengine says:

    @kaylan There is no right and wrong.

    The selections will change throughout the day as they are based on market odds.

    What graham says is a good way to approach it – but even that is no guarantee that the bet is a “good” one.

    I’m running at very low stakes just trying to get a feel for the whole thing.

  352. thebetengine says:

    @kaylan Three matches to consider – Brighton, Watford, Man City (they all meet the rules at the moment)

  353. gerry747 says:

    thebetengine – I have to agree with you, there is no right or wrong. There is the rules that Matt states and anyone just starting it’s probably best to follow them. I have my own way of doing this, as will others once they get into it and do what works best for them.

    Basically it’s the unpredictability of the results and the recovery using progressive staking that we get our profits. A little research can help in that you will miss a few losing bets, but it doesn’t always work. All I know is that over years the stats show the results constantly swing one way or another, which is how we can win.

  354. kaylan says:

    Thanks for all the info and advice much appreciated.

  355. brokebookie says:

    Its far better just to use Footie Bankbuilder on one match per day & lay around an hour before the off. Odds move very little in the O/U from one hour before KO anyway.
    Thats the big plus using it with the Revelation is that you can miss a day here or there & it wont matter long term and thats what i have found so far.

  356. johnlynch says:

    Might seem a daft question broke,but whats the thinking behind only laying one match per day ?

  357. gerry747 says:

    It’s gone a bit quiet on here, no one making any cash or they’re keeping it a secret? Of all the stand alone little products doing it my own way, I’m made more cash on this type of betting than anything. I can’t understand why no one is posting how they are doing. For me the options of finding more games has improved because I’m back in the UK, see what happens!…

  358. wanderer says:

    For me ,after a fib sequence,lost any profits and more.Since then a few more steps back ,am on Las Palmos v Tenerife today.How many games are you doing a day Gerry? i’m being fairly selective and am finding 1 or 2 a day,2 or 3 weekends as per the book.Are you still finding the laying profitable being less selective?I know about the backing and laying but can’t really work it out.I’ve got a free trial on betsender ,haven’t a clue what i’m doing but see a lot of potential using it.How’s everyone else doing on this?Rinti doing loads,brokebookie 1 a day,Kaylan?

  359. kaylan says:

    Found that FBB was taking me to long for no return. Racked up a long run of losses due to picking wrong teams all the time so decided it’s not for me. I have this dislike thing about the game which prevents me having any enthusiasm for the system. I am sure it will work for those who are prepared to stick with it. I am better with the four legged systems
    Appreciated all the help from everyone and wish you all the best of luck.

  360. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – It varies, but about between 3 to 10 games a day, of course more on a weekend. The only selection filter I add is when I check on flashscore if the previous games show the opposite to what I need as regards goals, then I avoid those games. Yep I’m backing and laying. Other than needing the odds and the above I’m not that selective. The unpredictability of the results seem to do it for me. I’m great believer in “KISS” keep it simple stupid!…

    Find it hard to understand some not making a profit at this. I’ve had the odd losing day and week, I think in over 4 years I’ve had only one losing month and that was very little!

  361. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – Just to add, the backing and laying is simple, the bot works it out for you using the staking strategies. You just use two instances of the bot, one for backing and the other for laying. you use the same games of course on both.

  362. wanderer says:

    Thanks.I’ve just about worked out how to run 1 staking plan,how do you run 2 instances at the same time on betsender.Are you using the Fib or another staking plan.

  363. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – Once you have Betsender page up go back to the icon and click again and a second page will appear. You can do this as many times as you want. You just then set each instance to what ever you want to do independently. I use fib and lay recovery or backing recovery. Have a read of the Betsender manual a few times till you can do it without thinking about!…. 🙂

  364. wanderer says:

    Welcome back Gerry.Before you posted i,i re read the manual and have worked out how to create shortcuts to different instances of the bot,thanks.See if i can try an run a simulation of back and lay while i keep doing the lays as per FBB.Why did you set the back stakes lower than the lay?

  365. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – The reason I do the back lower is on laying it’s odds on, so your stakes don’t increase as quick as backing, because if you have a losing bet you lose less than your stake. So I try to even things out a bit, by doing half the stake on the backing as to the laying. When both bots finish on a winning bet, the two together is your profit. When you reach a profit your happy with, just close each bot in turn after a winning bet! simples! 🙂

    It really is simple once you’ve done it a few times. Very profitable, just needs a bit of effort, no good if your the type who wants everything delivered on a plate. I find a lot of guys don’t give things a fair go and quit, swapping from one product to another, big mistake in my opinion, but each to their own. Maybe if they just took a step back and add up how much they’ve made at gambling over the years, then they just might see why, there is no golden goose!….

  366. wanderer says:

    I get you on the odds and stakes,thanks for the explanation.When both Bots finnish on a winning bet,this can’t be the same game though can it.I still can’t see why your winning and losing bets don’t cancel each other out though,i need to try it.Going to have to keep the boy though,even just laying their free tips would seem to be profitable.

  367. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – It just hasn’t clicked yet has it, yes they cancel each other out on one bet. Example first bet the lay is a winning bet, so back loses. Next game the back wins, the recovery staking does it’s job and you’ve profited from both bets. Same goes for the laying side. You will not get both bots to finish on a winning bet at the same time. One finishes on a win bet, wait for the other to do the same later. It’s over a period of time and games, providing you have a few winning lays and back bets, wait for it… You can’t lose!…..

  368. wanderer says:

    If you are doing 10 games a day,presumably they overlap,how does the bot go about the staking as it won’t know the results?Sorry for all the questions but i will get it.

  369. almodrama says:

    Hi guys,

    I’m going to buy this very interesting (from what I’ve read) system but have one easy question.
    Do I have to use Betsender to place bets or it’s just your decision to make things quicker and spare more time?

  370. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – Just use several instances of the bot so the games on each instance does not over lap, next question? 🙂

  371. gerry747 says:

    almodrama – Hi, you don’t have to use a bot, but it does make it easier, you do need it if you was backing and laying like me as it would be too hard to work the recovery stakes out.

  372. wanderer says:

    Scratches head,does this mean you are running more than 1 lay and back bank at the same time in effect,just let the stacking plans run their course.

  373. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – Forget about the bank, as long as you have enough to cover the bets. Your using Betfair, your bank balance will go up and down, it’s when you finish all bots on a winning bet, you see what profit you’ve made.

    Keep it simple, I think your making this harder for yourself than you need to. Reading your comments, your being rather selective, a little fussy at times you said, just go with the flow mate, have fun. Think positive, and ignore the negative comments. Phew! think I’ll go back to work for a rest, at least the computer fly’s the bloody thing!

  374. wanderer says:

    I’m doing the system by the book Gerry but also interested in what you are doing and others.As by the book,i’ve had 7 winners and 14 losers so far which would explain losses at level stakes and Fib.Hopefully the strike rate will go up a bit over time.

  375. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – I take that the winners and losers are a little mixed. By that I mean not 7 straight winners then 14 losses on the trot. If you had a couple or so winners together, then 2 or 3 losers together and so on, it would have been ideal for backing and laying with a profit. If you’ve hit straight 14 losers, you’ve been really unlucky, none of the reviews I’ve seen have done that.

  376. wanderer says:

    Basically a winner/loser or 2 ,then lots of losers until getting some back ,this is happening again now.Just unlucky to get a couple of runs like that right at the start.
    Out of curiosity,i noted the 1st 5 games when i looked that qualified with just the i rule.All 5 won.I’m now running a simulation of backing and laying on a few games,i’ll be amazed if i’ve set it up right,but i’m quite pleased with what i’ve learnt the last few days.

  377. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – You’ll get there, don’t worry, we all have to start at the beginning. Should have been with me on my first decent and landing!… sick bags all round!….. 🙂

  378. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – BTW, I’m in the UK for a few months, so if you get stuck, I’m on same time zone as you now, assuming your in the UK.

  379. johnner says:

    wanderer- just thinking out loud here.

    maybe this could help in your quest to keep losses to a minimum.

    its a compounding software backing at level stakes rather than the hairy stake recovery plan which could get out of control with odds on backing. sounds like it could minimise losses on the lay side at the same time.

    I dont have it so cant comment on its efficiency but thought it might suit you or anyone who may be nervous about long losing lays with fbb or anything else even. maybe worth the one off twenty quid? you can see examples of it in the graphics on the site.
    hope this helps.

  380. hrr says:

    @ johnner

    Compound-magic yes johnner is right i build this software for a Vender and small odds do count up to nice profits

  381. graham says:

    Gerry, I heard there was a shortage of chips at Harry Ramsden`s. This week has been hard for me to find many games that fit the rules, so have just stuck to one big game usually in the evenings.
    Inter. game just lost for me, but for this week, 3.24pts profit, so hoping it keeps going.

  382. gerry747 says:

    graham – The biggest haddock and chips I could find mate!

  383. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – Don’t waste your money on Compound Magic, It’s one of Steve Davidson’s, enough said!…

    You can do exactly the same strategy on your bot for free!….

    Besides, FBB does not work well on compounding, just look at what happened to the reviewer above, don’t people read?

  384. hrr says:

    @ gerry747

    I think his is referring to me on my 1st add i tried to do on me own for the 1st time

    The reviewer above

  385. johnner says:

    gerry747- I agree with you about most sd methods and systems are rubbish but compound magic is a betting tool,not a system.

    having re read my own post above I did not make it clear I meant it to be used as a way of backing fbb selections alongside losing periods with the laying side.

    some people will not have the required large betting bank to use recovery stakes for odds on selections if backing as well and thought this just might be a more handy way of doing it. though not as profitable as recovery stakes, it would be more gentle on the wallet and the old ticker of course! just meant it at wanderer and other people in the same situation who may be worried at losing periods with the lays.

    of course if it can be done with a bot then thats twenty quid saved.

  386. gerry747 says:

    johnner – Yep I see what you mean, I was just pointing out to wanderer that he could do it for free, as he’s just got the Betsender bot and all the strategies including percentage compounding are on it.

    FBB would be a struggle trying to profit just compounding, you only have to look at all the review sites who tried just compounding, didn’t work.

  387. wanderer says:

    Thanks for the tip johnner,i did wonder if the percentage staking plan on betsender was similar.
    I didn’t realize other reviewers had a problem with level stakes,the author says it still works.Using Fib 3 more losers and a winner.I’ll keep going with this as its small stakes but it would take ages to even get stakes back, worse than level stakes for me.I actually managed to run a simulation on the bot,so will keep doing that as people seem to be making different approaches work.

  388. johnner says:

    gerry & wanderer

    no probs guys. best of luck with fbb however you do it.

  389. lev1910 says:

    @gerry747 can i PM you gerry about your strategy rather than talking on the forum? I can give you my skype or email address on here if it’s allowed?

  390. gerry747 says:

    lev1910 – Hi, which strategy are you referring to? Email address not allowed to be posted. If it’s a strategy I’ve mentioned on mmr , no reason not to talk about it on here.

  391. lev1910 says:

    Hi gerry. I’m referring to the strategy on this page. I’ve read everything on here but still not sure how your doing it. Do I Need to buy fbb to get a proper understanding of this or is it you are just backing and laying under/over any football match using a fib recovery method until you hit a winner? I would just like to know from start to finish how you do this using the ‘manual’ method if you can help me or maybe I’m just thick and don’t understand! Cheers gerry.

  392. gerry747 says:

    lev1910 – Hi, to be fair to Matt, this thread is really for FBB. The quickest way to understand it, is purchase it, try it out. You have nothing to lose as it has a 30 day refund policy.

    Actually all the info of how I do it is above, maybe some on the IGI thread. Instead of just laying like the FBB, I back and lay, that’s the only difference. Your using recovery staking, so when a losing bet recovers on both back and lay, you make a profit.

    You need a betting bot to do this, it works the stakes out for you. You can do it in simulation to get a feel for it. It’s not that difficult, just put the selections in manually. Use a bit of common sense, if you have a bad run, quit for the day.

    I’m surprised more are not doing this, it’s almost a licence to print money. Just look at the reviewers results and selections. If he’d followed the best advised staking method, he’d have been quids in!….. instead of a loss. I’m still doing it when I’ve got time, made over £200 last week.

    A lot of the problems in my opinion, some guys are just not prepared to put some effort in and learn. If it doesn’t work straight away, they’re onto the next product. It’s the old story, patience, money management, don’t get greedy, be prepared to learn.

    No bull, if you really get into this and learn as you go, it’s not hard, you will make a lot of money, if I can do it, so can you!… 🙂

  393. lev1910 says:

    Okay gerry Thanks very much for responding I’ll buy the fbb and start using it with the recommended staking plan as you stated and see how it goes. As for the betting bot I’ll leave that just now obviously until I’ve got the full understanding of the system under my belt. It it makes money I’ll book a flight to Barbados and I hope you’ll be my captain lol!

  394. lev1910 says:

    Have I Got this right gerry so using a bot and a recovery of 1 basically for both back and lay side one of your bets always wins and the other is always in recovery is that right?

  395. gerry747 says:

    lev1910 – Yep that’s basically it, you might go two or three bets on one side or the other, then it recovers when the other side has a winning bet. If you look at the reviewers results above, he only went to five bets without a win, and that was only once.

    If I was you I’d just do the FBB till you feel confident, it’s a good little method on it’s own, plus you don’t need a bot.

    You’ll have a long wait to catch me on a “Barbados” flight!…. 🙂

  396. lev1910 says:

    Thanks gerry. Looking at 1 of your previous posts you stated your strategy can work with ANY football game ie back and lay using recovery method with a bot. How can that possibly work if you have games starting at the same time or have I misunderstood something?

  397. gerry747 says:

    lev1910 – It can work with any games, I use a little caution, check in flashscore,look at previous games the two teams have met, depending if you want goals or not. If it looks dodgy, avoid those games. You just have to use more than one instance of the bot if the games start at the same time. Just try to put a few games together on each instance that don’t overlap to let your recovery work. Just a little planning and effort is all it takes. There are always options!…..

  398. gerry747 says:

    lev1910 – You know,the bookies are clever, but not as clever as they think, there are always ways to beat them. It’s just knowing how, and this only comes with patience and learning. I try to think outside the box a little. Like a lot of people, years ago I made lot’s of stupid mistakes and bought garbage. It’s okay as long as you learn from your mistakes, that’s what really counts.

  399. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – How you doing with FBB, you managed to turn it around ?

  400. johnlynch says:

    On a losing run of seven at the moment, but am confident rev staking will pull it around.

    brokebookie says he had nine losers on the bounce,but still made a profit for the month.

  401. wanderer says:

    No Gerry,had 2 long losing runs doing it by the book using the Fib,no problems as small stakes,but seems it would take a couple of months to even get stakes back.I’m going t try the same,but with recovery staking on the back and lay,nothing much happened yet but only a couple of days in.I did the original plan to the book,but just seemed to pick twice as many losing lays,despite looking at recent form.All a matter of timing,if those runs came 6 months in no probs,but so early on doesn’t fill me with confidence.I wonder how everyone else is doing on this,gone a bit quiet resultswise.

  402. wanderer says:

    Appreciate your help Gerry,certainly not given up on this by the way.

  403. brokebookie says:

    I was 18 points down at one stage and the Revelation pulled it around in the and then went on a nice winning run to make a +22 point gain! So a 38 point swing. All these plans are long term a bit like shares & that’s how i view it, they will go down & stay there for time but overall they pull round & move ahead permanently in end.
    Stick to one a day Wanderer and use shortest price to lay is my advice, works for me!

  404. wanderer says:

    I don’t have the revelation,but fib didn’t seem to work as you don’t recover stakes when on longer losing runs.I’ll try recovery.I’m used to backing and horses,so forgive the question,but when you say the lowest price to lay,do you mean the lowest numerical laying price,the one with least liability.i really like the idea of slow,steady with less selections.

  405. brokebookie says:

    I dont think the fib is to recover all loses per say, its just to protect the bank by recovering most previous losses back. Then when you get the winning runs you can move ahead. Thats what i’ve found anyway.
    @ Wanderer – Yes the lowest qualifier in terms of libility

  406. wanderer says:

    @brokebookie thanks,i wasn’t 100% we were talking about the same thing as laying is new to me,most of my picks have been that lower half of the odds range.Do you just pick the lowest odds,or attempt to check previous results.I admire your discipline,i must admit i would probably want to pick 2 weekends.

  407. 5aces says:

    Right, when everything else at this moment in time is falling apart, footie bankbuilder is holding its own. Like Gerry I missed out the first rule and found more games.

    I find my games in the morning and have them at least 2 hours apart so I can use progressive loss recovery staking. Don’t even let the fav odds put you off. I have a few games where fav was 1.25 to 1.49 and the bet still came in. As long as rule 2 is within the odds range its a selection.

    Since testing on 18th March 17 games 5 losing bets so quite a high strike rate of 70.5 %. I presume it may well fall back in line later down to around 40%.

    Kaylan, maybe give this another look.

  408. kaylan says:

    Might well do that 5aces, I like Gerry’s approach which is similar to the old Jetsender on the dogs.

  409. gerry747 says:

    Yep I have to agree guys, my footie bank builder (which I didn’t buy!) is going good and the backing and laying version is also good.

    Come on Kaylan, give it another go, eh?

  410. hrr says:


    If you can email me the rules for Gerry’s Bank Builder, I will build a software to get the team with your rules and print the teams to csv file,

    I will send you a copy over when its ready

    The system will be a 1 click and show all the teams for that day, with The Rules

  411. graham says:

    5aces, just checking, you say you have taken 1.25-1.49, then say so long as rule2 is met. Does not match up. I am gaining confidence with this, had a good week. Still on basic £2 stakes using fib. Waiting for Rev. before boosting stakes. Although in his manual Andrew says most bets come from the overs, I find most of mine (so far) have come from the unders.

    Kaylan, try going back to basics. Use it manually, to start. Try one match a day, using fib. and water it down, Use 112358 etc. This gives you an extra bet at the beginning. Remember this can be played at level stakes. Having found a match, I go inplay for 5 minutes, and let the odds drop (unders odds).If a goal comes just move onto another match. Good luck.

  412. gerry747 says:

    hrr – “Gerry’s Bank Builder” don’t think Matt would be too chuffed about that! 🙂 Can give you them here, it’s simple, no secrets. Look for any home team with odds of 2.5 or slightly above, but never below. Go for the games with the biggest gap odds wise between home team and away. Away team must be higher. I usually do just two games a day.

    All you do is adjust your stakes so that if only one single wins, you lose nothing. So it’s two singles, and a double. You can make more as 5aces pointed out by compounding at say 5%.

    If I’ve missed anything, I’m sure the guys will point it out Kevin.

  413. hrr says:

    Thanks Mate is this yours or Matt’s system i don’t want to step on anyone’s feet


  414. gerry747 says:

    Just to add, the other is the same as Matt’s only backing and laying.

  415. gerry747 says:

    hrr – first one mine, second Matt’s but I was doing similar before he brought it out.

  416. gerry747 says:

    hrr – Actually the 2.5 method is more like Steve Davidson’s, only different odds.

  417. hrr says:


    Need to go to a bookies to get the live odds for the Home and Away teams.

    The Home team needs to be =>2.50 to max what would be the max odds for the Home ?

    also the Odds difference between Home and Away team?

  418. hrr says:


    I don’t have Steve version this is all new to me

  419. gerry747 says:

    hrr – I only use Betfair, home team needs odds of 2.5 or slightly higher, say 2.52. 2.54. I never go above 2.6. The difference between away team is the maximum you can get. 3.0 or above would be good. The double odds are about 6.0 or a little higher.

    Steve D’s version is 3 bets the same, (Value Plus Soccer) only often much shorter odds. Now his win strike rate might be higher, but like my run of 10 games breaking even, I think you would find that would be a loss on Steve D’s odds.

    It’s just two singles and one double.

  420. hrr says:


    Thanks Mate 🙂

  421. TheBaker says:

    Except you don’t get odds of 2.5 on Betfair with Multiples. For example, 2 matches coming up with odds close to 2.5 are: FC Brno @2.52 vs Slavia Prague and Al-Nassr @2.52 vs Al Ahli. On the Multiples tab both are given odds of 2.3, although Al-Nassr has just changed to 2.4. This gives a double of 5.52. And commission has to be paid on winnings.

  422. 5aces says:

    Lets not get mixed up. There are 2 different systems we are talking about. Ones laying over 2.5 goals. The other backing 2 home teams 6/4 price in singles and doubles.

    Laying 2.5 is the bankbuilder. I found 4 games today. 3 has won ie less than 2.5 goals. Only one more game to go tonight in the serie a. If you can dust off the old betsender then it can be a nice earner sitting in background.

    I am reluctant on the 6/4 backing doubles as i dont know which games to pick.

  423. 5aces says:


    Any games between 1.6 and 1.9 are qualifiers to me. I find games at least 2 hours apart and bet in sequence using loss recovery. Revelation is similar to loss recovery but a bit safer.

  424. hrr says:


    Hi Gerry, just done the scanner now and if you look at the picture using the link below these are the 2 teams it’s picked from the odds criteria.

    You can scan anytime of the day, with just 1 click, but you can also scan just before the match starts to check the odds haven’t changed as if has a live feed.

    Does the work out look right from the image?

  425. gerry747 says:

    TheBaker – You go into “sportsbook” not exchange, do your two singles, then multiple appears as a double. Been doing it for years !….. You really have to look for your odds, 2.5 or a slightly above, then I take the best odds for the away team, as long as it’s above.

    Did you understand the adjustment of stakes to get a break even no loss bet?…..

  426. gerry747 says:

    hrr – Looks good to me, where did you get those odds?

  427. gerry747 says:

    5aces – Backing and laying I only do on Matt’s system FBB the other is straight back bets on the 2.5’s
    2 singles, 1 double.

  428. gerry747 says:

    hrr – no mate, your in exchange, you need sportsbook odds, exchange odds drop to multiples which are lower.

  429. 5aces says:

    Gerry you use half of Matts system as you miss rule 1 😉

  430. hrr says:

    gerry – do you have a link to the sportsbook odds page?

  431. gerry747 says:

    here’s an example

    CA Temperley v Olimpo 2.5

    Luton v Wycombe 2.6

    Double = 6.5 odds

    Just taken these off Betfair, you get the idea.

  432. gerry747 says:

    hrr – go into football, click on sportsbook top left on betfair

  433. gerry747 says:

    5aces – never use rule 1, backing and laying or just doing the half as Matt does.

  434. hrr says:

    gerry – found it thanks

  435. gerry747 says:

    Just let me clarify, I go for odds of between 2.5 to 2.6 for the home team. Now you can’t always get as high as 3.0 or above for the away team. that’s OK, as long as the away team is the lesser favourite. Sometimes you have to take 2.7 or 2.8. for the away team. The thing with this, you get the no loss bet, and even with a low win strike, lower than Steve D’s, the no loss makes more profit in the long run I’ve found.

  436. TheBaker says:

    Thanks for the explanation re: staking and using Sportsbook

  437. gerry747 says:

    TheBaker – Your welcome, hope we can all make some cash!

  438. gerry747 says:

    When you look at my 40 games run, I actually had 10 no loss bets, so really I had just over a 50% win strike rate on the other 30, 16 wins, 14 losses.

    Now take Mick’s games today (sorry mick) Liverpool v Man U, Hull City v Chelsea. One win, (only just 🙂 one loss. Now Mick correct me if I’m wrong as I don’t know the odds. I’m guessing even with your single win, you didn’t break even on the bet?

  439. hrr says:


    Thanks mate i will work on this now

  440. hrr says:

    gerry – just completed the scan for the whole page on the sportsbook and ended up with the following Teams, just click the link to view:

    Let me know if this is correct and i’ll zip it up and send you a copy over.

  441. gerry747 says:

    hrr – That’s good Kevin, take it there’s no limit on the away team odds? we need as big a gap as possible. Maybe it’s just happens to be very close odds today.

    It will certainly save having to go through them all mate, well done and thanks.

  442. hrr says:


    I was just showing you the Teams it’s picked with the criteria of the home odds, now i can add in further criteria i.e. what would you like the limit on the away odds to be, min/max?

  443. gerry747 says:

    hrr – No limit required on away team Kevin as to max, as long as the odds are above the home team of 2.5 to 2.6 max. Obviously the higher the away team odds the better, but we can only take what’s on offer. Thanks again.

  444. suzie says:

    gerry- No problem!

    Right ok, so don’t need to add anything further then as you’ll see the last column in the image titled ‘Difference’ is obviously the difference between the home and away odds. So you can simply use this column then as the indicator to which Team has the greater difference.

  445. gerry747 says:

    suzie – Yep great, save us a lot of time going through all the matches, thanks guys.

  446. lev1910 says:

    Hi gerry again. Been away for a few days and I see your talking about another system idea of going for 2 singles and a double on the multiples tab. This looks quite an interesting approach. Can you tell me gerry how you calculate the no loss bet? I take it you mean by that if you have one winner and one loser the winner covers the loss on the other single loser bet and the losing double then? Can you give me an example and how you calculate it gerry? And your using 5% compounding on your overall bank?

  447. gerry747 says:

    lev1910 –


    2.5 x £6 stake = £9 profit single bet

    2.5 x £6 stake = £9 profit single bet

    6.0 x £3 stake = £15 profit double bet

    So if only one single won, you’d get back £9 profit plus your stake £6 = £15 you would lose nothing.

    It’s up to you if you wanted to add 5% compounding, you would profit more, remember to adjust your stakes for the no loss bet.

  448. D3LBOY says:

    can someone break it down into dumb man’s terms are we looking for team x vs team x where odds are between a certain range then placing two singles and a double ?

  449. gerry747 says:

    D3LBOY – I know it’s hard to believe, but this is the Football Bank Builder thread. So if it’s that your on about, no, FBB is totally different.

    Go onto Kevins thread hrr, you’ll see what we’re on about mate.

  450. D3LBOY says:

    yea mate i am confused as to what thread i am on haha

    will look now 🙂

  451. kaylan says:

    Just received a sales pitch from hrr for Gerry’s bank builder £19.99.
    Is this for real.
    I am sure Gerry is not profiteering.
    He has always shared his knowledge freely in the past.
    What’s happening here.
    Surly this is a joke.

  452. hrr says:


    It’s no joke kaylan and i can understand where you coming from.

    The system as you can see is totally free but many where getting confused with how the system works. So i initially offered to built the criteria into a click in a box Software to help those that was struggling to understand it. For which we had permission to do so, we also contacted Matt Fisher to check it wasn’t infringing on their software. His publisher confirmed that it wasn’t. Therefore it has been created to save time for those that use this strategy. Again anyone can use this manually and we have explained how the system works and what to look for in the ad. For £19.99 this just covers the hosting, maintaining and any updates.

    Here’s the system explained for free:

    The Home Team to have odds no less than 2.50 and no greater than 2.60 and the Away Team to have higher odds than the Home Team – 2.60. The higher the odds on the Away Team – the greater the difference between the Home and Away Odds the better.

    For example if the odds for the Home Teams is 2.50, then we would stake 2 points on each single bet and 1 point on the double. Total of 5 points, if just 1 single wins the return would cover the stake. If all 3 bets win your return would be 16.25 points and the profit would be 11.25 points.

    We’re here to make life a little easier. 🙂

    Thanks for your comment Kaylan, hope this clarify’s your question.

  453. kaylan says:

    Thanks for the explanation. What you have done does seem like a very good idea. I am all for keeping things simple. Sorry I think I got the wrong end of the stick.
    Might well try it myself at some stage

  454. hrr says:


    No problem kaylan, we know where your coming from so we totally understand. Just want to make life i little less complicated.

  455. kenprior says:

    I have recently bought a copy of FBB. Without disclosing the rules on here to those that have not subscribed, can you give me a little bit more info on how you use the selections on your bot ?
    Do you select various matches where Over 2.5 OR Under 2.5 are in the required range ?
    Do you use Fibonacci staking on your bot ?
    Are there not occasions where your stake on the lay side is the same as your stake on the back side due to different cycles in your staking ?
    I am presuming you are still placing twice as much on the lay side as the back side eg Lay U2.5 for £10 and Back U 2.5 for £5 ?

    Ken Prior

  456. D3LBOY says:

    @HRR just want to check on the ”gerry app” sorry not sure what to call it lol as there no bets today can i still back those selections that are happening in a few days time or only back games being played on that day ?

  457. gerry747 says:

    kenprior – Just select games as it states in Matt’s rules. I don’t use rule 1, it’s up to you if you want to.

    I put the games in manually on the bot, sometimes have to trigger manually. You need games spread so they don’t overlap. Backing and laying just follow the rule for the lay, then whatever odds back it. I use loss recovery on a setting of 1 on Betsender bot. You can use Fibonacci if you want.

    Can’t remember if the stakes ever match on the lay or back, but that’s not important. Yes back stake half of lay. I would do it in simulation or penny stakes at first till you get confident with it, good luck.

  458. gerry747 says:

    D3LBOY – Kevin might not be available, he was working late last night, maybe I can help. Yes you can back games for in a few days ahead. Providing your bet slips on Betfair confirm it, also check in on your existing bets page, if they are there, your OK! 🙂

  459. gerry747 says:

    I’m going round in circles here, don’t know half the time if I’m answering about, FBB, GFBB, or backing and laying FBB.
    Matt is proofing results for GFBB at the same time selling FBB.

    Be good when Michelle can set up a page for each!…

  460. D3LBOY says:

    cheers gerry

  461. lev1910 says:

    @gerry 747
    Excellent gerry Thanks alot. Your the man!

  462. brokebookie says:

    Opps! Wrong thread… i bet i wont be first:(

    Going great guns with the Footie Bankbuilder/little acorns and Revelation. Started Dec with £1,000 bank & now at £1776. Also, run 2 separate banks of £500 for each & only had a losing run of just 6 with Footie Bankbuilder which it turned around pretty quickly.This is awesome for the investor, beats shares! Far less drawdowns than using Fib staking so use Revelation – full stop!

  463. Pete Williams says:

    Thanks for getting this thread back on track brokebookie, all these diverted acronyms are doing my head in! Just a few questions;

    What size stakes are you using with FBB and on your run of 6 losers what size stake did you use on the last bet in the sequence?

    How many bets did it take to turn the loss around?

    Taking Little Acorns out, how much has your £500 bank grown since December for FBB?


  464. gerry747 says:

    From April 10th 2014 to Feb 6th 2015 this thread was dead. So perhaps a few little diverted acronyms give it a new lease of life!……

    Bet Matt Fisher is not complaining, looking at the number of members who say they have bought the system since it was revived!…..

  465. markyb86 says:

    Hi guys have only recently joined this forum. Are people on here talking about backing selections with FBB? Is FBB not purely a system for laying?

  466. gerry747 says:

    Admin – Hi Michelle, hope I’ve caught you on a good day!… Now is there any chance we can have a thread for general discussion? Any thread at all, one that is not being posted on etc.

    I really don’t think many members are going to pay to be able just to exchange ideas, just my opinion, I may be wrong.

    The IGI thread proved itself, we all benefited from it, would you be kind enough to give this some consideration?

    Thank you!…

  467. gerry747 says:

    markyb86 – Hi, yes your correct, Matt’s FBB is purely a laying system!

  468. MMR admin says:


    I seem to recall several members complaining (including yourself I think) that the Is Gambling Immoral discussion thread was becoming too long and messy and taking too long to load.

    You all asked for a proper forum where people could share ideas in a more structured, clearer to read way.

    So that’s what we have done. Yes, there is a charge for it but we have to cover our costs – as I’m sure you’ll understand.

    Plus having the forum behind a paywall means that it cannot be hacked in to by spammers that flood forums with all sorts of junk and links to god knows what. I’m sure members will appreciate that.

    We’ve got some discussions going already which is good to see – not just about betting but trading and home business ideas, which this site also covers.


  469. gerry747 says:

    Michelle – I see, fair enough, thanks for your reply.

  470. 5aces says:


    only problem with revelation staking is manual input. If only it could be programmed into a bot. It could be the next thing for Steve D as he seems to have many bots going at the moment.

    The next best thing to compare is what Gerry uses loss recovery but set to recover losses over 2 or 3 bets ;).

    I just got another winning bet today but betfair has shut down so cannot bet the other games.

  471. 5aces says:

    Betfair back up again, thank goodness..

  472. brokebookie says:

    Yes i agree 5aces, but i dont mind using it manually with the profits made so far with Rev/Little acorns/Footiebankbuilder as i only do it on one sometimes two per day.

    @pete williams, from a £1,000 bank and think i got up to around £57 in stakes with 6 losses and bank was in profit after 3 winning bets, not bad after a 6 losing run. Before that the highest losing sequence was just 4! I will have to double check them figures as just in a bit of a rush now.

    I also run 2 £500 banks for both LA & FBB and both are in profit with the little acorns bank up £190 with a 53% winning lay strike rate which i know cant last. I will see how much little acorns made taking out footie bankbuilder selections and get back toy ou

  473. PaulWS says:

    Just started this and had 9 losing bets in a row. Glad I a not using Fib. I must be doing something wrong.

  474. PaulWS says:

    10th bet just won…nearly fell of my chair lol

  475. 5aces says:

    Paul WS

    Really? What were your games? I miss out rule one and am on a current strike rate of 67%. I had 4 bets yesterday only 1 lost but with recovery, quids in. Today got 3 games first one has won at 0-0 (laying over 2.5 at 1.85) It was in the Polish Liga 1. The current game is Brazil V Chile at the moment is 0-0 at 39 mins so fingers crossed. The third game which is at 17.00 is between Romaina V Faroe Island which I am doubtful but its witin my price range currently at 1.67 to lay so will lay it.

  476. 5aces says:

    3 out of 3 for fbb reloaded.

  477. PaulWS says:

    Since 25 March following the 2 rules exactly and placing the lay bet using Betsender 5 mins before kick off

    Losers (Home Team)
    Volta Redonda
    Dempo SC
    Shamrock Rovers
    Mohun Bagan
    Anzhi Makharachi

    Leyton Orient

  478. gerry747 says:

    I still can’t see the point of rule 1, must be missing something?……

  479. 5aces says:


    Sorry to sound patronising, you’re not actually laying the teams are you?

    Like Gerry says Rule 1 really limits amount of games per day and on quiet days you may be lucky to find 1 or 2. Thats why I gave up when I first purchased FBB a few years ago. Soon as Gerry said miss out rule one I came back on to give it another shot.

    I prefer to find as many as I can spaced out throughout the day and night if any. Some days I may log on morning and late afternoon to find anymore games as liquidity can be a problem with a few games. If you seen my post a few comments back I had 3 winning lays yesterday. Brazil and romania were heavily odds on to win and the draw price was around 7 plus for both games yet they managed only to get only 1 goal. had I followed rule 1 those would not have qualified.

    Since 18 March I have had 39 games with revised rule losing 11 games so winning strike rate of 71% which is scarily high and cannot possibly be maintained. I do expect it to drop over time but I am having a great run at the moment.

  480. 5aces says:


    I just had a look at the Leyton Orient Game which they WON 3-1 so it would have been a LOSING LAY? FBB is suppose to be laying 2.5 goals.

  481. PaulWS says:


    No I was not laying those specific teams just the goals under/ over as per the system and laying at the odds it says to lay. In the Leyton Orient Game I layed the under at 1.99 and had my one and only winner. 🙂

    I will try a few games without rule 1 and see if I can ruin that system also lol

  482. johnlynch says:

    @ 5aces

    Glad you doing well this.Regarding the Leyton Orient game maybe Paul layed the u2.5 market..thought you could do both,or am i wrong?

  483. 5aces says:

    Just laying over 2.5 only. So you need less than 3 goals. Thats the only market i stuck with. Once this has proven itself will i start to add gerrys backing but thats for another time. I would advise to just stick with one market only for now.

  484. PaulWS says:

    I am sticking with one market and laying under or over depending on the price, just as the system specifies.

  485. bobo1977 says:

    I managed to get hold of the Revelation and have used it for one month now with FBB and have made 19 units x my stake so going very well and i always use Rule 1. I think those using rule 1 and not winning seem to be using it on obscure leagues and on some teams i’ve never heard of! My FBB version says use it on major leagues which i’ve done so bigger liquidity and more efficient markets reflective of odds.

    @Paulws, even with 9 losers you had the Revelation would overcome that so the Revelation is much better than Fib. Although i also run Fib using rule 1 and its not let me down since starting in November but as i say i only use it on world top leagues and use Rule 1 so far less selections.

  486. 5aces says:

    Yes you guys are correct. I went back to manual and does say lay whichever is within the price range. Obviously I just followed the example. Its working for me at the moment so will continue doing as I am.

    Good luck to all.

  487. voodoo1 says:


    Are you still using this system successfully?

    Would really appreciate an update from ya,THANKS!

  488. bobo1977 says:

    Yes PEM had been very good to me:) averaging around 10 points per month using it on 2 races a day as per rules. Tried it on more races per day last year when i had time and got close to 70 points profit over 2 months, but you will getting bigger profit/loss swings this way.
    PEM, Betalchemist, Little Acorns are my 3 main horsie methods and Football bankbuilder my football one, although gerrys one sounds good to so will give that a bash i think. Its just getting the time to do them all.

  489. porcupine38 says:

    @gerry747, only just stumbled across this thread. Am I right in thinking you are both laying AND backing the over or under 2.5 market in the same game, and profiting on both?

    Not sure how this would be possible but fair play if you are? Would it also work red or black on roulette then by that assumption?

  490. gerry747 says:

    porcupine38 – It’s simple really, if you just look at the reviewers figures above, even though he didn’t follow the best advised staking method. He had a 42% strike rate laying, which means you must have a 58% winners on backing.

    You simply run two instances of a bot backing on one and laying on the other. Using a set loss recovery on both, one bet wins every time. You stop each in turn when they are in profit.

    You say not sure how this would be possible, well I think 24K profit over 4 years shows it’s very possible!….

    You can’t make a comparison on Roulette, there is no way to implement the same recovery system. And we all know the martingale is the road to the poor house.

  491. brokebookie says:

    Thats Correct Gerry747, i have made great profit with Footie Bankbuilder even at the 40% win rate using the Fib, although as you know i now use Revelation which bats all other staking plans out of the stadium!. It makes me laugh when people compare these staking plans to roulette. Roulette is totally random, the house has the edge. With Footie Bankbuilder we are applying filters that reduce our risk so its not random! Roulette is a game of chance pure & simple and you cant apply any filters that will increase your chances. The house has complete control!

  492. wanderer says:

    Hi Gerry,i’ve been trying this.I keep making silly mistakes plus Betsender has done some strange things,not put bets on or put 2 bets at once.What do you mean by stopping each in turn when in profit,i’m not doing something else wrong am i?

  493. durango says:

    hi brokebookie,
    where can i get a copy of the revelation staking plan ?
    thanks durango

  494. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – Yep Betsender not the best for this, I too have had problems. I’ve often had to manually press bet now to get it to work. Stopping each in turn when in profit is when you’ve finished. You wait till both are in profit and stop them in turn which ever comes first.
    If your bot is not running right, send a ticket to Mike at Betsender, he’s a good bloke, should sort it for you.

  495. wanderer says:

    Sorry for being thick Gerry,but i don’t understand the stop them in turn bit.Also are you stopping the staking recovery plan and starting again or just letting it keep going?
    I was going really well,doing 3-5 games a day,pushing 100 points in a week and then it started doing more than 1 game on the back cycle at the same time and i could never recover my losses.I changed the bet to 5 mins before kickoff,as it kept missing early kick-offs,took me a while to do the bet now option.Also,deleting games when i need a back rather than lay etc.I think most of the problem is me,but if any more probs i will contact him.One thing i’ve noticed is Betsender should pick an an over or under,but occasionally picks the wrong way despite the odds on Betfair which means doing the 2nd fav outcome even though its fav.
    I’m still doing it and the horses,bit busy to get involved in this new method,but looks very interesting ang good work on the software by hrr.

  496. gerry747 says:

    wanderer – You make me smile, don’t worry we’ll get there somehow. Right, you’ve picked your selections, you place them manually on two instances of your bot. One for backing, one for laying. One bet always wins, so at that time your other instance of bot is in a losing position. If you want to quit for the day, stop the bot that’s just won. Then just let the other bot run till it ends on a winning bet. Then the two together have made a profit and that’s your winnings for the day. Always give yourself enough bets left over to get the losing bot chance to finish on a winning bet.

    It sounds to me your bot is not running right, try uninstalling it and re-install it on the website, also check it for updates. I find the best way to do all of this is manually. If your trying to set it up as a set and forget, it won’t work well. I monitor it as it goes along and intervene if needed, if I’ve the time.

    It does work mate, just look at “brokebookie” only he’s laying on both, but it’s the same principal!…

  497. porcupine38 says:

    @brokebookie where did I compare anything to roulette? I simply asked Gerry the question (not you) IF – “IF” it would work on roulette as its a similar principle (2 outcomes) – Ok there is green 0 but that is essence the same as the bookie overround in the traditional betting.

    I’m still unsure how you can make a back and a lay work long term – if it was that simple bookies would be the skint ones not the majority of punters

  498. gerry747 says:

    porcupine38 – As the odds stand you couldn’t make a profit. It’s separating the back and lay onto two different bots and using a loss recovery that makes it work. The loss recovery works by getting your loss back and also adding a profit.

    This works on both bots, as long as we don’t have too long a run on just one bot. If we do, we stop and take the loss, but we have far more winning days than losers that make the loss up and more.

    If you look at the reviewers results, you’ll see he never went more than 5 losers on the bounce, and that was only once. That would have been a piece of cake to make a profit using loss recovery. With small stakes, remember you can go lower than the Betfair minimum using a bot.

    I can assure you it works, I’ve been at this game a long time mate, and it’s very profitable.
    Hope this helps and you’ve grasped it now!… 🙂

  499. gerry747 says:

    porcupine38 – Just to add, it’s Betfair not the bookies, your taking cash off other punters. You will never get your account closed, and Betfair will never go bust!…

  500. porcupine38 says:

    Hi Gerry, thanks for taking the time to reply, yes I’m familiar with betfair and even though you’re not dealing directly with a bookie – you still wouldn’t (under normal circumstances) be able to back both outcomes for a profit (arbing).

    Interesting concept, do you use the same rules for your back and lay bots (resetting after the same amount of cycles, recovering the loss over the same amount of games, choosing whether to recover the full loss etc). The sample size used in the example is too small to get an idea for likely loosing runs – even after 1,000 games you still wouldn’t have the full picture – but appreciate your point.

  501. gerry747 says:

    porcupine38 – Not sure if I’ve misunderstood you, I’m not arbing. I’m backing and laying the same game on Betfair, that’s no problem when using a bot. It’s the recovery on both bots that get you your profits. Betfair have no problem with this, they are quite happy just getting their commission.

    I have no cycles, I find a few games, back and lay them, with the intention that both bots finish on a winning bet, though not at the same time. The recovery on each is set to 1, that means when it hits a winning bet, I get back any losses plus a set target profit for each bet. If one bot didn’t finish on a winner, I hold that one over to continue the next time or day.

    I don’t know about the sample size as you put it, over 4 years I must have placed well over a thousand bets if not more. Have you ever used a betting bot?
    Your making this sound harder than it actually is, it is really quite simple once you’ve got the hang of it.

  502. gerry747 says:

    I think after doing this for over four years, having placed well into the thousands of bets, and making over 24K profit.

    I think it would be fair to say “we have the full picture” IMO.

  503. 5aces says:

    Porcupine. You are looking at this wrong. Each bet is a seperate entity. Say you were backing over 2.5. The same game i laid over.2.5. That game you won. So u stopat your 1 point profit. I continue to lay another game. I lost say then laid a 3rd game with recovery. I win that game. So i am also in profit and stop. You win and i win. Now say i am both backer and layer. Now i win twice. Thats the simplest way to look at it.

  504. porcupine38 says:

    @ 5aces, yes I understand the principle behind it – just not the staking.

    @Gerry747, No I realise you’re not arbing, I was using that as an example of where you CAN have a “no lose” by backing and laying the same selection (or backing the under and backing the over).
    I regularly use a Bot for my simpler betting systems – or testing purposes so understand how they work – just not the staking you are using. It does sound simple, but I’m still a bit sceptical of the staking used. You mention a few times the sample the reviewer used could be turned profitable (on both back and lay) – do you have the example as above but with the back and lay stakes you profit from?

  505. porcupine38 says:

    @rinti, thanks – but those games are not the ones in the above sample

  506. gerry747 says:

    porcupine38 – Ok, the staking, the bot actually works out your staking for you. Just to give you an example. We have two bots, let’s say we want to make £1 profit on every bet. Right we set our target profit to £1 on both bots. The bot knows what to stake according to the odds. This works in same principal for both bots. Obviously one bot wins, so it’s made a £1 profit. So it continues as normal to the next bet. The other bot lost, so by the odds and the loss, it knows what to stake to get our loss from the previous bet and also give us a £2 profit (£1 target each for 2 bets) meaning we make £1 per bet on each bot.

    And this is how it continues, providing we don’t get too long a run on one bot losing, the recovery will do it’s job without the stakes getting too high. Remember we can bet as low as one pence using a betting bot, so we can go a few bets without it getting too high.

    I really can’t think of another way to explain this. It does work, “brokebookie” is making a good profit and so are others.

    As for the reviewers results, he never went more than 5 losers on the bounce, so don’t you see, with small target profit, we could have made a good profit because the laying side never went more than 5 bets.

    Just look at it this way, if your laying and you only hit a 42% win rate, then backing you must hit a 58% win rate. And in his laying he never went more than 5 bets till he won again. His percentage of 42% is a little low on average, so if it was a little higher, it makes it even better for backing and laying.

  507. gerry747 says:

    porcupine38 – I can see by the type of questions you ask on your last post, we are just not on the same wavelength, as I guess this all new to you!…

  508. porcupine38 says:

    @gerry747, ok so your bot does all the staking calculations using built in loss recovery rather than you devising the “staking plan” yourself?

    I’ve been betting and experimenting with odds related systems for nearly 25 years so its not new to me lol, what is new to me was getting my head around the staking you were using to create an positive outcome on BOTH outcomes on the same market. It is now clear you are using the simple incremental increase staking that I also use for horse racing.

    Aim is £1 profit per bet, if that bet looses the next bet wants to make £1 + the £1 from the previous bet + the lost stake from the previous bet. I was doing rather well with my system, got from £80 to £720 in 10 days and then lost the lot with a run of 18 consecutive losses. I suppose the risk of that happening in your type of bet is lower as there are 2 outcomes as opposed to 5,6,7 or more in a horse race.

  509. gerry747 says:

    porcupine – I say it’s simple, but it’s only simple when you know how. It’s like me if you put me in front of your football bet data software, I wouldn’t have a clue. It’s the same as me putting you in front of a flight deck and saying would you prepare for take off!….
    We’d both be lost!…. (unless your a pilot of course! 🙂

    I gave you the easiest explanation I could, having said that, I do it a bit differently to the above myself. But if I tried to explain, we’d be here all night!…..

  510. gerry747 says:

    porcupine38 – Yes mate you’ve got it, also if I went on a long losing run I stop. Like I said before, I have far more winning days than losers!… good luck my friend!…

  511. porcupine38 says:

    @gerry747, thanks for clarifying – perhaps its best you don’t go further with the explanation of what you actually do then lol.

    Nope not a pilot, fear of flying would not make me an ideal candidate for that job :-), the football data software isn’t mine either – just something that has saved me hours of research over the past 15 months or so and also made me a few quid along the way.

  512. rinti says:

    porcupine38 using the rules of FBB it’s impossible like 1000% impossible to get a losing run of 18 what you got on the horses. As you can see the review the longest losing run is 5, i hardly get more than that.

  513. brokebookie says:

    I agree Rinti, you would have to be the most unluckiest person in the world to get a losing run of of 18 in a market where there can only be 2 possible outcomes. I think even if you stick a pin you would never get a losing run of 18 in the O/U 2,5 markets! Event then i would wager that the Revelation would soon pull that loss around over time as the correction in strike rate forms.

  514. 5aces says:

    What I am doing is transfering what we learned from the Greyhounds. I am doing more instances with small target profits rather than less with higher profit target. IE rather than going for £1 say I have split up the target into 25p with 4 instances.

    There is less action obviously than greyhounds but I can control this more and have plenty time to do so if something went wrong.

    One main advantage is you can split up the losses between all your instances easier if say one of your sequences is having a bad run. (Gerry taught us this in the greyhounds).


    I have a favour to ask of you. Unfortunately with footie we have to manually load each game in unlike horse and greyhounds where betsender can list it all up in seconds.

    Is it possible to write a program that can scan betfair markets and list out the games and times of the ones that have specific markets? At the moment I am clicking through every game looking for odds and evens and also BTTS markets. Not all in-play coupon games have this and is very time consuming. If it is possible and you write one and put it on your website I will be one of the first to purchase.

  515. johnlynch says:


    Are you still doing your lay both unders and overs in the same match thingy? i started trying it last week,been going o k.

  516. brokebookie says:

    Yes John going good with Matts Footie Bankbuilder & laying in both. Although it does take time to build at the start as i went 4 games on a loser with the unders sequence but now both sequences are now in profit & hard to see it failing at this point. Great feeling when you know you get a winner in every match for one sequence or tother!

  517. thebetengine says:

    @5aces – what you want already exists. I would post up a link but the post will just go into moderation (and I am still waiting for the post that I put up on the 26th March on the Gerry’s Football Banker thread to be displayed!)

    I will start up a thread over on TheBetEngine forum (there is a subsection for MMR) if you want to mosey over and take a peek. The section will be called Soccer Odds (Betfair Odds Filtering).

  518. thebetengine says:

    Link to the forum posting relating to my earlier post (just in case this is posted without moderation!):

  519. gerry747 says:

    thebetengine – I’m following your selections on the forum every day, interesting!….

  520. MMR admin says:


    Sorry about your post on 26th – it’s because it had more than one link in it and I missed it when moderating (so many comments posted across the site it’s easy to miss something).

    I have approved the comment now so it will show.


  521. thebetengine says:

    Michelle – many thanks.

  522. graham says:

    johnlynch, after several days of waiting, have just received the REV. plan. First glance looks good, but I am going to have to study it a bit. Now I can lay into FBB.

  523. johnlynch says:


    Glad you got it…the way it recovers from losing runs is frigging amazing.

  524. gerry747 says:

    graham – Did you have to buy the Revelation? just wondered with you already having the FBB. Thought he might have just given you it, as I believe it’s free when you purchase FBB now.

  525. 5aces says:

    thanks for that thebetengine. Is that part of the subscription software or a standalone software?

  526. 5aces says:

    Gerry it is good but have to manually enter each bet after each result. So if you are busy and away from computer then it would be quite annoying. IF they can automate it. I am sure hrr may be able to but copyright and all that. Maybe something to put forward to Steve D.

  527. thebetengine says:

    @5aces – the intention was to allow it to be sold as a standalone product.

    I checked with Betfair yesterday. Unfortunately they will not allow it to be sold on its own as it does not allow betting (Betfair have a real issue with people using Betfair data but not actually placing bets), so it looks like it will have to be an add on to TheFootballEngine.

    As regards the Revelation plan, it is based on a pre-existing staking plan. TheFootballEngine already automates that plan. TFE can also fully automate FBB.

    Anyone that is interested in TheFootballEngine can sign up for notification via – I will be looking for further beta testers very soon.

  528. rinti says:

    Thebetengine do you have problem sharing which is the pre-existing plan ?

    I signed up to the list.

  529. graham says:

    Hi Gerry, a member pointed out on here there were two ways to purchase. Your friend SD who was charging £70ish, no refund or Rev. Or Andy/Matt, around £100 with refund, and after 30 days the Rev. John lynch reminded me about it. Then I got cross sells and nothing. Sent one more email, then 3 days later received it. The manual is well written and explains it. But, as never fails with me, the software web address does not work, so will have to contact them.

    GFB is going well, just using the top two, on level stakes. I am spreading myself to thinly at the moment, need to concentrate more
    I just hope Kevin or you comes up with an idea for Flyfishing, only two outcomes, did you hook one or not!

  530. graham says:

    SR, I just hope you dont

  531. 5aces says:

    thebetengine. I have signed up and will you offer some kind of trial to see if the bot does what we want it to do. I am using betsender at the moment and it does what it does less revelation staking. So the revelation staking is not some copyright? You can put it into your bot? Happy days then.

  532. hrr says:

    5aces You can not copyright a calculator mate

    if you can i don’t think Iphone would let samsung have a calculator on There phone’s like Thebetengine said his has this already on his bot 🙂

  533. thebetengine says:

    @rinti – I don’t think it is fair to say what plan it is based on – sorry.

  534. rinti says:

    Yep of course, I though it’s something that is widely available when you told pre-existing.

  535. gerry747 says:

    graham – Yep I know SD did it cheaper, our guy got it off him. So I take it you paid the £100 and now he just sent you revelation with no further cost?

    Sorry mate, my brain not in gear yet!…. 🙂

  536. gerry747 says:

    5aces – Kevin’s the expert on automating things, maybe we can come up with something mate!….

  537. gerry747 says:

    thebetengine – Let me get this clear, (not at my best today) the Revelation plan is included in the football engine software, also it is automated? Also you say it is from another existing plan?

    Also TFE can automate FBB, does that include backing and laying, as it requires two instances of a bot?

    Apologies if my questions seem a bit thick!……

  538. hrr says:

    gerry747 – 5aces Bring it on i have me 6 pack of Red Bull … 🙂

  539. gerry747 says:

    hrr – I wish I’d had red bull last night, instead of celebrating my winning double!…..:-(

  540. rinti says:

    I would like to hear the answer to Gerry first question too, is the plan in the Football Engine 1:1 with Revelation and also automated.

  541. gerry747 says:

    rinti – failing that mate, all we have to do is go through all the pre-existing plans!…. simples, 🙂

    Kevin might know! especially now he’s stocked up on red bull!..

  542. thebetengine says:


    Revelation is a variant of an existing staking plan. TFE is capable of running that plan and the revelation variant.

    No need to run two instances of the bot – the bot will handle all the relevant bets (both back and lay).

    In addition, you can run up to 6 parallel “streams” – so, you can bet on 6 games in parallel. In effect, you would be running 6 copies of the strategy at the same time.

    You can also run multiple strategies at the same time, so the bot could be set up to run FBB, plus a LTD, plus Gerry’s FBB, etc (and all of these support the 6 parallel streams).

    Here’s a picture:

    At the top you can see the various strategies. On the right hand side, you can see the 6 parallel streams.

  543. gerry747 says:

    thebetengine – That’s bloody good mate, will have to look further into this!…..

  544. graham says:

    Gerry, yes paid £97 to Matt Fisher at Cannonbury, so yes just received it at no more cost.

  545. gerry747 says:

    thebetengine – You’ve obviously been working on this for some time. Just wondered where you got the idea to implement all the strategies and the type of betting strategies?
    It’s certainly a piece of work, just curious!…….

  546. rinti says:

    Gerry have you gotten an answer from Matt or Andrew if they will be selling the plan separately for 37 pounds ?

  547. gerry747 says:

    rinti – No mate, having said that, I’ve been having problems with my emails, a lot been returned.
    Perhaps you could try mate?

  548. thebetengine says:

    Gerry – have been working on the bot on and off for the best part of 18 months. Originally it was going to be launched with a commercial partner and strategies were developed for the launch. That didn’t happen for various reasons.

    The picture is a set of strategies (plus FBB) which is under development for another potential commercial partner.

    I did ask for people to tell me the sort of strategies that they would like to see automated via TheBetEngine forum, but I don’t think anyone had an interest at that point.

    Happy for people to suggest strategies via the forum if they want to.

  549. hrr says:

    Gerry – I do hope thebetengine is paying you well for the system 🙂

  550. gerry747 says:

    hrr – stop it mate!…..

  551. rinti says:

    Gerry, I have a suggestion for you mate, you helped me much. From your posts I can see Betsender have some problems sometimes, what I use works like a Swiss watch, no bugs.

    I am not connected to the bot I use and make no money from promoting or selling it, just happy customer.

    I managed to get a month free trial for you! Normally its 5-7 days, which will not be enough, but I told the owner you are a cool guy. For this bot – It’s fully approved by Betfair of course.

    I will send you the backing and laying strategy (it’s a file you just need to import and start), you can run unlimited streams (just tell me how much you want)

    You can also run unlimited other strategies with unlimited streams betting on every kind of sport you imagine (and betfair offers :D) no restrictions(you need only 1 instance for that). The strategies are not pre-included, but the bot is very powerful so can basically automate everything, I know how to use it and will do it for you, no problem. If you do not wish to tell me the conditions, you can contact the support they keep confidentiality and will do the job. I know you have strategies for other sports than football, or at least had 😀

    I would like to hear what you think.

    As for revelation the owner told me it’s been already implemented in the bot for a personal request, so it is possible and he will look for that in the future, but for now it’s not available for everyone.

  552. gerry747 says:

    I’ve used betting bots and many types of software for years. There are bots you pay a one off fee, about £100, there are bots you pay monthly, which costs you more over time.

    Now let me say this, Kevin’s software, now with all the addon’s (free) and his constant support and help, IS the best value software anywhere. There is nothing to touch it for £20 a year!…..

    And what’s more, I know it’s early days, but guys are making money!…….

    Kevin, keep it up mate, and thanks for your help!….

  553. hrr says:

    rinti can you send me the CSV format of the Bf Bot

    i can implant them in to my systems 🙂

  554. gerry747 says:

    rinti – cheers mate, will get back to you via Kevin, bear with me, bit busy right now, work related problem!…

  555. rinti says:

    No problem Gerry, I am travelling today and having a flight tomorrow, so also better for me.

    For Kevin, please give gerry my @gmail email not the other one, for which you send me the license key.

    Kevin, drop me an email(gmail), because I am not sure if I understood you correctly.

  556. porcupine38 says:

    @ Gerry747, just been playing around with the various staking plans and the example data on this thread (at the top). Out of interest what was your ROI (Yield) for the backing and laying banks when using the selections with your staking?

    Also, I notice the reviewer states these were all OVER lays, but there are 6 selections I believe he made UNDER lay (as the score was less than 2 goals but he showed a loss for that match

  557. gerry747 says:

    porcupine – Good question, wish I knew the exact answer!…:-)

    I was laying at £10 backing at £5 reason being I found the backing side stakes increased quicker, so adjusted to even it out a bit. The stakes was not set in stone, sometimes higher, some lower.

    I don’t take my gambling that serious, I place my bets at whatever I’m doing, bit of a mixture at times. I just look at the profit at the end of the month and withdraw it, leaving the same betting bank balance for the next month.

    Sorry not to be more specific, but I don’t really go into yields, ROI or anything like that. If I see it makes cash and it works, that’s all that interests me. All I can tell you, is when I total up every months profits on this alone, over the period of just over 4 years, I’ve made just under 24K, that’s all that interests me.

    Without checking and going through all his results again, I don’t know. But I do know he never went more than 5 losing bets on the bounce. Sometimes it happens your laying on the under, sometimes it’s the over, depends which is the lowest odds for laying. Which of course means if it’s odds on, you lose less than your stake. Pity it doesn’t work like that on the backing side.

  558. gerry747 says:

    porcupine38 – It might be clearer if I told you, I use one betting bank on Betfair for all my types of betting.
    Maybe football, horses, dogs, you name it, it all operates off one betting bank!…

  559. porcupine38 says:

    @Gerry, thanks mate. Yes I can see that the backing “could” get quite out of hand, especially if you’re finding odds of 1.6 or thereabouts. 6 or 7 losses in a row, recovering lost stakes will soon add up and using fib I think will eventually end in a negative backing bank.

    I may well just stick to the laying

  560. gerry747 says:

    porcupine38 – good choice mate, stakes are more comfortable!….:-)

  561. rinti says:

    Most probably soon I will have the revelation staking even automated. I will report once I have it how it’s doing compared to what I have seen before.

  562. commander123 says:

    @ rinti
    may i ask if the bot u use is reliable for doing the back and lay of over under 2.5?

  563. larey12 says:

    Does anyone know if the BF Bot Manager or Betsender has incorporated the revelation staking system into their bots or can it not be done.

    Just purchased Football bank builder but also have a system myself which places over 50 bets a day on the place (backing horses) market at average odds of 2.2 and occasionally get the long losing runs which the revelation staking system would seem to be able to deal with.

    From what I understand the staking system has been around before and isn’t owned by anyone so their shouldn’t be any copyright issues. I’ve got Betsender but rarely get a reply from Mike so have no idea if he’s already got the file for this already.

  564. rinti says:

    commander123 says:
    April 11, 2015 at 1:05 pm
    @ rinti
    may i ask if the bot u use is reliable for doing the back and lay of over under 2.5?

    Sorry for the late response. Yep, 1000% reliable. I have posted screenshots here how it can be done with it, you can get a 7 days free trial, so nothing to lose, I will send you the files if you want.

    larey12 says:
    April 14, 2015 at 12:16 am
    Does anyone know if the BF Bot Manager or Betsender has incorporated the revelation staking system into their bots or can it not be done.

    I can be done and Bf Bot Manager already has it.

    Please note it is not yet available to everyone, in June most probably it will be, I am a beta tester.

  565. larey12 says:

    Thanks for the reply rinti – and thank you to everyone on here for all this invaluable information.

  566. larey12 says:

    Just noticed upon receiving my order of Football Bank Builder that the revelation plan is free only for a limited period. After the trial period is up are they going to charge a recurring fee for the calculator or just the one of payment of £37?

  567. larey12 says:

    @rinti – do you know if your able to back selections on the revelation plan on BF Bot Manager. With the calculator it only works out selections for lay bets.

  568. larey12 says:

    Forget that rinti – just been looking at this revelation plan and can’t even work out how to use it for laying selections even with the calculator. Thought it would just be putting in the stake and it worked it all out for you but you have to put in max loss and min loss in relation to your last stake. Not much in the way of examples either.

  569. larey12 says:

    Ahhh! just had that light bulb go of in my head. I can see the genius of the plan now.

  570. rinti says:

    The plan is actually quite simply but it looks quite complicated 😀 But when you got the hang of it, it’s easy.

  571. rinti says:

    Larey, you can back selections and the bot works out everything out for you, so you cannot mistake the stakes 😀

  572. larey12 says:

    That’s good news! I’ve contacted some vendors of other bots and they haven’t even heard of the revelation staking plan!!!

  573. brokebookie says:

    Yes it took me a couple of reads for Revelation to sink in! Working very well by laying in both outcomes of Over/Under market and running a 2 separate Revelation sequence for each!

  574. larey12 says:

    @rinti and brokebookie – can I just ask what sort of percentage of your bank are you using for your stakes with the revelation plan – I’m thinking of using 1% or do you think it should be lower?

    Also, I’m going to be using a bot for each bet (hopefully 3 a day). I shall be using a separate instance for each of the 3 bets so I don’t have to wait for the result. But, when should I get it to place the bet – would 5 mins before the kickoff be ok or is 1 minute before the start more accurate in it’s odds?

  575. petermans23 says:


    I used to be quite good at math in school. But for some unknown reason I can´t get to understand the Revelation staking plan.

    I must have read it now slowly 20 times and it is still not sinking in. So since so many have said that it is so great I am starting to panic.

    What am I missing here?

    I am thinking of just settling down with the original Fibonacci staking plan A from the ebook.

    But at the same time perhaps I am doing the biggest mistake of my betting/staking life?!

    And also brokebookie, don`t you get up to quite high stakes when you lay the higher odds of the two markets at over/under 2.5 goals? I mean laying to lets say odds of 2.40 is quite different after a couple of bets than laying to 1.70, don´t you think? Or what is your experience there?

    And last, do you have two different exchanges account for this, like betfair for one laying bank and betdaq for the other laying bank? Or do you perhaps use a normal sportsbook for the other betting bank?

    Thanks for your help.

  576. brokebookie says:

    First off i would email the developer of the Revelation who has helped me quite a lot & he gives examples that i think are better than the ones in the rules manual. Its worth getting to grips with that’s for sure!

    I lay both O/U outcomes in 2.5 goals market where you would have say overs @ 1.96 and unders at 2.02, so i wouldn’t lay as high as 2.40. Don’t forget the market is telling us this could go either way (almost 50/50) so you don’t get long losing runs as there is only 2 results outcomes:) For example; next Wednesday’s Champ League game R Madrid V Ath Madrid is priced around the above criteria. Obviously there would be games today but i just plucked this one out of the air as its on the home page of betfair. I then Lay the Unders bet on Smarkets & Overs bet with Betfair to keep matters clear, so its slow at start but then both sequences will run into profit & stay there when using the Revelation – Magic!

  577. petermans23 says:

    Thanks brokebookie,

    Good idea to email the developer of the Revelation plan.

    Good luck with both your lays!

    I am also going to try and find the magic.

  578. jassurin says:

    thebetengine says:
    April 10, 2015 at 1:14 pm


    Revelation is a variant of an existing staking plan. TFE is capable of running that plan and the revelation variant.

    Would like to know the name of that plan and the variant. Do you mind to share?


  579. brokebookie says:

    I think all staking plans cross over in parts in one form or another, the beauty of the Revelation is that it seems to be designed especially for Footie Bankbuilder & Little Acorns and that’s why it works so well!. Where all the other staking plans on sale don’t seem to be designed or tailored around a specific systems strike rate so it leaves you guessing on whether it would work with your method or not? So i guess they must have researched the Little Acorns & Footie bankbuilders past strikes and patterns and then based a staking model around that. Does make sense when you think about it..

  580. rinti says:

    Brokebookie, revelation is not only good for this systems. It’s good for any laying system which lays selections under 2 and has a strike rate of at least 33 better 40+ %

  581. hrr says:


    Hi mate wouldn’t any lay calculator work with odds that low
    you can go up to about 10 loses in a row if your using 1% of the bank before you hit the wall 🙂

  582. rinti says:

    Thing is revelation can withstand way more than 10 Kevin.

  583. hrr says:

    rinti What i will do is build a lay calculator and show you what i mean mate ok the guys on my forum can have this for free too 🙂

  584. hrr says:

    rinti Yes but 1 win you will recover all the lose form up to about 10 or mate it may be more than 10 that was a ruth calculation in me head lol i will put one together and show you what i mean

  585. hrr says:

    rinti are you laying under 2.00:)

  586. hrr says:

    Rinti Whats your max lay odds

  587. rinti says:

    max lay odds 2.00 average about 1.85 probably

  588. larey12 says:

    @rinti and brokebookie – What’s the average ROI your making a month and how many bets do you usually place daily? Would be interesting to see how much more profitable the revelation staking is to the Fib staking plan.

  589. hrr says:

    rinti – Ok mate the way I can think with laying Under 2. 00 is chasing the win.

    We start off with a £200 bank betting 1%. Then each time we win the bank will go up 1% till we have 5 wins in a row. That would be 5% max of the bank.

    Then after 5% the bank stake will go to 1% and work its way back up to 5 wins.

    On a lost the stake will drop back down to 1% of the bank and stay there until a win

    That’s the only way I can think with out chasing a recovery loss

    What do you think? 🙂

  590. larey12 says:

    To answer my own question they have a formula where you can get an expected return. So if you were to use 1% of your bank, used 1/5 of a step and placed about 3 bets a day then from a £100 bank you could expect a profit of £6.65 in one month. This sounds a bit low as the Fibonacci staking plan would give a better return than this.

  591. rinti says:

    Revelation is said to earn more than Fibonacci – the more bets, the better it gets.

  592. larey12 says:

    Keep asking the question but what are people’s ROI with the revelation staking plan. First day today using the system with football bank builder and all three lost so not a good start.

  593. gerry747 says:

    larey12 – Hi, that’s a question no one can really answer mate, it’s a staking plan. So it all depends on your odds and how much you want to risk. Everyone will have different results.

  594. gerry747 says:

    larey12 – Going by your question, am I right in thinking this is all a bit new to you?

  595. larey12 says:

    @gerry747 – the football betting is new to me but I have done the rounds on the gee gees with regard to systems until I finally created one myself that works a treat. Just trying to expand my portfolio. Thought, maybe, someone had a rough idea on what they make on average but like you say ‘everyone will be different’.

    I don’t think I would have bothered with football had it not been for your posts gerry so thanks for opening my eyes to the possibilities.

  596. rinti says:


    If you have FBB you can address your questions to the creators, they know best how is the performance of revelation compared to Fibonacci. Sharing their answer with us will be appreciated.

  597. brokebookie says:

    I don’t measure on ROI i think some can get too obsessed with ROI, what matters to me is money in my pocket (or Betfair account). So since starting in Dec my bank has grown from £1,000 to £1,991 up to Saturday & that’s missing a week here & there due to other commitments. I’m going to get more serious with the Revelation now as it can handle drawdowns very well & slowly grinds up the bank. Also had some nice spin of systems of my own with it!

  598. larey12 says:

    @brokebookie – from what I can deduce from your posts that profit is also from just two lay selections a day – very interesting!

    Starting to get quite excited about the potential of this!

  599. rinti says:

    It’s not from 2 selections. He is running 2 separate lay instances, laying both outcomes close to 2 with revelation staking.

  600. larey12 says:

    @rinti – I thought brokebookie was probably using a £500 bank on each instance and took the profit from the two instances added together.

    Also rinti, rather than contacting the creators of the system I think I’ll just record my own results for a month operating the two staking systems side by side and then putting the results here for everyone to see.

  601. mathsman says:

    It has to be said this Revelation product is Top Draw!Surely this could earn a full time income for those that take it seriously enough! My bank is up 53% since January 10th and that’s with a few losing runs of 8 & 9!
    Now going to include the angle Rinti alluded to use in the BTTS market, or may lay both Over and Under 2.5 goals outcomes in 2 separate Revelation sequences with 2 different exchanges. Its going to a good summer I think!

  602. gerry747 says:

    mathsman – Your right it can earn a full time income and I’ve not been using Revelation. Approaching 25K backing and laying, and that’s for fun. Don’t know why some use different exchanges, when you can do everything on Betfair. All it needs is a bit of commonsense, a little effort and good money management, you could tell your boss where to go!….. 🙂 or maybe not!……

  603. gerry747 says:

    Just to think, no one looked at this thread for a year till I brought it up again, just think what you could have missed eh?…. 🙂

  604. bobo1977 says:

    Yes top man gerry747! I spotted the Revelation info from this thread and use it on laying the 2-0 set betting in tennis and layng around 1.70 mark and works a dream! I would love to use this more often and tell my gaffer where to go – Maybe one day!
    @mathsmen – what risk setting do you use, low middle or high?

  605. larey12 says:

    Would it not be just as safe and a lot easier to just place one bet with each revelation staking cycle and do this 3 to 4 times but with just one bank. So 3 bets/cycles would have
    £1 stake (1%) on each with just a £100 bank to cater for all them. That way you don’t have to wait around for the result.

    If I remember rightly I thnk gerry747 stated he just uses the one bank for all his systems.

  606. rinti says:

    mathsman, yes, you can make a fulltime income and the best of all is you can make it while travelling and sleeping 😀 bots.. people here know I love them 😀

    larey12 I run everything from 1 bank also, it does not over complicate things.

  607. mathsman says:

    @bobo1977 – i use the medium risk setting which suits me fine. I prefer to use on one game at a time and await outcome. But when i start laying both outcome then i will run multiple sequences to build profits faster as it really dosent matter what the outcome is and your going to win on one or the other! It really is neat how it can claw back and losses from losing runs.

  608. durango says:

    Can I get hold of the revelation without buying the system?

  609. durango says:

    that is do they sell separately

  610. rinti says:

    @durango email the vendors.

    In 2 months when bots release it you will be able to get it for free since most bots offer free trial.

  611. hrr says:

    rinti – BF can you upload CSV files it it Mate 🙂

  612. rinti says:

    Thanks Kevin. I should explore that function 😀

  613. brokebookie says:

    What is bots? Is it for revelation? As i emailed the Rev people and they said there is no plans for a BOT just yet so is someone copying the Revelation and inserting into their bot? If so seems a bit naughty to say so on an open forum!

  614. larey12 says:

    It’s the BF Bot Manager who incorporated the revelation staking system into their betting bot. Betengine also has this. I think all the bots will all eventually follow suit.

  615. larey12 says:

    Having said that I have been informed that they are developing more applications and angles for it. So, it gets even better!

  616. larey12 says:

    That’s the original vendors I mean not BF Manager so it’s still worth purchasing the calculator.

  617. brokebookie says:

    So does each user have to buy the revelation to run in their won BET ENGINE bot? If not arent Betengine making money off the developers work?? Bit below the belt for someone like betengine as i thought they were a credible outfit:(

  618. hrr says:

    brokebookie – HI Mate who owns the revelation staking system as its popping up all over the place

    I have been asked a few times to build this in to my systems but I can’t as this is someone else’s hard work …….. 🙂

  619. brokebookie says:

    I just got it from Andrew David who must be associated with the guy who developed it or they must have worked on it together from what i can gather. My first port of call would be to email him as i noticed the guy who i emailed about queries is called Jerome,It seems the Rev’s source must be ADK Publications then.

  620. rinti says:

    @brokebokkie nobody is making something out of the developers hard work.

    Revelation is plan that ready existed as it has been previosly mentioned, also it does not have copyright and you cannot stop anyone of implementing it that is also help of us – the users, still Betengine and bf bot manager will use other name instead of revelation I believe as that is fair.

  621. hrr says:

    @rinti – Hi mate what is the name of the existed one


  622. brokebookie says:

    I was told it was copyright when i wanted to build my own bot,hence my post tonights from others doing it, so betengine are literally taking someone else’s work, changing the name and passing it on as their own!!! That cant be right or ethical for the guy who developed it. Many give out on here if services copy tips and pass off as their own, yet this is allowed?? Mmmm?

  623. rinti says:

    @brokebookie have you checked the claims that it is copyrighted ? Have you seen the document ? I think you are making accusations to the owner of thebetengine which he does not deserve.

    @hrr I do not know it, @thebetengine does.

  624. hrr says:

    brokebookie you can’t copyright a function of a calculator you can copyright the name hope this helps 🙂

  625. rinti says:

    Also there is NO official version of any bot out there with revelation, so nobody has done anything yet.

  626. brokebookie says:

    Not seen document as such but just found i got mine from Canonbury so wouldnt want to be in the shoes of anyone that crosses them and its says Copyright Revelation Canonbury Publishing 2015.
    Anyway, its the moral part i am referring to here.. You have openly said betengine are changing the name and included the core theory of the Revaltion so in others words making someone else’s work their own and just changing the names. I know i wouldnt like someone to take my work, then change name and sell it off from an ethical point of view, nevermind legal. What next? Change name of footie bankbuilder and sell that as well as their own. Something not right here surely?? I never pursued my bot plans with Rev from a moral point of view but each to their own. so will leave it at that.
    BTW.. I made no accusations to owner of betengine?? If you look above it was someone else that said they are using Rev but changing name and that has been posted on a public forum..ouch!

  627. rinti says:


    I have not openly said anything, I do not work for any of the bots, so do not take my words as true, if you see closely there is one “I believe” not stating anything.

    I do not want my responses to harm reputation of the bots.

    Also revelation is only 0.01% of what the bots can do, so adding it it just an additional filter an another staking plan, they will not charge money for it.

  628. rinti says:

    About the moral point I agree with you, I would not be happy either. But what I believe the bot owners are doing is adding revelation just as an additional feature, this will not lead to increase in price so they are not trying sell the plan, just giving their customers one more option of a staking plan.

    This is just my view on the point and you may still consider that to be immoral which is your right.

  629. larey12 says:

    I think the real shame is that there is so so much rubbish out there that when something exceptional comes along like the revelation staking plan it just doesn’t seem right that the owner cannot copyright it and get his just rewards. He could have charged 10 times the amount and we would not have begrudged one penny of that because it actually works.

    Wonder what happens when it becomes freely available and then 1000’s of people start using it on the under/over 2.5 goals. Will it bump the odds up slightly?

  630. larey12 says:

    I think Jerome created the plan himself as he’s supposed to be a bit of a math genius. I would have thought had it existed before then why hasn’t anyone else heard about anything like this. I mean, something this good would have got some recognition, surely.

  631. TheBaker says:

    You cannot copyright an idea. Look how James Dyson’s technology has been adapted/incorporated into othe major brand vaccum cleaners. You cannot copyright betting over 2.5 goals on a Friday for all teams starting with the letter R. What you can copyright is the actual document that outlines the strategy,the written word produced by the author. The Labouchère staking system is an example of an original idea that is now freely available together with many others (Fibonnaci etc.) Similarly, the Revelation staking system will also become freely available and there is nothing that the vendors can do about it. The only safe way to safeguard a betting system/method/staking plan is to keep it to yourself for personal use. Put it on the open market for profit and you can’t complain if someone adapts it etc.

  632. mathsman says:

    @thebaker – I think you can copyright an idea to a degree it all depends on the % of how much the idea has been copied. As you say james dyson and his technology has been adapted etc, whereas at first glance alls they have done here is change the name of the Revelation (if that’s the case) and used the very same principle behind it so this case would be open to interpretation by the legal beagles and could go either way!.
    For example; my copy of revelation give written instructions and so if that’s copied then it is an infringement of copyright. In any case why would anyone want to copy other peoples hard work unless they were shysters profiting on the back of other peoples hard efforts?? They wont get any credibility for that so a bad business from them anyway!

  633. Maynard says:

    I used to work in copyright law.

    Firstly, copyright does not need to be applied for by a creator, because it naturally comes into being as something is created. It exists in civil law, which means that if someone infringes your copyright you must sue them, and prove that you created your work, and the time it was created.

    Secondly, an idea does not attract copyright, only the expression of that idea. For instance, if I created a racing system with a single rule which read: “Always back winners” then, if someone else later sold a system which read: “Always back winners”, I could sue them.

    However, if they created a system which read: “Never back losers”, I couldn’t sue them. That’s because, although the idea is the same, it’s expressed differently.

  634. rinti says:

    larey i think you are mistaking things, laying in the over/under is what FBB is not revelation, it is just a staking plan. So when/if it becomes freely available there will be changes in odds whatsoever.

  635. rinti says:

    will be No* changes sorry in odds. Revelation does not only work with fbb it works with any lay strategy with enough strike rate.

  636. bobo1977 says:

    Kofi Annan here (Noble Piece prize winner). This is easily solved without talking about copyright etc.
    Why dont the bot people contact the seller of Revelation and come to an agreement to work together??
    That way its a WIN/WIN for both parties! The bot people get the full support of developer/seller ongoing, and the Developer get his work known and a cut of sales or however they work it. How simple is that!. Betengine and the likes then restore their reputation (if as alleged they are copying the maths behind it) and just changing name. Everyones a winner! Cant they see that?

  637. rinti says:

    ^ My best guess is the bot owners do not want to increase the price of their bots because 1 staking plan is usually 0,01% of what their bots can do and for 1 plan it will not be worth it changing the price of the whole product.

    That is only a guess. From my experience and what I’ve seen this is today’s business world, very agrresive, if you cannot protect something and it’s good competitors will get it and use it and you can so nothing about it, morals do not win in court. This is for every industry.

  638. graham says:

    Kofi Annan, what a diplomat, sorted!

  639. bobo1977 says:

    @ rinti whether its an aggressive business world or not that stinks if they are openly taking someones method, well stealing it and making revenue from it no matter how small. Did they get permission to do so as a matter of decency i wonder? I would rather stick with the main developer as he deserves the fees!
    Or as i said why don’t they just work together for the benefit of us all and contact vendor, unless they have something to hide? This just brings the whole industry down….I think there should be a new thread on here – IS copying someones formula and changing name immoral?? Instead of; is gambling immoral – LOL!

  640. rinti says:

    @bobo1977 nobody has stolen something or made revenue out of it yet. There is No official version of any bot out there, all are just speculations and talks.

    As you know every story has 2 sides, if it can be proven that they did not invented revelation and it already existed, things will have a new look.

  641. 5aces says:

    Who is to say that the footie bank builder developers did not take the original method from somewhere and renamed it as part of their staking for their system? When I first bought footie bank builder many years ago it did not have the revelation staking. The original staking for FBB was to use fibonacci, that I believe is not theirs.

    For me as a bettor I would like to see it implement into a bot whether footie bank builder does it or someone else does it. Doing in manually at this moment does not fit into my lifestyle. Having a bot do it for me is wonderful and frees up my time etc. It can place my bets 24/7.

  642. bobo1977 says:

    My copy of FBB is copyrighted anyway so i doubt it somehow. Also its been openly stated here that Betengine has took the Revelation and changed name, so that’s clear evidence – in writing of bad practive whether legal or not! i have been in touch with Revelation peoples today and they said they are doing their own bot with add ons for backing and laying with revelation so i know who i’d rather give my money to – the original people, well it only makes sense as they will give more ideas ongoing seen as their baby..

    @rinti, are you the MR BETENGINE (apologies if not) if you are, then why dont you just get your heads together with sellers of Revelation & save all this needless debate anyway?? They answer all my queries and you could launch it together to help us all, which is the name of the game afterall. As i said earlier its a WIN/WIN – surely? 🙂

  643. hrr says:

    As I don’t purchase other vendor’s Software, as not to influence my own ideas/strategies. I can’t make out if the Revelation Staking Plan is in a PDF format or a Software. Can anyone answer this please? 🙂

  644. rinti says:

    @bobo1977 apologies accepted, because I am not. Betengine has official profile here.

    Hrr it is .pdf but since most people were not able to figure out how to use it properly, there is online calculator as well.

    bobo1997 what they are doing right now is actually Gerry’s idea backing and laying same selections, maybe he should sue them ?

  645. rinti says:

    To clarify last sentence, original FBB is laying, but Gerry747 suggested many months ago that backing and laying same selections with that strike rate with recovery staking which revelation is brings wonderful profits. And he did it for free and with everyone, now they are going to sell it.

    I know he cannot sue them, but the points is they are also getting ideas from somewhere.

  646. gerry747 says:

    Well this is going well, don’t know if I’m on a review site or in a lawyers conference!….:-) I’ve been chatting with Andrew David last couple of days, he says Revelation is not his product, it’s owned by another guy.

    bobo – Hi, Rinti is not the bet engine guy!.. we chat often mate.

    hrr- You get a page explaining the method, plus a calculator.

  647. hrr says:


    Thanks mate, I thought it might have been a PDF and had the idea of contacting the vendor to build this into a software and to distribute to those that have already purchased it from the vendor for free.

    As there is no need to reproduce it, Good going for the vendor for helping the customer out, I can now close the book on this as my skills are not needed lol! 😉

  648. gerry747 says:

    rinti – Yep, maybe I should consult my lawyer!…:-)

  649. hrr says:

    Hellooo gerry, long time no see 🙂

  650. bobo1977 says:

    @rinti – no there is a difference as i see it.Big difference. The Revelation clearly has an algorithm like all good staking plans do which someone said they are copying and changing the name of the Revelation and including it in their bot, thats the bit i find appalling. Its like sticking to fingers up to those that developed it. Gerry is operating a different method and has not said he is copying revelation and changing the name.

    So why don’t MR BETENGINE just email sellers and work with them and get info first hand along with any planned updates etc? Thats a puzzle to me as those selling it seem very approachable and may even welcome the input of bot programmers. Anyway its still a damn good product so far for me as well!

  651. gerry747 says:

    hrr- Hi mate, I’m still around, thought the bet engine guy would liked to have given his thoughts, as his name has been mentioned a couple of times!……

  652. rinti says:

    Bobo1977 why do not email him on his official email instead of asking question we cannot answer ? Also I remember the original post and I believe his intention were to protect the plan not to “stick it to the vendors”

    No, Gerry is not operating a different method, it’s exactly what you mentioned, backing and laying same with recovery staking.

  653. gerry747 says:

    rinti – How dare they!…. where’s my doughnuts!…

  654. bobo1977 says:

    So is Gerry selling the Revelation then Rinti as that what you said BETENGINE are doing and just changing name? Gerry from what i’ve read doesn’t appear to be? Yes there are lots of progressive staking plans but to copy one that a man has invented himself just seems a bit below belt. I just would of thought someone like betengine would have known better or contacted inventor first, or who knows maybe he/she has??? Not interested contacting betengine, i’m just not keen on those that pirate and then defend it by giving other industry comparisons. Its all wrong.

  655. rinti says:

    I have not said anything like that, you are getting my word out of context somewhere, or I have not expressed myself right.

    No, Gerry is not selling anything, he shares everything for FREE, the vendors are intending to be selling what he shared for Free.

    This thread is 659 comments long, in order to understand everything you will have to read them all, I have.

  656. gerry747 says:

    bobo1977 – Hi mate, I’m still trying to understand the bloody thing, never mind selling it!….:-)

  657. rinti says:

    Bobobobo1977, here is a short summary.

    This thread was dead, Gerry revived it asking us to take another look and many people bought FBB because of that.

    Then he shared he has his own version of the system because it’s strike rate matches perfectly. He explained to us that he backs and lays same selections with recovery staking and because of that they both end up in profit and he uses a bot to make it easier. The original vendors have never ever mentioned something like that before Gerry post here, which was probably 3-4 months ago.

    What I did is showed to people how they can do the same strategy with bot automated with screenshots with blacked out conditions to not give up rules of FBB and protect the vendors.

    Neither of us intended, or intends to sell something.

  658. gerry747 says:

    rinti – Let me get this straight mate, the vendors are going to produce a bot that backs and lays FBB? Yes?

  659. rinti says:

    @bobo1977 sorry for the longer name 😀

  660. rinti says:

    Gerry, I am not sure mate, but this is what I understood from bobo1997 words.

  661. 5aces says:

    If you read gerrys post somewhere above. He spoke to andrew david creator of fbb. He says revelation is someone elses. Who does the bot maker now contact?

  662. gerry747 says:

    Actually guys it doesn’t bother me if Andrew makes a bot for backing and laying. Andrew David is one of the nice guys among vendors. He’s refunded me in the past when he didn’t have to. Not that his product was no good, it was very good, I just didn’t have the time it needed to do it.

    You guys know how it works, it’s up to you if you do it manually using Revelation or even a new bot if it comes, the choice is yours. You’ve lost nothing really, and any newbie interested, well all the info is above near the top of this thread.

    I would be very surprised if they actually went ahead with a bot, as I know a guy who would quite happily show one already working and put it on MMR for free!….:-)

    Like I said Andrew is a decent bloke, you could do far worse as regards dealing with vendors!….

  663. larey12 says:

    Isn’t the core formula behind Revelation subject to copyright?

  664. rinti says:

    larey12 maybe @Maynard can answer that.

    If it is don’t they have to state how the formula works and aren’t the copyright documents available to everyone so everyone will see how it works ? I mean that can prevent bots from adding it, but everyone will know the plan..

    ^ Not sure of any of these words, so they may sound ridiculous to an expert 😀

  665. Maynard says:

    larey12 asks: “Isn’t the core formula behind Revelation subject to copyright?”

    It’s not the formula that’s subject to copyright, but the EXPRESSION of the formula.

    For instance, if a formula was 3 x 3 = 9, but someone expressed it differently – such as 3 + 3 + 3 = 9 – then no copyright would be broken.

    If Revelation is not sold by the originator as a bot, but someone incorporates the formula into a bot, copyright is not broken because the EXPRESSION of the formula has changed, from the way Revelation was sold by the inventor (say in the form of a manual) to its new format as a piece of software.

    However, all this is academic. In reality, to sue for copyright infringement will cost north of £150,000 if it gets to the High Court, and no-one but the rich and powerful will bother. Basically, if you put any racing system, staking plan etc on the market, you should fully accept that it will be ripped off.

    I’m not saying it’s right, I’m saying that it will eventually happen and, if you don’t want it to happen, don’t sell it.

  666. mathsman says:

    @gerry747: I agree Andrew david is probably the best person i’ve dealt with in this industry and that’s by a country mile!

    @5aces: there is a support email straight to the developer of revelation in the manual i found it at the bottom of the formula’s working doc, but i guess Andrew david manages it on behalf of developer. Either way they are both nice guys to communicate with.

    The way i see it is; Someone has designed a staking plan for use with Football Bankbuilder & Little acorns and so has done the hard graft & decides to sell it or gives it as a bonus. Then another party has taken that idea and plans to include it in their own bot or whatever without recompense to he who developed it? That’s bad karma for a start. The only winners are Andrew David (who I wouldn’t begrudge as his products are decent ones) and the Bot people. The biggest loser in this is he who has done the maths to make it work & actually done the work in making it happen – leaves a bad taste in my opinion.

    I would wager if the formula has been put down on paper then it can be copyrighted as its a ‘Formula’ unique to the maker unlike all other staking models such as Fib etc which are widely available and not unique to any specific purpose.

  667. Maynard says:

    mathsman says: “I would wager if the formula has been put down on paper then it can be copyrighted”

    You would lose your wager. NOTHING can be “copyrighted”. Copyright is not a set of documents you get from the patent office!

    *sigh* Haven’t you read a word I’ve written above?

  668. gerry747 says:

    Getting back to FBB, hit the 25K target today backing and laying with 3 matches, only took me just over 4 years, go for a pint now!….

  669. tm31874 says:

    @gerry747 – I must give this a whirl what youre doing!

  670. gerry747 says:

    tm31874 – Why not mate? if about 45% lose, then 55% must win! Just start with small stakes mate and let your bank build gradually!…..

  671. larey12 says:

    I’ve been monitoring every match that meets the criteria for football bank builder for the past 4 days and I have to say I’m not too impressed – well below 45% success rate, particularly on the ‘under’ 2.5 goals. Might just back the selections instead!!

    Oh well! early days – won’t form a judgement until at least 4 weeks of testing.

  672. tm31874 says:

    gerry747 – need a bot though I believe?never used one where do I start!

  673. gerry747 says:

    Backing and laying I haven’t gone above 5 losing bets on the bounce in the past week, which is a piece of cake for recovery betting. Probably even better for the Revelation plan. I think when you listen to people like brokebookie and mathsman and see how well they are doing apart from myself, it has more than proved itself it works. So maybe your problem lies elsewhere!..

  674. gerry747 says:

    tm31874- I use Betsender mate, can be hard work at times, have a chat with Rinti, OK!

  675. rinti says:

    tm31874 If you are willing to pay montly fee for a bot(not mine) i can give you complete free files to run the strategy gerry runs also it is completely automated.

    Also you can use Betsender as gerry does but it’s 100% automated, but the fee for the bot is only 1 time.

  676. rinti says:

    It’s probably time to go to bed 😀 Messing my own words.

    With bot with monthly fee I can provide you for free with files that run the strategy gerry does 100% hands free.

    There are bots with one-off fee but can only semi-automate the strategy, you need to make a choice.

  677. gerry747 says:

    Sorry the 10:32 post was for larey12

  678. tm31874 says:

    @rinti yes I would be interested mate thanks never used one before are the fees reasonable
    @Gerry thanks mate

  679. gerry747 says:

    tm31874 – No probs mate, just remember to use tiny stakes at first which you can do with a bot. You can bet as low as one pence, till you get confident enough OK.
    Gonna bed now mate, good night!….

  680. tm31874 says:

    @Gerry – thanks mate probably go with the one rinti suggests with a monthly fee like the idea of it being fully automated.going to bed myself!goodnight!

  681. rinti says:

    tm31874 this are the prices mate, you decide if they are reasonable.

    1 month £29.95*
    3 months £59.95* (equivalent to £19.99 per month)
    6 months £89.95* (equivalent to £14.99 per month)
    12 months £119.95* (equivalent to £9.99 per month)

    You get a 7 days free trial before paying anything.

  682. brokebookie says:

    @larey12 – even 4 weeks is not enough to form a judgment on FBB. I have been using it for ages & never let me down and with revelation onboard it works even better now!

    @maynard – i would imagine what mathsman meant was when you have a formula and put it down on paper it can have copyright protection. I am sure any unique work involving financial models can be copyrighted and indeed are copyrighted by default anyway if its their own work.

  683. Maynard says:

    brokebookie and mathsman, please read my post on this thread dated April 24, 2015 at 6:11 pm.

    All is explained.

  684. gerry747 says:

    “I’ve been monitoring every match that meets the criteria for football bank builder for the past 4 days and I have to say I’m not too impressed – well below 45% success rate, particularly on the ‘under’ 2.5 goals.”

    Right, that is what larey12 had to say above, now, where is the mention of doing the research, doing the filtering, checking the H2H on flashscore or soccerstats? seeing what teams score goals and teams that don’t. If he had filtered down, put a little effort and work into all those matches that fitted the criteria, he would have seen that percentage rate rise considerably.

    If we could just bet on every match with no work involved and win every time, there would be no bookies and we would all be rich. If you expect everything to be laid on a plate, and are not prepared to put an effort in, you will get no where.

    It really annoys me, because I know it works and so do others, you just need the right mindset and put the effort in if you want to succeed. Rant over!…. 🙂

  685. tm31874 says:

    Rinti – that’s reasonable enough I’m not the most technical but I’m sure I’d pick it up soon enough!

  686. TheBaker says:

    From The UK Copyright Service:

    “Copyright applies to a recorded work, it cannot apply to something as intangible as an idea. Within certain fields, (such as inventions) it may be possible to apply for a patent.

    Because copyright applies to the actual recorded work – documents, music, artwork, etc., if a competitor used your copyright work, (i.e. copied or adapted your promotional literature or stole content from your website to promote their own product), this would be an infringement and you could certainly take action, but there is little you can do to prevent someone else creating their own work based on a similar idea as long as they are not copying your work to do so.”

    That is not an opinion but the definitive statement from the authority that should know.

  687. brokebookie says:

    @The Baker – well looking at that then the Bot people have infringed copyright. Simply because they have copied the full concept of the Revelation and just changed name. Therefore if they were to adjust the Revelation to get around the copyright then by definition it wouldnt be the Revelation would it?? But some have said on here they are just changing name meaning they are using the full Revelation formula as was given to them in the tech manual. In other words they have copied formula word for word if it is to be the same as revelation.

    In any case as someone here said, why dont they just liaise with vendors and come to agreemen?. That would be the ethical way and would be better for them as the guy behind it would be willing to give tech support etc. Really puzzles me why they dont do this???

  688. brokebookie says:

    What are you trying to say Anthony? Dont touch edge racing? Only messing:0)

  689. Maynard says:

    brokebookie says: “they have copied the full concept …”

    But THERE IS NO COPYRIGHT in a CONCEPT, as I’ve already explained in my post my post on this thread dated April 24, 2015 at 6:11 pm.

  690. brokebookie says:

    OK Maynard the word concept might be wrong, but there has to be a mathematical equation behind the Revelation to make it work. So the developer has devised a formula that is of his own making. Therefore for someone to take that ‘formula’ exactly (as it would not be the Revelation if it wasn’t copied word for word) change name, and then sell it to promote their own products has to be of wrong doing whether legally or morally. Yes we know morally doesn’t stand up in court but it leaves a nasty taste and if i were them i would contact developer and ask for mutual agreement (They may have already done so of course). So why don’t we leave it at that and get on with building our banks so we can buy a small island in the pacific!!!!

  691. Maynard says:

    “So why don’t we leave it at that and get on with building our banks so we can buy a small island in the pacific!!!!”

    Sounds good to me 🙂

  692. mathsman says:

    I agree with brokebookie, the legal part is irrelevant. The revelation is been sold as a stand alone product and another vendor plans (allegedly) to copy it and include it in their product for the purpose of obtaining sales no matter how small it will add to their revenue. The man behind it must be livid!

    I agree Maynard a nice island for me too – Madeira would do me! Maybe after 20 years of using Revelation and starting with a £100,000- starting bank!

  693. tom42 says:

    ” The revelation is been sold as a stand alone product ”

    mathsman – where can I buy this stand alone product?

  694. tom42 says:

    Many moons ago a judge ruled that you could not copyright a few lines of computer code. Is this any different? Perhaps this discussion should be transferred to the ” is-making-money-from-gambling-immoral ” thread.

  695. tom42 says:

    as it is disrupting the FBB review.

  696. gerry747 says:

    tom42 – Email Andrew David at Cannonbury mate.

    IGI thread is closed mate!.. wake up!…:-)

  697. tom42 says:

    Closed ! How dare they!! Where else can I post my drivel!!!

  698. gerry747 says:

    tom42 – “as it is disrupting the FBB review.”

    You make me laugh, no body posted for about a year!…:-)

  699. rinti says:

    tm31874 says:
    April 25, 2015 at 9:28 am
    Rinti – that’s reasonable enough I’m not the most technical but I’m sure I’d pick it up soon enough!

    Anytime you decide, say, I will send you files + pics how to setup everything.

  700. tm31874 says:

    Rinti – your very kind be in next few days thanks mate

  701. brokebookie says:

    Yes Gerry747 i thank you!! You have rekindled the fire on whats possible. I have been using Revelation for a good few months now but your posts have really got me thinking of other possible angles for Revelation & Footie Bankbuilder etc Big cheers!

    @Tom42 – Whether its subject to copyright or not its bad that someone has copied it and selling it as part of their package without the developer even knowing about it!!! Wonders never cease!

  702. rinti says:

    I do not know why you keep saying someone is selling something, nobody is selling anything, there is no commercial version of bot with revelation, you cannot prevent people of building beta versions for themself.

  703. hrr says:

    The only time I would copy a system if someone done it to mine. But I would do the full hog. I would build there system in to a software and have the same name so everone would now what system it is, then give the copy cat system away for free thats the only time i would do this you have been warned lol lol shoud put this on me website lol 😉 fire with fire ……

  704. grdhood says:

    Revelation staking isnt the holy grail. I was going great guns with it and thought ‘where have you been all my life’! 58 bets later and with a decent strike rate of 41% I busted through my 100points bank! I longest losing sequence was only 6 games. In hindsight it realy does depend on the sequence of winnners that you get.

  705. rinti says:

    grdhood it does, with losing sequence only 6 you would have been way in profit with simple
    loss recovery, revelation requires winners in a row.

  706. iainmoran says:

    Not been on here for ages, but so glad to see Gerry back again. Just read this entire thread, wow!

    Well be purchasing FBB today and am interested in the bot you suggest Rinti. If I subscribe, how can I contact you for your kindly offered settings, etc?

  707. tom42 says:

    rinti isn’t that what grdhood just posted? If you don’t get these winners in a row it ain’t going to work is it?

  708. gerry747 says:

    rinti – Yep I agree, been doing some simulation bets, it’s not as good as people think in my opinion. Much prefer a simple loss recovery and you don’t need a better strike rate than what Revelation needs, especially with FBB!…

  709. rinti says:

    @tom42 yes my mistake, I though he needs some kind of confirmation 😀

    Yep if your strategy does not get into long losing runs, simple loss recovery can handle it better than revelation, all depends on the strategy.

  710. gerry747 says:

    rinti – Our thoughts seem to similar!… sometimes think your in our office, or you’ve got a spy cam setup somewhere!…. 🙂

  711. rinti says:

    Hahah, it may be both ! 😀

    “You don’t need specific sequences to win” that is from the creators sales page for revelation, sorry but you do. A losing run of more than 2 is only recovered with more than 1 winning bet in a row.

    Still it works very good for my strategies, because they tend to get into long losing runs but also into long winning runs 😀

    @grdhood I am surprised you were able to bust 100 points bank with 1 strategy ? Usually with revelation and FBB only 50 points can handle it, 100 points should handle it with ease.

  712. gerry747 says:

    grdhood – Yes I’m surprised you broke your bank with a 41% strike rate. If you look at the reviewers results, he only had 42% strike rate, and with a simple loss recovery it would have been easy to profit. Also he hit a losing run of 5 only once!… Think you was just unlucky!….

  713. grdhood says:

    I’m happy if anyone wants me to send them my spreadsheet showing the sequence. Can maybe point me in the right direction if Ive done something wrong?

  714. rinti says:

    grdhood I have no problem of doing that, but MMR will not allow us.

    Email the original vendors from which you bought the plan, they should help you identify the problem if there is one.

  715. grdhood says:

    I’ve just compared my sequence with other staking plans. The revelation was -85points down and with my next bet I would need to stake 33points. The extended fibbonaci was -4pts down and next bet would stake 3pts. The fibbonaci was +1.5pts and next stake would be 5pts.

  716. rinti says:

    If you can post your sequence here I can take a look, like a pic of winners/losers.

  717. grdhood says:


    any pointers would be great!

  718. iainmoran says:

    Hi Gerry, as mentioned earlier, really good to have you back on here again and thanks so much for all your wonderful advice.

    You mentioned that you were (are?) laying at £10 and backing at £5. With BetSender on Lay Recovery, you can enter a stake, but of course for Back Recovery, you can’t, just a target. So for backing, do you manually work out the target, so as to give you an equivalent of half your laying stake?

    Loading up the matches you want in BetSender is a bit fiddly to say the least. What do you find easiest? Using the Find Markets and deleting the ones you don’t want in the Find Markets window (there are 343 that come up today). Or do you, in the main window, go to Soccer fixtures, find the match you want, then select Over/Under 2.5 Goals and then choose either under or over, phew! Either way seems a lot of work, especially since you then have to open up another instance and do it all over again. Is there an easier way?

  719. grdhood says:

    Hi guys anyone run through this sequence yet to confirm how revelation spirals out of control?

  720. rinti says:

    grdhood the sequence I see should have made profit with revelation.

    Email original vendors you may not have used revelation right.

  721. gerry747 says:

    rinti – Yep that’s what I thought looking at his results. Shows though, you certainly need a sequence of winners for this to work!…. If you don’t get them, you could be in trouble. Simple loss recovery, although stakes may get higher, you recover quicker and with a decent strike rate that FBB usually has backing or laying, I prefer it to Revelation!…

  722. grdhood says:

    hi rinti thanks for looking. I’ve reread revelation and Ive done it correctly. The issue seems to be when in recovery and you are recovering middle losses rather than extremes. if you hit a series of losses when recovering the middle losses then the staking levels increase greatly. I’ll double check with vendor to see if there is a better solution when this happens. In the meantime I’m going to revert back to Fibbonaci.cheers

  723. tom42 says:

    @grdhood – what was the last result at 1.82 a win or a loss?

  724. grdhood says:

    tom42 it was a loss

  725. tom42 says:

    also I take it these were the prices you were laying at and also what do you mean by extended fiberachi –1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 then 55 89 144 etc.?

  726. grdhood says:

    Hi Tom42 yes these were the lay prices. The extended Fibonacci is another staking sequence which increases more slowly. It comes with one of the other products from vendor. There are 15 levels and total outlay is 156.5 points

  727. gerry747 says:

    grdhood – 156.5 points!….. that’s not a recovery, it’s a bloody heart attack!…. if you get that far, quit for the day, you’ll have far more winning days than losers!… don’t use extended mate, trust me. 🙂

  728. tom42 says:

    @grdhood thanks for your quick replies – will have a ponder – this may take some time!!


  729. grdhood says:

    yes gerry but you would have to get 15 losers in a row to bust it. It isnt recommended for FBB, I was just comparing it for curiosity. I had it in my head to maybe try it for the 2 steps back recovery plan

  730. gerry747 says:

    grdhood – In over 4 years of doing this, I used Fibonacci and straight loss recovery. I never went the full cycle of normal Fibonacci. My losses never went into double figures. It averaged about 5 losses maximum with a few above and below. Fibonacci and loss recovery handled it well. I prefer loss recovery of the two, you get all your losses and profit back in one bet. This is backing and laying, but the figures are about the same if your doing Matt’s version of just laying. Just remember, if it looks bad quit, there’s always tomorrow!..

  731. gerry747 says:

    grdhood – I see mate about the two steps back, good!..

  732. grdhood says:

    yes I’ve decided to go with Fibbonaci for now. With loss recovery do you mean adding all your losses in current sequence onto the stake for next bet?

  733. gerry747 says:

    grdhood – I use a bot, with a setting of 1, meaning the next bet that wins, it recovers all your losses and your profit. The bot does all the work and works out your next stakes etc. It also has a Fibonacci strategy on it as well!…

  734. hrr says:

    Hi Guys, try this calculator out it’s designed for laying at odds of 2.0 and under:

    I haven’t added a database for the ability to carry over to the next day yet, as i have put it on my forum in basic form to be tested and to receive any feedback from it before i continue.

    I have reversed the rule, instead of chasing the loss we chase the winner. So every time a Lay bet wins your bank stake will go up 1% of the bank, up to 5%. so if you have 6 wins in a row it will work its way up to 5% but will remain at 5% after this until you hit a loss. On a loss it will then revert back to 1% of the bank.


    5 bets today to lay

    1% of the bank on Bet 1 – 1.85 2nd W Profit 1.90
    2% of the bank on Bet 2 – 1.60 3rd W Profit 5.74
    3% of the bank on Bet 3 – 2.00 5th W Profit 11.60
    4% of the bank on Bet 4 – 1.70 1st L Profit 5.68

    Revert back to 1% of the bank

    1% of the bank on Bet 5 – 1.90 W 1% Total Profit 7.64
    and so on…

    Let me know what you guys think. 🙂

  735. gerry747 says:

    hrr – I like it better the other way, when you lose it should go up. I know, I’m just being awkward!….:-)

    See you managed to get up then!….

  736. hrr says:

    Gerry been out all day in the sun just got back now 🙂

    Yes but this way your not going to take a big chunk out of your bank on a loss try it in fun mode and let me know what you think 🙂

  737. gerry747 says:

    hrr – fun mode? now there’s a new one!…. even my bot hasn’t got “fun mode” 🙂 OK, will do!…

  738. hrr says:

    Gerry – 100.000 bot and it’s not go fun mode in it

    send it back mate and demand fun mode to be built in it lol 🙂

  739. larey12 says:

    Does anyone have any tips on some of the best extra filters to apply to the selections. After the telling of from Gerry I thought maybe the Betfair price wasn’t as good an indication of the true outcome as I was led to believe.
    I’m looking at the average goals scored on home or away and I’m looking at their last meeting together. Would like to find their last 5 meetings together but can’t seem to find the info for this.

    With regard to the Revelation staking system I was paper trading this and was choosing a quite a few selections which didn’t do very well – I didn’t use the first filter. I also put in selections for place laying on the horses. I applied this to the Revelation staking method and found that I kept hitting maybe 2 to 3 losses then 1 winner then a few losses then 1 winner etc..

    Without a short sequence of winners coming the stakes started to rise quite quickly which was a bit disconcerting. It seems to me that there is more chance of your stakes rising whilst relying on a sequence of winners than there is to recovering all or part of your losses on just the one winner.

    I found this was also the case when I was laying the horses. I thought spreading your losses on over, say, 4 bets the liabilities wouldn’t increase so quickly. But, those 4 winners on the trot become very illusive at times and the stakes got out of hand. Recovering a percentage of losses on the next winner was much safer and more reliable as there always seemed to be at least one winner(losing horse) popping up to clear the losses. If that one winner didn’t come up then that’s where a stop loss becomes absolutely necessary.

    I think the Revelation can definitely be improved on. For instance why not just recover the two lowest losses rather than their method. Wouldn’t this be a safer option? For now, I@m leaning towards the tried and tested Fibonacci sequence.

  740. thebetengine says:


    I have been away for a few days so am catching up on threads. I came across your post that says:

    “So does each user have to buy the revelation to run in their won BET ENGINE bot? If not arent Betengine making money off the developers work?? Bit below the belt for someone like betengine as i thought they were a credible outfit:(”

    Yes – you would have to have a copy of the Revelation Plan in order to activate it in the software. ADK Publishing have made it clear that this needs to be commercially licensed.

    We aren’t profiting from anyone else’s work and we ARE a credible outfit.

  741. thebetengine says:

    There are a lot of accusations flying around here – all of which are totally unwarranted.

    For the record:


    Is that clear enough for everyone?

    Anyone who wants to doubt this are happy to contact ADK Publishing – the owner of Football Bank Builder – and ask them. I made my position clear to Derek at ADK Publishing on the 11th April.

  742. gerry747 says:

    larey12 – Hi, just do a bit of research on the teams that fit the criteria as I said above. It’s not rocket science, just needs a little commonsense. You know if you need goals or not by your selections, so just look at the two teams past record.

    You can make good money with this, I did, the stats are on your side going back years percentage wise, good luck my friend!…. (telling off?… catch me on a bad day!) 🙂

  743. gerry747 says:

    larey12 – You will find their last 5 meetings in just go into the H2H at the bottom of the page!….

  744. brokebookie says:

    @larey12 – you must be using the Revelation wrong then as it knock spots off the Fibonacci sequence & less risky. The Rev is close to the perfect income retirement plan if used correctly! Why are you using it on the place market of horses? Its not for that so why are you using it on something thats its not been designed for:( Your doomed to fail! Unless you have a different copy to mine? You also said you dont use first filter for footie bankbuilder? Its little wonder your not getting the success you should be as you are not following the rules. With Revelation just email the developer i found him very helpful and put your questions to him as you are putting then to people on this forum who wouldn’t know as much as he would including myself…

  745. brokebookie says:

    @Betengine – it seems everyone was speaking on your behalf with mis information on this, and if you look at my threads i said ‘if’ betengine are copying etc etc. Anyway i thought BETENGINE wouldnt do that thats why i was puzzled. So apologies to yourself if it came across wrong.

    I still think you should contact the Revelation’s developer or sellers and get some link up on this that would help us all! In other words help each out for the common good as it were…

  746. gerry747 says:

    brokebookie – I know your doing well with this and with the Revelation, after all, it fits into FBB and Little Acorns well with it’s stats. But it has a flaw, if you did run into a sequence of winners wrongly, you would be in trouble, the stats show this mate, it is not as good as some think. Yep it seems to be steady and builds up gradually, but it doesn’t fit into my style of betting.

    Talking about the first rule mate, I’ve been doing this for years, it doesn’t make the slightest of difference to me as regards my results by not using it. In fact I get more games and bets through not using it. If it works for you, that’s all that matters, I think it’s just a bit of extra padding in the sales pitch, no more. Hope the success with this for you continues mate!…

  747. larey12 says:

    Ahhh! got it – thanks for that gerry!

    @brokebookie – I wanted to use a variety of selections just to see how the staking plan performed. I haven’t given up on it entirely as I do think there is scope for improvement which the vendors have stated is what they are currently doing.

  748. gerry747 says:

    Just been reading comments on the bet engine forum. I wish they would get their facts right.
    I said the “average” was about 5 losing bets on the bounce, with some over and some under. I never said it never went more than 5 losing bets!… I also said, ” it never went into double figures.”

    Anyway let them rant on there, I’m happy and if it makes them happy trying to pull it apart, let them get on with it!…… 🙂

  749. iainmoran says:

    How long dots or take to get a comment moderated here?

  750. gerry747 says:

    There are guys on here doing FBB like “brokebookie” he’s well on his way to a grand profit if he hasn’t made it already!… also there’s “mathsman” also doing very well. So you see you don’t have to take my word for it. They’re proving it does work if you put the effort in!…..

  751. Larey Emailonly says:

    gerry747 says:
    April 27, 2015 at 9:48 am
    larey12 – You will find their last 5 meetings in just go into the H2H at the bottom of the page!….

    Trying to locate the H2H. Can’t see it at the bottom of the page. What does this stand for?

  752. rinti says:

    I should have done that long time ago.

    Comparing results from FBB with the 1st filter and without, as Gerry does not use the 1st filter.

    Running 3 laying and 3 backing streams of both strategies, let see how it goes for 10 days.

  753. hrr says:

    rinti – What bot is that your using there mate it looks easy to use


    Been getting emails asking about bot’s and what’s the easiest one to use


  754. rinti says:

    @brokebookie do you use the first filter or not ? Or just use any selection that fits to be around 2 with both over/under ?

    Want to run a test of your version as well.

  755. rinti says:

    The same one you made the csv for Kevin 😀

    Bf Bot Manager is just a family of a lot of bots, on the pic is version V3.

    And yes it’s easy to use all is made with drop-down tabs, you need no excel or programming knowledge.

  756. hrr says:

    rinti Thanks mate i will email this to them and add this to the forum too 🙂

  757. gerry747 says:

    rinti – I’m sure brokebookie uses rule 1 and 2 he lays both around odds of 2.0

    Give me a good reason for rule 1? 🙂

  758. rinti says:

    I do not have one Gerry 😀 I just use it because it’s in the manual, there are no reasons for it in it.

    Without the first rule there will be more bets which can mean more profits, we will see the inital results in 10 days..

  759. gerry747 says:

    hrr Actually I think Betsender is the easiest to use, plus free updates, but doesn’t automate everything as much as BF bot. Having said that, it works out a lot cheaper than the rest being a one off purchase price. The others your paying every month forever!….

  760. gerry747 says:

    rinti – What you was on about earlier, you know!.. don’t think it’s worth the price mate, what you think?

    Wait for Kevin now, “what’s that all about?) 🙂

  761. rinti says:


    BF bot is a family of bots, so there is version V2 which can be purchased at one of fee of 89.95 pounds which is around betsender price I believe. With that version you get lifetime license and lifetime free updates.

    But the limitation is the number of strategies you can automate, if you want more you will have to pay monthly fee.

  762. gerry747 says:

    rinti – I see mate, missed that!….

  763. rinti says:

    Haha, with these “secret” messages we are sending Kevin has the right to be confused 😀

    It seems high to me as well Gerry, but if the points profit is true and it can be automated I think it will be worth it.

  764. hrr says:

    Gerry I have no clue about bots mate they won’t let me have an account to test them lol

    But with all bot they all do different things and some may needed up dating all the time and some may not that were the price range come in mate

    like me i need to update mine all the time that’s why i can’t do a lifetime license as it’s a full time job keeping all the systems running like clock work lol

  765. rinti says:

    hrr says:
    April 29, 2015 at 3:27 pm
    Gerry I have no clue about bots mate they won’t let me have an account to test them lol

    hm, how come that ? I mean for real, we can arrange something 😀

  766. hrr says:

    rinti – If i build bots mate all the bot heads would be out of business lol lol 🙂

  767. gerry747 says:

    hrr – Yep like rinti says, there is a way round it mate.

    rinti – I’ll have a chat with the guys, see what they say, OK? If Kevin wants to know, email him the link mate, I deleted it by mistake!….

  768. larey12 says:

    rinti – are you actually getting 3 selections everyday using filter one?

  769. rinti says:

    Okay Gerry, no problem, it has a refund policy after all, and we know he keeps his word.

    @hrr I thought you were willing to test a commercial bot and they were not giving you a license mate 😀

    Also building a bot that complicated can cost 5 going 6 figure number + a lot of dealing with Betfair 😀

  770. rinti says:

    larey12, I get way more than 3 selections, I just use 1st and 2nd filter automated with few streams. Some day you may not find 3 selections but rare days, there is a lot of football going on usually.

  771. hrr says:

    Gerry that email i sent you mate
    When i put the GFBB on the site they were all over me like a shot asking what API I’m using

    Then tried to put me in a bucket category.

    After i replied back and showed them how the system works and told them i don’t use their API and asked do they have a bucket with a hole in.

    That’s the category i would be in, they never got back 🙂